What is the point in HRK

[Maguire]

Shane Long is rubbish though.

[Angry Shed Sex]

This list trashed Shane Long (will never be a footballer), Mills, Leigertwood,
Hunt 1 & 2, Rosenior,... Kebe was Bambi on Ice, and I'm sure many others

None of that list have really pulled up any trees since leaving. Even Shane Long. So I'm not sure of your point.

[Hoop Blah]

Kebe didn't even pull up any trees whilst here, bar a magnificent spell under McDermott, let alone anywhere else.

Both Hunts made the most of their talent through hard work and application.

Long obviously proved everyone wrong by going on to score 10 goals a season in the Premier League...

[Snowball]

Shane Long is rubbish though.

agreed

[Snowball]

This list trashed Shane Long (will never be a footballer), Mills, Leigertwood,
Hunt 1 & 2, Rosenior,... Kebe was Bambi on Ice, and I'm sure many others

None of that list have really pulled up any trees since leaving. Even Shane Long. So I'm not sure of your point.

Depends what you mean.

Long has had over 20 million in transfer fees and currently plays for a side
that has been in the top four of the Premiership for most of this season
and still have a very good chance of getting into Europe

[Angry Shed Sex]

This list trashed Shane Long (will never be a footballer), Mills, Leigertwood,
Hunt 1 & 2, Rosenior,... Kebe was Bambi on Ice, and I'm sure many others

None of that list have really pulled up any trees since leaving. Even Shane Long. So I'm not sure of your point.

Depends what you mean.

Long has had over 20 million in transfer fees and currently plays for a side
that has been in the top four of the Premiership for most of this season
and still have a very good chance of getting into Europe

This is the Shane Long that's played 21 premiership games this season and scored 2 goals?

Snowers, look at his record on Wikipedia.

2006-2007 In the Premiership, played 21, scored 2.
2007-2008 In the Premiership, played 29, scored 3.
2011-2012 In the Premiership, played 32, scored 8.
2012-2013 In the Premiership, played 34, scored 8.
2013-2014 In the Premiership, played 30, scored 7.
2014-2015 In the Premiership, played 19, scored 2.

At best, it's OK (for the top flight)

Leroy Lita (14), Kevin Doyle (13) and Dave Kitson (10) have all scored more Premiership goals in a season than Long has.

When the stats don't back you up you go with irrelevant facts and gut feeling,

So, you're doing exactly what everyone else is doing. So stop telling them they are morons. They are no better or worse than you.

[Ian Royal]

Torres cost a bomb and played at Chelsea - he must have been a success there. Re-write the record books, everyone was wrong, snowball's put us right.

[SCIAG]

This is the Shane Long that's played 21 premiership games this season and scored 2 goals?

Snowers, look at his record on Wikipedia.

2006-2007 In the Premiership, played 21, scored 2.
2007-2008 In the Premiership, played 29, scored 3.
2011-2012 In the Premiership, played 32, scored 8.
2012-2013 In the Premiership, played 34, scored 8.
2013-2014 In the Premiership, played 30, scored 7.
2014-2015 In the Premiership, played 19, scored 2.

At best, it's OK (for the top flight)

Leroy Lita (14), Kevin Doyle (13) and Dave Kitson (10) have all scored more Premiership goals in a season than Long has.

When the stats don't back you up you go with irrelevant facts and gut feeling,

So, you're doing exactly what everyone else is doing. So stop telling them they are morons. They are no better or worse than you.

Agree with the general sentiment.

Bit of nitpicking: Leroy Lita has never scored 14 goals in a Premier League season. In 06/07, he scored 7 in the league and 7 in the cups. Since then, he's scored 1, 2, and 0 goals in the three PL seasons he's played in (32 apps).

I also think it's disingenuous to stick Long's two seasons with us on there. The player we sold and Snowball hyped up was very different to the overenthusiastic boy we threw in at the deep end.

[SCIAG]

Kebe didn't even pull up any trees whilst here, bar a magnificent spell under McDermott,

That makes it sound like he had a few good games on the spin, rather than three years as one of our best players and two as our main creative outlet.

[Angry Shed Sex]

Bit of nitpicking: Leroy Lita has never scored 14 goals in a Premier League season. In 06/07, he scored 7 in the league and 7 in the cups. Since then, he's scored 1, 2, and 0 goals in the three PL seasons he's played in (32 apps).

I also think it's disingenuous to stick Long's two seasons with us on there. The player we sold and Snowball hyped up was very different to the overenthusiastic boy we threw in at the deep end.

Yes - I've just looked at the Wiki entry and I see you're right. I apologise for the incorrect stat.

It was really a post to prove that stats tell whatever story you want them to tell.

I guess my point has been proved.

[Snowball]

Tell us again how Long is a 10 goal a season man in the PL...

The exact quote by me was: Jan 2010



Not "hindsight" on my part. I've been defending Shane and saying how good he was going to be
for the best part of 5 years. I was ridiculed for saying he would be a 10-goal a season player
in the Prem, or 20 a season in the CCC or 30 a season in League 1.

Only serious injury will stop him being a player in the English Premiership.


It doesn't say "10 Premiership Goals", it never did. It says 10 goals a season player.

