RUMOUR - Lewis baker

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Hendo
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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Hendo » 10 Jan 2019 18:49

leon wrote:
Whore Jackie wrote:
Hendo wrote:
2 best loan signings were:

Matthew Upson
Glen Little


Little was really average on his loan spell. He even admitted as much at the FPA night last year. No doubting his pedigree once he signed mind.

Upson was different class. Upson and Glenn Murray have been arguably the two best loan players we never signed. :cry:


Agreed on Little and Upson and Murray.

No sure anyone's mentioned Ryan Bertrand - who was excellent. He came 3rd in player of the season behind Gylfi and Kebe. Which demonstrates how good he was.


Totally forgot about Bertrand, he was very good.

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tmesis
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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by tmesis » 10 Jan 2019 19:12

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:So it points towards getting in players with clever movement and the ability to carve up opponents. Rather than using classic wing play of stretching the play, beating your man and putting a ball into the box.
Barrow can beat players using pace but thats about it.

These days they are incredibly few true wingers left anywhere. You certainly struggle to find ones who can beat a man with skill rather than just pace, and very few can put in a decent cross while running.

The days of a genuine wide man like Glen Little, able to turn the fullback to get half a yard of space to put a cross in, or even a Michael Gilkes who, while mainly about speed, could be relied on to arc a ball to the far post with regularity, are gone.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Hoop Blah » 10 Jan 2019 20:17

tmesis wrote:The days of a genuine wide man like Glen Little, able to turn the fullback to get half a yard of space to put a cross in, or even a Michael Gilkes who, while mainly about speed, could be relied on to arc a ball into the Tilehurst End with regularity, are gone.


True.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by 3points » 10 Jan 2019 21:54

Snowflake Royal wrote:Putting Barrow at No 10 is something I've thought about and suggested for a while, though less so since he's been rubbish this season.

It'd get him out of most of the defensive duty in our half he doesn't do anyway.

Have thought Barrow would be great in the 2 in a 3-5-2 formation

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Re: Confirmed Lewis Baker on Loan

by Zip » 11 Jan 2019 00:19

paultheroyal wrote:
leon wrote:
Zip wrote:
The options have been poor. Rinomhota has improved things but Swift remains an enigma. Will we see Ezatolahi play for us again? For now this looks our strongest midfield if all three are available.

Nothing sums up our midfield more than the erratic performances of Leandro Bacuna. His passing is so inconsistent. Every game he mixes good passes with dreadful ones. Kelly has shown a better attitude in recent appearances. He has at least worked harder but lacks creativity.

It says an awful lot that our mediocre midfield has been the least of our problems this season.


I would say midfield is absolutely our biggest problem this season. It cant stop the opposition and can’t create.

Yeah defence has been shit but if you’re a full back trying to defend against two players when the guy in front of you is doing fcuk all or a centre back constantly having midfielders running at you through the central midfield unmolested you’re going to struggle.

No one bar Rinomhota can do their job properly.

Edit: so maybe we’re replacing Swift and Kelly with these lads.


Some sense and realism at last.


Our midfield can’t do much about Mannone letting a shot under his body. McShane lunging in to concede two pens in the same match, the hopeless confusion between Moore and Ilori allowing a Norwich player ( I think it was Norwich) to run through and score, the complete failure of Ilori to position him properly time and time again and for goals to be regularly conceded from corners because neither of our centre half’s or keeper can command the six yard box.

Our defence has been bloody awful this season and along with our wingers the primary reason why we are in deep trouble.


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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jan 2019 08:42

The entire side has been terrible zip.

Defence has been disorganised and error prone no matter who was in it.

Midfield has been weak and inconsistent, not protecting defence. Rinomhota the only exception. Kelly's been weak, Swift's been terrible defensively, Bacuna has varied from great to abysmal, Meyler worthless.

Midfield has also failed to create enough chances or be positive enough

The wings have produced sod all and the strikers don't get in enough good positions or pull the trigger and score enough.

Plus the keeper has been soft.

Adding a couple more soft attacking options in midfield will no more solve our problems than signing a big goalscorer or a big brute of a CB. We need improvements throughout the team.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Hound » 11 Jan 2019 08:57

Fair - been pretty rubbish in all positions. Mentally been horribly weak as well

Can barely remember a game when we’ve got anything after going 1 down

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Coppells Lost Coat » 11 Jan 2019 09:48

tmesis wrote:
Coppells Lost Coat wrote:So it points towards getting in players with clever movement and the ability to carve up opponents. Rather than using classic wing play of stretching the play, beating your man and putting a ball into the box.
Barrow can beat players using pace but thats about it.

These days they are incredibly few true wingers left anywhere. You certainly struggle to find ones who can beat a man with skill rather than just pace, and very few can put in a decent cross while running.

The days of a genuine wide man like Glen Little, able to turn the fullback to get half a yard of space to put a cross in, or even a Michael Gilkes who, while mainly about speed, could be relied on to arc a ball to the far post with regularity, are gone.


Agree. Only through trends in formation though. When 442 becomes trendy again we'll see decent wide players.
Also much easier to put a CF with pace out on the wing to suit what the manager wants than bringing in a new player.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by tmesis » 11 Jan 2019 19:01

Coppells Lost Coat wrote:
tmesis wrote:
Coppells Lost Coat wrote:So it points towards getting in players with clever movement and the ability to carve up opponents. Rather than using classic wing play of stretching the play, beating your man and putting a ball into the box.
Barrow can beat players using pace but thats about it.

