Wholesale changes in defence??

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CountryRoyal
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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by CountryRoyal » 26 Oct 2015 19:03

Bond in for A Habsi

Ferdinand in for McShane

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Jimbo » 26 Oct 2015 20:10

Changing the goalkeeper now is a stupid idea. Habsi can't be blamed for any of the Fulham goals and he's starting to show a bit of decent form and confidence.
I'd like to see Tish come in to help the midfield and Piazon dropped until he can learn to play a team game.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by MeMeMe » 26 Oct 2015 20:21

Jack Celliers Clarke seemed to be playing more and more attacking players each week. Fulham will be a bit of a reality check.


Exactly, a reality check for Clarke and the players. I think they all got bit too cocky especially after going 2 up, thought Fulham would never score and we would get a few more no doubt. Over confidence leads to a fall and that's exactly what has happened. Bit of a smack in the face and back down to earth.
With hindsight, I am sure Clarke would have shored up the midfield to plug their attacks and taken off a couple of the 'luxury' attacking players we fielded who did their job well. Then walk away with the points. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to learn from !.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by CountryRoyal » 26 Oct 2015 21:28

Jimbo Changing the goalkeeper now is a stupid idea. Habsi can't be blamed for any of the Fulham goals and he's starting to show a bit of decent form and confidence.
I'd like to see Tish come in to help the midfield and Piazon dropped until he can learn to play a team game.


I felt that a better keeper could have done more for all them tbh.
Not his fault though, but it's not right that every time they had a chance you felt they'd score. The same has to be said for Bond though. Zero confidence in either keeper, would think Myhill in Jan should be a priority tbh.

Agree with the rest I said Tish should come in after Rotherham.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Snowball136 » 26 Oct 2015 22:51

royal_rumble Why doesn't Cooper get a look in? Given Hector looking pretty dodgy at times in the last couple of weeks and McShane being first choice, I wouldn't mind seeing him given ago alongside McS,

Also Al-Habsi clearly has communication issues, Bond back in for sure.







I'd love to see Cooper at CB and move Hector forward to DM


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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Ian Royal » 26 Oct 2015 22:55

Snowball136
royal_rumble Why doesn't Cooper get a look in? Given Hector looking pretty dodgy at times in the last couple of weeks and McShane being first choice, I wouldn't mind seeing him given ago alongside McS,

Also Al-Habsi clearly has communication issues, Bond back in for sure.







I'd love to see Cooper at CB and move Hector forward to DM

Why would you want to displace Norwood, Williams, Quinn or Tshibola for a him to accommodate a young raw CB?

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by paultheroyal » 26 Oct 2015 23:12

CountryRoyal
Jimbo Changing the goalkeeper now is a stupid idea. Habsi can't be blamed for any of the Fulham goals and he's starting to show a bit of decent form and confidence.
I'd like to see Tish come in to help the midfield and Piazon dropped until he can learn to play a team game.


I felt that a better keeper could have done more for all them tbh.
Not his fault though, but it's not right that every time they had a chance you felt they'd score. The same has to be said for Bond though. Zero confidence in either keeper, would think Myhill in Jan should be a priority tbh.

Agree with the rest I said Tish should come in after Rotherham.


Are we talking about the ever present premier league goalkeeper from west brom?

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by bcubed » 26 Oct 2015 23:38

paddy20
Dixeyroyal I am a bit confused as to why you think there needs to be wholesale changes to the defence, when clearly our lack of ability to defend from the front and track back from Midfield contributed more to the defeat.
I agree that Obita was shocking (but he hasn't been that good for months now) and Hector/McShane had rare off days, but for me our defeat was more alarming because:

1. Piazon lost the ball more than anyone else in the 2nd half and failed to track back or put in any tackle of note. The flicks and tricks look great when your 2-0 up and cruising but you have to cut them out when it gets to 2-2 and you need to roll your sleeves up and work
2. Vydra/Sa/Blackman started giving the full backs far too much room to work in, with all but 1 of their goals starting from a ball played out of defence by one of their full backs
3. Norwood was constantly covering for Piazon and spent most of the second half trying to retrieve loose balls, rather than being able to get on the ball himself and dictate the play

Whilst i agree that the defence was poor, we haven't been able to say that too many times this season, and i would personally stick with 3 of the 4 but replace Obita, who has been consistently the worst of the 4 all season, so it's not just based on this game.

I would also like to see Tish start in place of Piazon and Kingsley start in goal ahead of Al-Habsi or Bond!