2011-12 09 Goals
2012-13 13 Goals
2013-14 08 Goals

2011-14 30 Goals = 10 Goal average

I also said (Dec 2009)

I have always believed that Long has the potential to be a top striker. I still think that.
Agree with Hoop it might not be the main goal-getter, but a very good and important
player. Knowing our luck it'll be for another club


I'm not "blinded" by anything. Shane Long is a very important player to this club, has been involved in about 50% of all our goals this season (in the games he played) and, as predicted, he is getting better each season. Barring serious injuries, he will be a sought-after striker. Big deal he isn't the most prolific, but a goal every 250/225 minutes is not at all bad. He's more than just a striker, does loads of work off the ball, hammers defenders, wins pens and free-kicks. Why the bloke continues to get criticism and yet other players missing chances are glossed over, beats me.

26 Dec 2009

IMO he's been sensational all season, just not turning it into goals. We'd better hope he starts missing again soon.
If he gets 20 this season we'll lose him

[Ouroboros]

Tell us again how Long is a 10 goal a season man in the PL...

It doesn't say "10 Premiership Goals", it never did. It says 10 goals a season player.

2011-12 09 Goals
2012-13 13 Goals
2013-14 08 Goals

2011-14 30 Goals = 10 Goal average

Firstly, are you therefore going to concede that you were wrong when this season ends and his average plummets?

Secondly, you've included international goals haven't you?

[Snowball136]

Why would one season below the average make me wrong?

Surely ONE ten goal season makes me right

If a player gets 30 goals in one season do we ignore it if he's out a year or has an off time? Kevin Doyle had some horrendous dry times. I remember his best years and his overall averages

Great servant, great full of heart player and now, overall second to Shane


I have not the slightest compunction using international goals as part of a player assessment. I was doing so way back in 2009 and have done so consistently



BTW, reading the old "Long - time for a change" thread is sweet. So many were saying he wasn't fit to clean Church's boots

Shortly after Long was in The Prem and Church, League One

[Platypuss]

So many were saying he wasn't fit to clean Church's boots

I'm calling total BS on thatone until you back it up.

[Snowball]

So many were saying he wasn't fit to clean Church's boots

I'm calling total BS on thatone until you back it up.

Read the thread

[Angry Shed Sex]

Snowball, Snowball136, Snowball69 and Snowball666 this morning.

[From Despair To Where?]

My feelings with HRK is that after the promise of 2011-13, he's not progressed as a player. Maybe it was the bulking up that did for him, maybe it's the tactics or the role that he's being asked to play, I don't know but his play seems to lack that drive or directness that we saw previously.

Stats are misleading. The stats tell me that HRK has had more impact than Pog this season. The evidence of going to games is that when things aren't going for Pog, he still puts in a shift and tries to make things happen, he occupies the defender and gives him something to think about which, in itself, can have an influence on the game. When things aren't going for HRK, it's like we're playing with 10 men.

Maybe it's a languid style that makes it look like a lack of effort but fans will forgive players a lot of things if they are seen to be putting in the effort and HRK, for all his good qualities, doesn't come across like that and that is the root cause of all the antipathy towards him, a perceived lack of effort, it's like he's playing within himself.

[Angry Shed Sex]

My feelings with HRK is that after the promise of 2011-13, he's not progressed as a player. Maybe it was the bulking up that did for him, maybe it's the tactics or the role that he's being asked to play, I don't know but his play seems to lack that drive or directness that we saw previously.

Stats are misleading. The stats tell me that HRK has had more impact than Pog this season. The evidence of going to games is that when things aren't going for Pog, he still puts in a shift and tries to make things happen, he occupies the defender and gives him something to think about which, in itself, can have an influence on the game. When things aren't going for HRK, it's like we're playing with 10 men.

Maybe it's a languid style that makes it look like a lack of effort but fans will forgive players a lot of things if they are seen to be putting in the effort and HRK, for all his good qualities, doesn't come across like that and that is the root cause of all the antipathy towards him, a perceived lack of effort, it's like he's playing within himself.

Balanced argument there FDTW and broadly fits in with my feeling. The touting of his services like a cheap hooker by his agent/brother after we were relegated also didn't do him any favours with the fans (IMHO).

[Ouroboros]

Why would one season below the average make me wrong?

Surely ONE ten goal season makes me right

Maybe it would have done if you hadn't counted goals he scored against his kids in the back yard when trying to scrape your 10 together.

But then "He will be a 10-goal a season player" does not equal "He will get one season when gets 10 goals and a loads of others when he doesn't".

[Blakey's Chin]

My feelings with HRK is that after the promise of 2011-13, he's not progressed as a player. Maybe it was the bulking up that did for him, maybe it's the tactics or the role that he's being asked to play, I don't know but his play seems to lack that drive or directness that we saw previously.

Stats are misleading. The stats tell me that HRK has had more impact than Pog this season. The evidence of going to games is that when things aren't going for Pog, he still puts in a shift and tries to make things happen, he occupies the defender and gives him something to think about which, in itself, can have an influence on the game. When things aren't going for HRK, it's like we're playing with 10 men.

Maybe it's a languid style that makes it look like a lack of effort but fans will forgive players a lot of things if they are seen to be putting in the effort and HRK, for all his good qualities, doesn't come across like that and that is the root cause of all the antipathy towards him, a perceived lack of effort, it's like he's playing within himself.

Completely agree with this. HRK seemed to have a decent season in the Prem, got 7 goals but in less appearances, but he just doesn't seem to want to take people on now, and his one on one against bradford was woeful. However his goals have got us this far in the cup run, and he can score when you don't expect him to. So I'd agree that he hasn't progressed in some aspects, but he hasn't got worse. I'd still have him in the team most games, more useful than Blackman