These days they are incredibly few true wingers left anywhere. You certainly struggle to find ones who can beat a man with skill rather than just pace, and very few can put in a decent cross while running.

The days of a genuine wide man like Glen Little, able to turn the fullback to get half a yard of space to put a cross in, or even a Michael Gilkes who, while mainly about speed, could be relied on to arc a ball to the far post with regularity, are gone.


Agree. Only through trends in formation though. When 442 becomes trendy again we'll see decent wide players.
Also much easier to put a CF with pace out on the wing to suit what the manager wants than bringing in a new player.

The problem is that doing that, in itself, won't work. The way we've put pace on a pedestal in this country means that we've now got loads of very quick wide midfielders favoured for their ability to run past a defender, not for their ability to put a decent cross in, let alone a cross while running.

They've also lost the ability to beat a player with skill, so the moment they come up against a team defending deep they are next to useless, as there's no space behind them to run into. The art of making space by wrong-footing the fullback has almost gone.

Some of it might be down to how free kicks are given for any contact in the modern game. Players no longer need to be able to evade challenges, as getting a free kick is often seen as more desirable than actually getting past the man.


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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Ascotexgunner » 11 Jan 2019 20:04

Hound wrote:Fair - been pretty rubbish in all positions. Mentally been horribly weak as well

Can barely remember a game when we’ve got anything after going 1 down


That's because its over 40 games since we have come from behind and won and in those 40 games we have only come back 8 times to draw......

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by 72 bus » 11 Jan 2019 22:07


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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by leon » 12 Jan 2019 00:49

WHY IS THIS THREAD NOT CONFRIMRED?

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Zip » 12 Jan 2019 00:51

leon wrote:WHY IS THIS THREAD NOT CONFRIMRED?


BECAUSE IT AIN’T lEON.


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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by Lower West » 12 Jan 2019 00:59

leon wrote:WHY IS THIS THREAD NOT CONFRIMRED?


Threads were merged.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by windermereROYAL » 12 Jan 2019 01:28

leon wrote:WHY IS THIS THREAD NOT CONFRIMRED?


Because there is no such word.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by leon » 12 Jan 2019 01:52

IS NOTHING SACRED?

MODS - DO YOUR JOB

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by leon » 12 Jan 2019 02:02

Victor Meldrew wrote:Some decent loans from Chelsea previously in Chalobah, Ake and the unforgettable David Lee but then we also had Piazon.


Bertrand - why does everyone forget him? Best loan we ever had.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by LightwaterRoyal » 12 Jan 2019 08:50

I'm surprised that Andy Griffin, Mikele Leigertwood and Zurab Khizanishvilli don't get more credit when it comes to our best loans. Took us from Relegation favourites to play off contenders.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by SCIAG » 12 Jan 2019 09:18

tmesis wrote:
Coppells Lost Coat wrote:
tmesis wrote:These days they are incredibly few true wingers left anywhere. You certainly struggle to find ones who can beat a man with skill rather than just pace, and very few can put in a decent cross while running.

The days of a genuine wide man like Glen Little, able to turn the fullback to get half a yard of space to put a cross in, or even a Michael Gilkes who, while mainly about speed, could be relied on to arc a ball to the far post with regularity, are gone.


Agree. Only through trends in formation though. When 442 becomes trendy again we'll see decent wide players.
Also much easier to put a CF with pace out on the wing to suit what the manager wants than bringing in a new player.

The problem is that doing that, in itself, won't work. The way we've put pace on a pedestal in this country means that we've now got loads of very quick wide midfielders favoured for their ability to run past a defender, not for their ability to put a decent cross in, let alone a cross while running.

They've also lost the ability to beat a player with skill, so the moment they come up against a team defending deep they are next to useless, as there's no space behind them to run into. The art of making space by wrong-footing the fullback has almost gone.

Some of it might be down to how free kicks are given for any contact in the modern game. Players no longer need to be able to evade challenges, as getting a free kick is often seen as more desirable than actually getting past the man.

Must admit I'm not seeing this at all. If anything, I think our obsession with copying Spain and Germany means we increasing produce a lot of very technical attacking midfield types and fewer genuine wingers. Look at the World Cup squad for example - only one winger and he ended up playing as a striker.

There's now generally much less emphasis on pace and slinging it into the big man, and much more emphasis on finding and exploiting space, tactical use of the ball, and looking for the killer pass. This is the era of Alli and Lingard, not Walcott and Agbonlahor. Or in our own youth system, the U23 wingers are a Josh Barrett, who makes Caskey look like Kebe, and Tyler Frost, who is like a technically gifted Andy Hughes.

So sure, wingers don't spend as much time lobbing crosses in any more (Leicester are the big exception, and Albrighton and Gray are excellent traditional wingers), but that's because of emphasising technicality and tactical intelligence, not fetishising pace.

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Re: RUMOUR - Lewis baker

by tmesis » 12 Jan 2019 11:30

Whatever the reason, my point was you can't just push players out wide and expect them to play like traditional wingers. Players don't (in general) have that skill set any more.

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