Ian, I don't think 19th or lower should be considered a failure on Jaap Stam's behalf when you consider the absolute cr*p he has for a squad at the moment.
Definitely you can point your fingers at the Thai owners. It would be their failure. But, if we were to finish in the bottom 3, I wouldn't consider that to be a failure from Jaap Stam. He has inherited an atrocious mess of a first team. It is the same mess that Brian was trying to sort out. Now Jaap has to sort it out and he has only just come in and is learning about all our players.
If he can keep us up then has done very well. Bottom 3 is par for us at the moment. This is a mess created well and truly by the owners. Not necessarily because they have bad intentions. It's more because they have no knowledge or experience of how to run an English football club.
Where will you finish?
Lol. Bottom 3 is par for us? Much of our squad would walk in to the majority of other championship squads. Of course the buck lies with the manager. As is the way with modern day football.
It's not the Thais fault that the manager(s) can't get the best out of this squad. The team was littered with demotivated loanees last season, loanees the manager chose to play despite underachieving, less you forget?
With the loans departed what is left is a very capable championship squad. So far the Thais have sold off 1 player, given permission for Stam to get his own signings in; and allowed Stam to assess what he has in this team whilst retaining all the saleable assets.
FTR I think Stam will start slow; but will get a mid table finish. I'm going with an 11th place finish following a January flirtation with the playoffs.
Cheer up top flight, deep down you know our squad is stronger than a fair few teams in this league and we are not, in your words, an atrocious mess
It's not the Thais fault that the manager(s) can't get the best out of this squad. The team was littered with demotivated loanees last season, loanees the manager chose to play despite underachieving, less you forget?
With the loans departed what is left is a very capable championship squad. So far the Thais have sold off 1 player, given permission for Stam to get his own signings in; and allowed Stam to assess what he has in this team whilst retaining all the saleable assets.
FTR I think Stam will start slow; but will get a mid table finish. I'm going with an 11th place finish following a January flirtation with the playoffs.
Cheer up top flight, deep down you know our squad is stronger than a fair few teams in this league and we are not, in your words, an atrocious mess
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One8Seven1*
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Ian Abrahams (Moose) Verified account @BroadcastMoose
Championship - Champions Newcastle, Derby & Brighton to go up, Rotherham, Burton, Reading to go down
We've got mid-table written all iover us, barring something unexpected.
Championship - Champions Newcastle, Derby & Brighton to go up, Rotherham, Burton, Reading to go down
We've got mid-table written all iover us, barring something unexpected.
I'd be happy with notable progress, solid mid-table with a well defined plan and playing style would constitute a solid season.
Thanks Gabriel,
Based upon where we were towards the end of last season there's a different feel to the club. I'd suggest you have a read of the interview with our Technical Director if you haven't already, it's pretty insightful http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/footb ... n-11683594.
I didn't want Brian back last season, however given we appointed him I was disappointed that we sacked him so soon, although things were turgid and we needed change to have him simply as a stopgap was pretty disrespectful.
Bringing Jaap on board is a complete unknown for us, soundbites are encouraging and it gives the impression that he knows what he wants to do and how to get us there, whether that translates into reality is different though. For me I'm simply looking for progress this season, not expecting us to be up top by any stretch of imagination. His signings look mixed and each come with their own health warning.
Depends on the perspective of the fan you talk to, views seem to cover the following (one positive, one negative).
Joey van den Berg - you could say that he's a capable but limited midfielder who provides useful utility cover across the pitch and will add some much needed steel to our midfield, alternatively he's the old cheap option blocking youngers (Kelly, Kuhl) and a walking red card/liability.
Jaakkola - Seems capable enough and reviews from South Africa especially are glowing although another cheap option and a total unknown.
Swift - young and skillful winger/midfielder who could prove to be a bright spark for us, known to be lazy and may block Fosu's progress.
Mendes - looked good end of last season at Le Havre when moved to a centre forward position admittedly in the French Ligue 2, a cheap option that constantly falls over his own feet.