Didn't think Obita did much wrong against Fulham. Thought Hector could be blamed for 2 of the goals. Al Habsi had little chance for any of them. Ferdinand to replace Hector when fit. Otherwise should stick with same four but bring in Tishbola who will give them more protection


Agree with this
Don't really understand why Tish was not played v Fulham. He has been outstanding at reading the game and providing solidity in the middle of the park. And ideal for away games you would think

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by CountryRoyal » 26 Oct 2015 23:52

bcubed
paddy20
Dixeyroyal I am a bit confused as to why you think there needs to be wholesale changes to the defence, when clearly our lack of ability to defend from the front and track back from Midfield contributed more to the defeat.
I agree that Obita was shocking (but he hasn't been that good for months now) and Hector/McShane had rare off days, but for me our defeat was more alarming because:

1. Piazon lost the ball more than anyone else in the 2nd half and failed to track back or put in any tackle of note. The flicks and tricks look great when your 2-0 up and cruising but you have to cut them out when it gets to 2-2 and you need to roll your sleeves up and work
2. Vydra/Sa/Blackman started giving the full backs far too much room to work in, with all but 1 of their goals starting from a ball played out of defence by one of their full backs
3. Norwood was constantly covering for Piazon and spent most of the second half trying to retrieve loose balls, rather than being able to get on the ball himself and dictate the play

Whilst i agree that the defence was poor, we haven't been able to say that too many times this season, and i would personally stick with 3 of the 4 but replace Obita, who has been consistently the worst of the 4 all season, so it's not just based on this game.

I would also like to see Tish start in place of Piazon and Kingsley start in goal ahead of Al-Habsi or Bond!


Didn't think Obita did much wrong against Fulham. Thought Hector could be blamed for 2 of the goals. Al Habsi had little chance for any of them. Ferdinand to replace Hector when fit. Otherwise should stick with same four but bring in Tishbola who will give them more protection


Agree with this
Don't really understand why Tish was not played v Fulham. He has been outstanding at reading the game and providing solidity in the middle of the park. And ideal for away games you would think


Whilst I said I thought Tish should start for Fullham after the Rotherham game, hindsight is a wonderful thing. We were completely dominant for parts of that game and had we gone to win it no one would have questioned it. No one could have foreseen the defence capitulating like it did, and iirc Fullham scored another shortly after Tish came on, they would have gotten a 5th had it not been for Gunter off the line too.


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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Scarface » 27 Oct 2015 00:52

paultheroyal Anyone who witnessed Ferdinand walking across the pitch on Saturday will realise he is no nearer a return to first team action.


Ferdinand walks like he's got wooden legs normally the poor bloke, but yes if fit he needs to start. I'd also agree that Taylor deserves a run at left back, as he's a more solid defender. I wouldn't totally drop Obita, as he can do a job left side of midfield if needed, making us much more solid compared to Piazon.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Scarface » 27 Oct 2015 00:53

CountryRoyal
Ferdinand in for McShane


What games are you watching this season mate? He's our best defender by a mile.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Snowball » 27 Oct 2015 01:19

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I'd love to see Cooper at CB and move Hector forward to DM

Why would you want to displace Norwood, Williams, Quinn or Tshibola for a him to accommodate a young raw CB?[/quote]

Williams looks exciting on occasion but IMO he's a "random"

Our midfield v Everton was awesome,a proper "team" midfield
and the player I would drop would be Williams, because,
again IMO, he doesn't help to make a midfield cohesive machine

I would choose Tish every time ahead of Williams

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Snowball » 27 Oct 2015 01:24

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Why would you want to displace Norwood, Williams, Quinn or Tshibola for a him to accommodate a young raw CB?


Not the question I was answering.

Hector hasn't looked great, McShane has been below par. My point was in answer to someone
suggesting Cooper replaced Hector.

IF that happened, I'd love to see Hector at DM. I think, if Cooper is up to the test,
Hector at DM would mean we'd have the best defensive record in the league.

I still believe Hector, long-term, will make a better DM than CB


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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Ian Royal » 27 Oct 2015 12:29

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Why would you want to displace Norwood, Williams, Quinn or Tshibola for a him to accommodate a young raw CB?


Not the question I was answering.

Hector hasn't looked great, McShane has been below par. My point was in answer to someone
suggesting Cooper replaced Hector.

IF that happened, I'd love to see Hector at DM. I think, if Cooper is up to the test,
Hector at DM would mean we'd have the best defensive record in the league.

