Wing Backs and the 3-5-2

[PistolPete]

Guthrie is not a DM

That's your opinion, and has been discussed at length above.

[PistolPete]

Problem with 352 formations, at least in this country, is no one knows how to play the sweeper role properly. 352 ends up being 532 with a flat back 5 and the midfield being overrun.
More importantly for us is that we had no width last season even when fielding a team with 5 wingers so I'd h8 to see us with none.

So on that logic we ought to either play more or none, because last seasons 5 wingers didn't work What's it to be?

Seriously though, width in the 3-5-2/5-3-2 comes from the flexibility. Defensivley the 3 central defenders slide across so there is still 2 in the centre and one helps out the (now) full back. When attacking the 2nd striker or nearest midfielder helps out...

[Simon's Church]

Onky problem is you need a tactically astute manager and a good coach implementing it for it to work

[kwik-silva]

I actually wrote a blog exactly on this. I think the problem with the 3-5-2 to us is that if one CB gets injured then who will come in? Plus we lose the wingers that have been crucial to our play for (at least) the last decade.

4-2-3-1 or just a 4-4-2 for me I think.

[Ian Royal]

I'm not so sure we'd need an extra centreback. We've got Sweeney and Cooper coming through the ranks and Gunter has some experience there (although he then leaves a whole on the right flank and I'm not sure I'd trust McCleary to do the defensive work... or Cummings the attacking (on his own)... Blackman maybe. Has Kelly played CB before? He strikes me as a possible in a three man defence. I think Karacan could also make an effective wing back, but then he clearly wants to play in midfield and that removes an option from one of our potential strong points.

Agree with the idea you don't need a midfield tackler to do well. Close the opposition down and hassle effectively and they'll just give you the ball through making a mistake. Certainly at this level.

[Royal Ginger]

Williams has played best when he's been given a bit of freedom and doesn't have to worry too much about what's going on behind him. Karacan plays best when he's got a solid defensive partner, and Guthrie's best is when he has runners to pick out. All are top class Championship players, but are they a unit who will play well together and could they work a 3-5-2? I'm not so sure. If we had a solid DM who could fill the hole that Ledge left, i could see that player sitting deep alongside Karacan with Guthrie & Williams interchangeable depending on whether the game calls for surging runs or wing play.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Wasn't Williams bought as a defensive midfielder who can play centre back?

[Royal Ginger]

I can only find press from the time of his signing referring to him as a midfielder, but I do recall him generally being referred to as a defensive midfielder. He's certainly played some good games in that roll but he's wowed us all most when he's got forwards.

[EarleyRoyal16]

Hate the idea of the 3-5-2. Appears to be the new trend at the moment among the top teams and managers. We can't afford to lose our wing play, Gunter and Obita could both play wing back roles rather well but it practically eliminates the place of players like McCleary, who's obviously a very significant attacking threat. Probably best if as a club we stick to the more traditional 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 mainly to accommodate the wing play and the role of a "number 10" as we have so much talent in both aspects. Especially in the youth looking towards the future. We do need a new winger though, Obita is now a full back full time in my opinion.

[JakeTheRoyal]

I would love us to play a 4-3-3 high tempo, high pressing, quick one touch passing, getting the ball wide into McCleary, Obita etc. Our current squad would suit that the only problem is, our lack of pace at the back would see us caught like last season. Which is why I would like to see Hector at the back with either of the two donkeys we normallu play

[melonhead]

Guthrie is not a DM

That's your opinion, and has been discussed at length above.

no. its simple basic upper case FACT

[6 Million Dollar Man]

I'm a big fan of 3-5-2, and have been since Reading used it very successfully in 1995, and almost reaching the Premier League. Trouble is, the players we had then were arguably better than what we have now, and I'm not sure how long it would take to adapt

[PistolPete]

Guus Hiddink said in an interview...

Is there any formation you feel is more efficient than the rest?
4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-3-3… whatever formation you end up playing, for me it is always a question of what you do as a team and, as a consequence, how individuals interact: what position you take when you have the ball, your first intention when you’re in possession. These are the key elements for a football team, not formation as such.

So, do you fit players to formations, or formations to the players?
For sure, the formation I use depends on the players I have. If I play with one striker it doesn’t mean I prefer one striker. If I have three good strikers I’ll try to use them all.

How and when do you decide to play three or four at the back?
It depends on the opponent – and then on the defenders and their habits. If, for example, as youngsters they were used to playing three at the back, it can be hard for them to fit into four at the back.
For some players it really is a big problem to change from one formation to another. You have to be very careful if you want to change things radically, especially with the national team – when you don’t really have enough time to practise a lot or teach them how to play differently from what they’ve been used to playing at their clubs.

So the pro's and cons of this argument remain in the balance again as far as I'm concerned.

Pros
We have 3 quality central midfielders
We have fantastic youth central midfielders who need to play games and 2 along side them would help
We have full backs who can attack and are mobile
We have very few fit and available wingers
We have a good combination of central defenders to play 3 at the back

Cons
We have ONLY 3 defenders so if one is injured we're having to make do (unless we can buy/loan a fourth)
It is an unknown how the defence will adapt to having to cover space
It is an unknown how the midfield will adapt to having to cover space
Possibly our best player (McCleary) will not be utilised in his best position when fit
Guthrie is not Pirlo and Karacan is not Nigel De Jong!

[If you still hate Futcher]

Why is everyone so fixated on McCleary playing on the wing?

I would love to see him playing up top, either alongside Pog or maybe even on his own. He's not bad in the air and his pace and skill would enable him to work the channels. If we can get the ball to him there he'd be running at centre backs rather than full backs

Didn't he play there for Forest a few times, one of them when he scored 4(?) against Leeds

[urz13]

McCleary played as a striker for a good portion of the Burnley game and looked a threat despite his 1v1 miss - perhaps he could play there instead of HRK?

[Snowball]

Why is everyone so fixated on McCleary playing on the wing?

I would love to see him playing up top, either alongside Pog or maybe even on his own. He's not bad in the air and his pace and skill would enable him to work the channels. If we can get the ball to him there he'd be running at centre backs rather than full backs

Didn't he play there for Forest a few times, one of them when he scored 4(?) against Leeds

I'm sure I read that his fave position was number 10 off the striker

[PistolPete]

This is good news. Good news for Adkins as I've done his scouting for him too.

So if G-Mac can play down the middle all we need is left wing back cover and central defence cover.

Central Defence: Giancarlo González. Played in a back 3 for Costa Rica and for Columbus Crew.

Left Wing-back: Matías Campos. Plays anywhere on the left side and has played wing back for Chile.

Done. All we need now is lot's of Thai Bhat.