Meite - very promising young winger that should be on the fringes of the youth team, another foreign unknown taking spaces from our own youth kids (Fosu).
Gravenberch - young and looks like a beast and should add some more strength at CB/DM, he's unfit, overweight and won't ever be capable of stepping into the team. (brought in before Stam)
Beerens - looks skillful and an upgrade on existing options, rubbish in the Bundesliga.
The interesting thing this summer has been the Van der Vaart rumours. Looks like he's off to Denmark but to have a player (even if he's old) of that profile and calibre linked to us shows the manager is some draw, Jaap and Brian T helped us beat off several teams for Meite and Swift so we're competing, even with a small budget.
General consensus seems to be wings looks strong (too many players for spaces?) with the main gaps being fullbacks (arguments about whether that's to replace Obita/Gunter or as cover depends on the fan), one more experienced CB (Although we have McShane, Cooper, Gravenberch and young options like Dickie/Jules) - which Liam Moore should be a step up and most importantly the man up top in our 4-3-3, unless Mendes really lands on his feet as the man up top our other strikers - Kermorgant, Samuel and Rakels seem more suited to part of 2 up-top.
Lastly, given the changes I've been very very impressed so far with Tevreden. I love his approach which is very confident boarding on arrogant - in some ways I think we need that, we've been too "nice" as a club in the past, this has seen deals concluded quickly and it appears the club finally have a vision which the Thai's are implementing, there's been too much of the 'old guard' feel around the club the last few seasons, so I'm welcoming a different approach. I worried when Hammond left, but for us to get £5.5m for Tshibola and if the player hadn't said he wanted to leave then we would have rejected that (as well as possibly keeping Norwood, Williams and Gunter and considering offering them new deals - although I wouldn't be upset if they went out the door I guess that's ambition?) shows that we're looking in the right direction.
I'm hoping the Thais learned from last season and we seem to be trying another approach. Not expecting us to be going up, if we have a slow start (which I fully expect) getting relegated wouldn't be improbable and I'd expect to see people on Jaap's back, if we stick with the guy throughout the season and manage to settle down I could see us with a mid-table finish based on what's happened so far, if it's an improvement on last season, I'd take that.
Under Adkins we looked like a team regressing, under Clarke after the incredible start last year we went into freefall, under McDermott we stabilised a little but in reality it was more like slowly creeping backwards. Anything that stops the rot is welcome by me.
Based upon where we were towards the end of last season there's a different feel to the club. I'd suggest you have a read of the interview with our Technical Director if you haven't already, it's pretty insightful http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/footb ... n-11683594.
I didn't want Brian back last season, however given we appointed him I was disappointed that we sacked him so soon, although things were turgid and we needed change to have him simply as a stopgap was pretty disrespectful.
Bringing Jaap on board is a complete unknown for us, soundbites are encouraging and it gives the impression that he knows what he wants to do and how to get us there, whether that translates into reality is different though. For me I'm simply looking for progress this season, not expecting us to be up top by any stretch of imagination. His signings look mixed and each come with their own health warning.
Depends on the perspective of the fan you talk to, views seem to cover the following (one positive, one negative).
Joey van den Berg - you could say that he's a capable but limited midfielder who provides useful utility cover across the pitch and will add some much needed steel to our midfield, alternatively he's the old cheap option blocking youngers (Kelly, Kuhl) and a walking red card/liability.
Jaakkola - Seems capable enough and reviews from South Africa especially are glowing although another cheap option and a total unknown.
Swift - young and skillful winger/midfielder who could prove to be a bright spark for us, known to be lazy and may block Fosu's progress.
Mendes - looked good end of last season at Le Havre when moved to a centre forward position admittedly in the French Ligue 2, a cheap option that constantly falls over his own feet.
Meite - very promising young winger that should be on the fringes of the youth team, another foreign unknown taking spaces from our own youth kids (Fosu).
Gravenberch - young and looks like a beast and should add some more strength at CB/DM, he's unfit, overweight and won't ever be capable of stepping into the team. (brought in before Stam)
Beerens - looks skillful and an upgrade on existing options, rubbish in the Bundesliga.
