BFTG - Fulham

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John Madejski's Wallet
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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by John Madejski's Wallet » 13 Aug 2017 10:44

I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by genome » 13 Aug 2017 10:53

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.


The thing is, even with 10 men, Fulham are very dangerous on the counter (something we saw a couple of times in the second half). Pumping 50/50 long balls in the box increased the chance of them coming away with the ball and using their pace against our high defensive line. I expect Stam warned them against this and told them to stick to Plan A and be patient. Unfortunately, it didn't make for a very entertaining spectacle.

And it worked, we got the goal, looked comfortable, then cocked it up with a defensive mistake. It was disappointing, but shit happens. It was an improvement on last week, and hopefully we can keep improving.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by LWJ » 13 Aug 2017 10:57

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.

The problem I noticed yesterday was a lot of the time we had 2 players in the box, 2 on the wing the ball was being crossed from, 1 on the opposite wing and 2 outside the box. If we are to continue to play wing backs, we need to work on the opposite wing back making a run towards the back post when the ball is crossed. Fulham CBs had it easy most the game only having to concentrate on Mendes as the aerial threat.

I don't think it's a case of Fulham defended well, but it's not hard to defend when you play 414 and sit on the edge of the D tbf. Not every team playing us this year is going to play that way....

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by NewCorkSeth » 13 Aug 2017 12:37

LWJ wrote:
John Madejski's Wallet wrote:I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.

The problem I noticed yesterday was a lot of the time we had 2 players in the box, 2 on the wing the ball was being crossed from, 1 on the opposite wing and 2 outside the box. If we are to continue to play wing backs, we need to work on the opposite wing back making a run towards the back post when the ball is crossed. Fulham CBs had it easy most the game only having to concentrate on Mendes as the aerial threat.

I don't think it's a case of Fulham defended well, but it's not hard to defend when you play 414 and sit on the edge of the D tbf. Not every team playing us this year is going to play that way....

I thought, besides the positioning issue you mention, our crosses were pretty woeful. They werent aimed into any area in particular it was almost hit and hope. Mendes must be frustrated that the only impact he could make in that sea of Fulham players was the tap back for the goal. I though it was telling that our goal didnt come from a cross but rather a pass to our strikers feet. With Yann that game would have been much easier.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by John Madejski's Wallet » 13 Aug 2017 12:40

genome wrote:
John Madejski's Wallet wrote:I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.


The thing is, even with 10 men, Fulham are very dangerous on the counter (something we saw a couple of times in the second half). Pumping 50/50 long balls in the box increased the chance of them coming away with the ball and using their pace against our high defensive line. I expect Stam warned them against this and told them to stick to Plan A and be patient. Unfortunately, it didn't make for a very entertaining spectacle.

And it worked, we got the goal, looked comfortable, then cocked it up with a defensive mistake. It was disappointing, but shit happens. It was an improvement on last week, and hopefully we can keep improving.

It didn't work. At all.

When you are a team with among the worst defensive records in the division, nicking a goal against 10 men any not going for a second is not something to be positive about as a tactic.

I wasn't talking about playing long ball all game, but Fulham absolutely had the measure of how to defend against us. At least changing it up occasionally would have been nice.

At one point towards the end of the game we trying to slowly attack and we had 5 men back. 5. Against a tired 10 man team. If we are showing 10 men that much respect for the counter, we have serious issues


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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Gunny Fishcake » 13 Aug 2017 13:03

[quote="LWJ"]
Also Swift MOTM for me.

I presume you're related to him. He's a nice bloke but his performances going right back to the Fulham play off games have been shocking. Maybe he's tired after playing for England youngsters in the summer ? He's clearly out of form and lacking confidence so dropping him for a few games would not do any harm . If Quinn's fit perfect replacement.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2017 13:07

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.

But it worked. We scored. We were winning. The draw had nothing to do with ineffectiveness of our approach and everything to do with one completely unpredictable and silly fundamental mistake. Without it Fulham wouldn't have scored if we played all week and we may have snuck another.

This wasn't fannying around at the back putting us under pressure. It was one underhit pass in the middle of the pitch followed by panic and a good finish.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by LWJ » 13 Aug 2017 14:05

Gunny Fishcake wrote:
LWJ wrote:Also Swift MOTM for me.

I presume you're related to him. He's a nice bloke but his performances going right back to the Fulham play off games have been shocking. Maybe he's tired after playing for England youngsters in the summer ? He's clearly out of form and lacking confidence so dropping him for a few games would not do any harm . If Quinn's fit perfect replacement.