I still believe Hector, long-term, will make a better DM than CB

By definition, if you want to see Hector play as a defensive midfielder, you can only play a maximum of two of Norwood, Williams, Quinn and Tshibola. Not to mention Fernandez. So you're saying you'd prefer to play a flexible centreback in midfield than two or three excellent midfielders. And quite probably a forced change in the way we play.

All to accommodate curiousity about how it would work and crowbar in our fourth best centreback to the defence.

Laat season, it might have been a valid idea whilst we were struggling and low on successful midfield options. This season it's madness. And happily there's effectively zero chance of it happening.

Oh and I don't know what your definition of below par is, but mine isn't a couple of dodgy games amongst 10 great ones.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Coppelled_Streets » 27 Oct 2015 12:31

CountryRoyal Bond in for A Habsi

Ferdinand in for McShane


For McShane? The Captain? Who's been superb so far? OK. LOL

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by paultheroyal » 27 Oct 2015 13:34

CountryRoyal Zero confidence in either keeper, would think Myhill in Jan should be a priority tbh.




Are we talking about the ever present premier league goalkeeper from west brom?

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Ouroboros » 27 Oct 2015 14:05

Tbf it's reasonable to assume he's still second choice. Whether Myhill sees it that way is another matter.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by CountryRoyal » 27 Oct 2015 14:58

Scarface What games are you watching this season mate? He's our best defender by a mile.


Coppelled_Streets For McShane? The Captain? Who's been superb so far? OK. LOL


I agree he's been our best defender over the course of the season, it's not without doubt. He's just made too many mistakes, especially recently, and what's the point of squad competition if you think you are undroppable which many people would like to think he is.

Look back through the goals we've conceded this season and he's been directly or at least heavily responsible in a lot of them. I, like others, have pointed out he sometimes too aggressive when committing to a challenge, allowing the attacker to chop inside/turn him, when it would have been better to stay on feet. Brentford comes to mind, Ipswich was part of the oxf*rd up and was fortunate not to concede a penalty, Derby... Etc, it hasn't really been a problem whilst we've still been winning, but that applies to most things tbh.

Didn't he lose his man against Rotherham for the goal? Both him and Williams were pissing about which allowed the most ridiculous amount of time for the scorer. Yesterday was just a clusterfukk of crap from everyone, but he was the worse CB for me. He practically passed the ball to Fullham for at least 2 of the goals, was heavily out of position for the other, though pretty much the entire team was at that stage.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by SCIAG » 27 Oct 2015 15:01

Scarface I'd also agree that Taylor deserves a run at left back, as he's a more solid defender. I wouldn't totally drop Obita, as he can do a job left side of midfield if needed, making us much more solid compared to Piazon.

Good shout. If Clarke will insist on playing a "CM-who-can-also-play-LM", then I think Obita should be ahead of Piazon whilst Quinn is out. He's got all the skills to play there, and he has played in both positions before. Midfield of Norwood-Obita-Tshibola could be beautiful.

I'd prefer Williams, mind.

And Ferdinand>McShane, but McShane>Hector so far this season. Cooper against Everton was probably the best performance from any centre back this season though.

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Re: Wholesale changes in defence??

by Ian Royal » 27 Oct 2015 17:57

SCIAG
Scarface I'd also agree that Taylor deserves a run at left back, as he's a more solid defender. I wouldn't totally drop Obita, as he can do a job left side of midfield if needed, making us much more solid compared to Piazon.

Good shout. If Clarke will insist on playing a "CM-who-can-also-play-LM", then I think Obita should be ahead of Piazon whilst Quinn is out. He's got all the skills to play there, and he has played in both positions before. Midfield of Norwood-Obita-Tshibola could be beautiful.

I'd prefer Williams, mind.

And Ferdinand>McShane, but McShane>Hector so far this season. Cooper against Everton was probably the best performance from any centre back this season though.


I'm not really in favour. Obita strikes me as just another lightweight option played out of position, just like Piazon. The problem isn't that Piazon isn't good enough, it's that he shouldn't be in midfield (at least not this style midfield - put him off a lone striker as an attacking central midfielder with two behind him, fine. But then you need more conventional and defensively minded wingers which takes away our strongest weapon) Either drop him or put him at left forward where he can do the damage to them and not to us, then play three proper midfielders - a playmaker (Norwood / Fernandez) a water carrier (Quinn / Tshibola) and a box to boxer (Williams / Tshibola)

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