The interesting thing this summer has been the Van der Vaart rumours. Looks like he's off to Denmark but to have a player (even if he's old) of that profile and calibre linked to us shows the manager is some draw, Jaap and Brian T helped us beat off several teams for Meite and Swift so we're competing, even with a small budget.
General consensus seems to be wings looks strong (too many players for spaces?) with the main gaps being fullbacks (arguments about whether that's to replace Obita/Gunter or as cover depends on the fan), one more experienced CB (Although we have McShane, Cooper, Gravenberch and young options like Dickie/Jules) - which Liam Moore should be a step up and most importantly the man up top in our 4-3-3, unless Mendes really lands on his feet as the man up top our other strikers - Kermorgant, Samuel and Rakels seem more suited to part of 2 up-top.
Lastly, given the changes I've been very very impressed so far with Tevreden. I love his approach which is very confident boarding on arrogant - in some ways I think we need that, we've been too "nice" as a club in the past, this has seen deals concluded quickly and it appears the club finally have a vision which the Thai's are implementing, there's been too much of the 'old guard' feel around the club the last few seasons, so I'm welcoming a different approach. I worried when Hammond left, but for us to get £5.5m for Tshibola and if the player hadn't said he wanted to leave then we would have rejected that (as well as possibly keeping Norwood, Williams and Gunter and considering offering them new deals - although I wouldn't be upset if they went out the door I guess that's ambition?) shows that we're looking in the right direction.
I'm hoping the Thais learned from last season and we seem to be trying another approach. Not expecting us to be going up, if we have a slow start (which I fully expect) getting relegated wouldn't be improbable and I'd expect to see people on Jaap's back, if we stick with the guy throughout the season and manage to settle down I could see us with a mid-table finish based on what's happened so far, if it's an improvement on last season, I'd take that.
Under Adkins we looked like a team regressing, under Clarke after the incredible start last year we went into freefall, under McDermott we stabilised a little but in reality it was more like slowly creeping backwards. Anything that stops the rot is welcome by me.
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Tony Le Mesmer
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Start poorly, Stam sacked by November, things then go from bad to worse. 23rd.
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Gunny Fishcake
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West Stand Man
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sandman Best we can hope for is top of the table. More likely is mid table.
Corrected for accuracy!
In terms of probability/likelihood:
Lower mid table > relegation > upper mid table >>> playoffs >>>>>>> promoted
Lower mid table > relegation > upper mid table >>> playoffs >>>>>>> promoted
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Maneki Neko
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No idea.
Anywhere between top and bottom
Weve replaced a load of foreign loan players with random free/cheap foreigners etc.
Manager with no experience, but a big name, and knows the game, if not the league.
Still no decent defender or striker brought in.
Could go either way. if i had to guess, lower midtable, but will wait for ten games before judging, and even that would be too soon to make a call on yet another complete summer rebuild.
Anywhere between top and bottom
Weve replaced a load of foreign loan players with random free/cheap foreigners etc.
Manager with no experience, but a big name, and knows the game, if not the league.
Still no decent defender or striker brought in.
Could go either way. if i had to guess, lower midtable, but will wait for ten games before judging, and even that would be too soon to make a call on yet another complete summer rebuild.
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Royal Monkey
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One8Seven1* Ian Abrahams (Moose) Verified account @BroadcastMoose
Championship - Champions Newcastle, Derby & Brighton to go up, Rotherham, Burton, Reading to go down
We've got mid-table written all iover us, barring something unexpected.
Would love to have a bet with that fat Wet Sham supporting idiot Moose from talksport. I really can't see us getting relegated, I know Stam is an unknown as regards management as is some of our foreign imports but I'm feeling positive and confident for the new season although I don't expect top 6. But there is still plenty of time for us to loose some players and if Williams, Norwood and Gunter left during the window my confidence may wane a bit.
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Sutekh
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Ian Abrahams (TalkCrap presenter) says we'll go down with Rotherham and Burton.