Feel free to provide something constructive to show why you disagree..... il put £100 on Swift having covered more distance than any other midfielder yesterday, and more tackles both successful and unsuccessful.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Gunny Fishcake » 13 Aug 2017 14:21

LWJ wrote:
Gunny Fishcake wrote:
LWJ wrote:Also Swift MOTM for me.

I presume you're related to him. He's a nice bloke but his performances going right back to the Fulham play off games have been shocking. Maybe he's tired after playing for England youngsters in the summer ? He's clearly out of form and lacking confidence so dropping him for a few games would not do any harm . If Quinn's fit perfect replacement.

Feel free to provide something constructive to show why you disagree..... il put £100 on Swift having covered more distance than any other midfielder yesterday, and more tackles both successful and unsuccessful.


Good debate, I personally think Swift is more a creative midfielder than a "grafter" I'm not doubting his work rate or ethic I'm just saying based on his last six or so games he's not been a shadow of the payer he was earlier last season. This was exemplified by his performance at Wembley in the play off final where he simply disappeared, but as did most of our team to be fair.


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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by lightning strikes » 13 Aug 2017 15:06

Not a terrible performance, one mistake cost us, but not a good performance either. For me buying an expensive striker wouldn't change a lot, we just aren't creating many chances. We need to go back to 4-2-3-1, that was when we were last playing well and ripping teams open. Playing 5-3-2 at the end of last season and start of this, I we have never created a lot of opportunities.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by SCIAG » 13 Aug 2017 15:17

ElmParkBloke wrote:SCIAG somewhere above says "That was a good game", and at the end of the game many people around me were actually applauding. But that was the most mind-numbing, boring, drivel masquerading as football I have seen in the fifty years I've been following this team. Well, I suppose it must be me then.

You're entitled to your views, but give me 20+ shots without much cutting edge ahead of the dozens of 0-0s I've seen where neither team could string a pass together.

That wasn't even the worst match at the Madejski this week.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by LWJ » 13 Aug 2017 15:20

Gunny Fishcake wrote:
LWJ wrote:
Gunny Fishcake wrote:

Feel free to provide something constructive to show why you disagree..... il put £100 on Swift having covered more distance than any other midfielder yesterday, and more tackles both successful and unsuccessful.


Good debate, I personally think Swift is more a creative midfielder than a "grafter" I'm not doubting his work rate or ethic I'm just saying based on his last six or so games he's not been a shadow of the payer he was earlier last season. This was exemplified by his performance at Wembley in the play off final where he simply disappeared, but as did most of our team to be fair.

You suggested Swift was tired from the u23 euros. That's my point in terms of distance and tackles. I feel he added that to his game, with a better forward Swifts game would show. Adding defensive tendencies is only improving himself


He was our best player pre season, QPR I agree, he disappeared. But yesterday in my opinion was at minimum our best midfielder...

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2017 16:26

LWJ wrote:
Gunny Fishcake wrote:
LWJ wrote:Feel free to provide something constructive to show why you disagree..... il put £100 on Swift having covered more distance than any other midfielder yesterday, and more tackles both successful and unsuccessful.


Good debate, I personally think Swift is more a creative midfielder than a "grafter" I'm not doubting his work rate or ethic I'm just saying based on his last six or so games he's not been a shadow of the payer he was earlier last season. This was exemplified by his performance at Wembley in the play off final where he simply disappeared, but as did most of our team to be fair.

You suggested Swift was tired from the u23 euros. That's my point in terms of distance and tackles. I feel he added that to his game, with a better forward Swifts game would show. Adding defensive tendencies is only improving himself


He was our best player pre season, QPR I agree, he disappeared. But yesterday in my opinion was at minimum our best midfielder...

I got the feeling he could have done a lot of damage in that game 11 v 11 with Fulham doing something other than camping around their 18 yard line and condensing the pitch into a tiny spaceless place.


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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Victor Meldrew » 13 Aug 2017 16:46

Gunny Fishcake wrote:What a load of f*cking sh*te.....I don't care what reputation and pedigree Stam has, but if he doesn't have the ability or knowhow to change a teams tactics when Fulham gets a player sent off after 33 seconds then what chance have we got.

This bollox about passing the ball sideways and backwards all the time is not only boring but it's not remotely entertaining totally unproductive and woeful to watch.

I thought last week was bad but this was arguably worse playing ten men for effectively 90 minutes. What in gods name has happened to Swift , he's been shocking for a while now and looks like a ghost of a player . He and Evans are very similar and simply create nothing. Barrow looks promising but the rest are a simply dreadful at present.