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Maneki Neko
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Nearly went down last year, starting to look like a basket case club. No money to spend. Big parachute black hole to fill. A load of free transfers, and an inexperienced manager. Dont see what is wrong with his opinion if im honest
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Ian Royal
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Maneki Neko Nearly went down last year, starting to look like a basket case club. No money to spend. Big parachute black hole to fill. A load of free transfers, and an inexperienced manager. Dont see what is wrong with his opinion if im honest
I'd say we're a better survival prospect than more than three clubs, but we're certainly capable of going down... so hard to argue with us as someone's pick. Quite often a team who ought to do better falls through the trap door. Could be us easily, si I agree.
If I had to full on Top Flight it, I'd give us about a 10% chance to go down and 5% to make the playoffs to put that in context.
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CountryRoyal
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Sutekh Ian Abrahams (TalkCrap presenter) says we'll go down with Rotherham and Burton.
He is a Wet Sham fan which might have something to do with it.
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Top Flight
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Maneki Neko Nearly went down last year, starting to look like a basket case club. No money to spend. Big parachute black hole to fill. A load of free transfers, and an inexperienced manager. Dont see what is wrong with his opinion if im honest
We didn't nearly go down last year. We were safe with quite a number of games to spare. McDermott started experimenting in the last 8 or so games.
He stopped with the likes of Piazon, Hector, Vydra, John, Fernandez in the final games and started experimenting with that awful to watch diamond formation and we went on a bad run and finished close to the drop zone but were safe a long time before that.
If you can't experiment when you know you can't go up or down then when can you try different things? I think Brian was harshly treated if he was sacked because of that poor run at the end. But, we don't really know the full story of Brian's dismissal at the moment.
Regarding the Moose backing us for the drop, he is probably trying to take an educated and contrarian position. There are a number of indications that make us look like a club destined for relegation. It is a good shout. We have every chance of dropping next season.
On the other hand, there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic as well. I think you can make good arguments either way for us going down or staying up and doing reasonably well.
It's going to be an exciting season. I'll be happy if we can just stay up next season and build from there. This is the most vulnerable we have looked for the drop for a long time, but I feel confident that it won't happen. It looks like Jaap is building something good, but there is no doubt that we are at risk with so many unknowns coming into the side.
Here we go again
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andrew1957
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Worth revisiting this after last night.
So far it seems Stam/Tevenden has done a great job both in player recruitment and in changing the style of play. After the car crash of last seaosn and sacking two managers my view was that we would be very lucky to escape relegation this season.
I know some say that Plymouth and Preston were very poor (probably true) but last season we often lost/drew with poor sides.
And so on balance we have made a positive start and I am now hopeful of mid table. Any more than that after last season and having to completely rebuild the squad and Stam is a miracle worker IMO.
So far it seems Stam/Tevenden has done a great job both in player recruitment and in changing the style of play. After the car crash of last seaosn and sacking two managers my view was that we would be very lucky to escape relegation this season.
I know some say that Plymouth and Preston were very poor (probably true) but last season we often lost/drew with poor sides.
And so on balance we have made a positive start and I am now hopeful of mid table. Any more than that after last season and having to completely rebuild the squad and Stam is a miracle worker IMO.
andrew1957 Worth revisiting this after last night.
So far it seems Stam/Tevenden has done a great job both in player recruitment and in changing the style of play. After the car crash of last seaosn and sacking two managers my view was that we would be very lucky to escape relegation this season.
I know some say that Plymouth and Preston were very poor (probably true) but last season we often lost/drew with poor sides.
And so on balance we have made a positive start and I am now hopeful of mid table. Any more than that after last season and having to completely rebuild the squad and Stam is a miracle worker IMO.
Can only beat what's in front of you & also last night a lot of Championship teams lost to league 1/2 opposition.
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GloucestershireRoyal
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A very untypical way of wording the subject line; 'Where will you finish?'
Perhaps it should be corrected to 'Where will we finish?'
Perhaps it should be corrected to 'Where will we finish?'
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