I feel totally despondent and angry , we're clearly going nowhere unless there is a quick miracle of a change of style.

Possession does not wins footballs matches, scoring goals does. We've not got the players or ability to play like Barcelona . Just get the bloody ball forward quicker and in the box please then we may create chances and maybe score some goals !


I agree about Stam yesterday.
We were talking about a game at Elm Park when Stoke had a player sent off and we ended up putting 4 past them.
That was in the McGhee era when we passed the ball but to greater effect and so much quicker using the full width of the pitch.

A big error on Stam's part IMHO by not taking off Blackett in the first half and bringing on a proper wide player/ winger Popa being the obvious choice and keeping him and Barrow out very wide thereby stretching the defence.
We didn't need 4 centre-backs on the pitch.

On the individual players, does George Evans actually do anything?
He is not a great passer, is average in the tackle and scores very few goals.
Mendes and Joey look like pub players and after Wembley I thought Stam would realise that his big mate is a liability.
Also what a pathetic attempt by Gunter to stop that eqyually weedy player Piazon although in fairness Joey was the instigator.

I thought Barrow played well and that Kelly put a lot into the game and thoroughly deserved his well-taken goal.
Also one really good finger-tip save by Mannone.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2017 17:00

I also remember when we failed to score against 9 man Yeovil.

Not every game is the same. You don't have an automatic right to win just because of a sending off. And I'll say it again. The only way Fulham were going to score was with a catastrophic mistake. And the one that occurred had nothing to do with the system. Plan A worked, because we scored, and in fact crafted several chances to do so.

Too many people are getting way too caught up in the result, ignoring the freak nature of their goal and forgetting all about the performance. Which was good.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by windermereROYAL » 13 Aug 2017 17:01

Victor Meldrew wrote:
Gunny Fishcake wrote:What a load of f*cking sh*te.....I don't care what reputation and pedigree Stam has, but if he doesn't have the ability or knowhow to change a teams tactics when Fulham gets a player sent off after 33 seconds then what chance have we got.

This bollox about passing the ball sideways and backwards all the time is not only boring but it's not remotely entertaining totally unproductive and woeful to watch.

I thought last week was bad but this was arguably worse playing ten men for effectively 90 minutes. What in gods name has happened to Swift , he's been shocking for a while now and looks like a ghost of a player . He and Evans are very similar and simply create nothing. Barrow looks promising but the rest are a simply dreadful at present.

I feel totally despondent and angry , we're clearly going nowhere unless there is a quick miracle of a change of style.

Possession does not wins footballs matches, scoring goals does. We've not got the players or ability to play like Barcelona . Just get the bloody ball forward quicker and in the box please then we may create chances and maybe score some goals !


I agree about Stam yesterday.
We were talking about a game at Elm Park when Stoke had a player sent off and we ended up putting 4 past them.
That was in the McGhee era when we passed the ball but to greater effect and so much quicker using the full width of the pitch.

A big error on Stam's part IMHO by not taking off Blackett in the first half and bringing on a proper wide player/ winger Popa being the obvious choice and keeping him and Barrow out very wide thereby stretching the defence.
We didn't need 4 centre-backs on the pitch.

On the individual players, does George Evans actually do anything?
He is not a great passer, is average in the tackle and scores very few goals.
Mendes and Joey look like pub players and after Wembley I thought Stam would realise that his big mate is a liability.
Also what a pathetic attempt by Gunter to stop that eqyually weedy player Piazon although in fairness Joey was the instigator.

I thought Barrow played well and that Kelly put a lot into the game and thoroughly deserved his well-taken goal.
Also one really good finger-tip save by Mannone.


Actually Stoke had 2 players sent off when we stuffed them 4-0. and yeovil finished the game with 8 players for the above post.

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Snowflake Royal » 13 Aug 2017 17:15

:lol: I always wonder if it was three and think, nah, couldn't have been. That would be ridiculous.

Just watched the highlights. I'm going to get stick for this, and I admit that bias is certainly involved. But here goes.

oxf*rd Gunter. Useless oxf*rd Gunter. On his heels for the terrible Berg pass and then doesn't have the bottle to step up and just take the man out for the maybe yellow, probable red card. Guaranteed three points if he wipes Piazon out. Alternatively, he could have tried to stand him up or track the run to put pressure on. But no, he runs in and goes to ground without making any contact at all. This in no way excuses the dreadful pass.

He then follows this up (something I'd not bothered complaining about before, but seeing as I'm on a Gunter rant, in for a penny in for a pound, eh), by in the last couple of minutes demanding the ball off of McShane and then immediately passing it straight back to him under no pressure when he could have run 5-10 yards up the pitch or made some effort to pass forward. All game he did his usual control back inside and pass sideways or backwards. This moron seriously slows down and damages our attempts to move the ball and stretch the opposition. And then most of his crosses were hopeful undirected punts roughly into the box rather than any effort to pick someone out. On the few occasions he did seem to try to pick someone out (like in the build up to our goal) it went no where near them.

Argh! oxf*rd off somewhere else!

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by Gunny Fishcake » 13 Aug 2017 17:22

Snowflake Royal wrote:oxf*rd Gunter. Useless oxf*rd Gunter. On his heels for the terrible Berg pass and then doesn't have the bottle to step up and just take the man out for the maybe yellow, probable red card. Guaranteed three points if he wipes Piazon out. Alternatively, he could have tried to stand him up or track the run to put pressure on. But no, he runs in and goes to ground without making any contact at all. This in no way excuses the dreadful pass.



Micky Gooding said exactly that after game, Gunter should have "taken one for the team" a booking or even a red would have been better than his pathetic attempt to stop Piazon

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by genome » 13 Aug 2017 17:32

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:
genome wrote:
John Madejski's Wallet wrote:I'm not understanding the Swift-bashing either. Thought he was half decent yesterday tbf

The thing that really got me was sticking to the slow possession planA when they had everyone behind the ball. Even if we'd tried pumping a couple of high balls into the box just to mix it up and try and make our extra man count there, that would have at least shown something.

The "well they defended so it was difficult for us to win playing our preferred style" is almost an acknowledgement that we are a team who have no tactical nouse, no planB, and tells everyone else exactly how to stop us.


The thing is, even with 10 men, Fulham are very dangerous on the counter (something we saw a couple of times in the second half). Pumping 50/50 long balls in the box increased the chance of them coming away with the ball and using their pace against our high defensive line. I expect Stam warned them against this and told them to stick to Plan A and be patient. Unfortunately, it didn't make for a very entertaining spectacle.

And it worked, we got the goal, looked comfortable, then cocked it up with a defensive mistake. It was disappointing, but shit happens. It was an improvement on last week, and hopefully we can keep improving.

It didn't work. At all.

When you are a team with among the worst defensive records in the division, nicking a goal against 10 men any not going for a second is not something to be positive about as a tactic.

I wasn't talking about playing long ball all game, but Fulham absolutely had the measure of how to defend against us. At least changing it up occasionally would have been nice.

At one point towards the end of the game we trying to slowly attack and we had 5 men back. 5. Against a tired 10 man team. If we are showing 10 men that much respect for the counter, we have serious issues


Can't figure out your logic here. We had the lead, and were comfortable. If you have a traditionally bad defensive record, keeping the ball is the best way to defend against a team who are strong on the counter... :?

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Re: BFTG - Fulham

by CountryRoyal » 13 Aug 2017 17:45

Snowflake Royal wrote::lol: I always wonder if it was three and think, nah, couldn't have been. That would be ridiculous.

Just watched the highlights. I'm going to get stick for this, and I admit that bias is certainly involved. But here goes.

oxf*rd Gunter. Useless oxf*rd Gunter. On his heels for the terrible Berg pass and then doesn't have the bottle to step up and just take the man out for the maybe yellow, probable red card. Guaranteed three points if he wipes Piazon out. Alternatively, he could have tried to stand him up or track the run to put pressure on. But no, he runs in and goes to ground without making any contact at all. This in no way excuses the dreadful pass.

He then follows this up (something I'd not bothered complaining about before, but seeing as I'm on a Gunter rant, in for a penny in for a pound, eh), by in the last couple of minutes demanding the ball off of McShane and then immediately passing it straight back to him under no pressure when he could have run 5-10 yards up the pitch or made some effort to pass forward. All game he did his usual control back inside and pass sideways or backwards. This moron seriously slows down and damages our attempts to move the ball and stretch the opposition. And then most of his crosses were hopeful undirected punts roughly into the box rather than any effort to pick someone out. On the few occasions he did seem to try to pick someone out (like in the build up to our goal) it went no where near them.

Argh! oxf*rd off somewhere else!


Must be thinking of someone else. Chris Gunter is an international with tonnes of caps and consistently selected by manager after manager.

You're describing someone crap, that can't be our Chris.

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