Anyone For Chinese?

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Elm Park Kid
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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Elm Park Kid » 28 Nov 2016 16:34

winchester_royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
winchester_royal wrote:
This isn't true though is it

That part might well be true..


Looks like I might owe blueroyals an apology.

From what I can tell through fairly limited digging, £15m worth of shares were alloted to the football club in consideration for the land in May last year.

Since that point the shares have been gradually transferred across to a company called 'Empire Asset Group PTE limited', which it seems to be at the point now where the football club actually has no share holding in the Prop Co. Not sure if the football club received anything for the transfer of shares but somehow I doubt it..

Will be very interesting to see the club accounts when they're released in the next couple of months.


All this means is that when they sell RFC they will get less for the club than what they would have gotten if the land had been included. Ether that or they sell the Chinese the land at the same time. They're not making any money on the deal.

It's just sensible financial planning to separate them - a football club is a risky asset, land usually isn't. If the club suddenly took a financial downturn they wouldn't want that to put their development project at risk.

No one buys a championship football club to make money.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by winchester_royal » 28 Nov 2016 16:48

Elm Park Kid wrote:
All this means is that when they sell RFC they will get less for the club than what they would have gotten if the land had been included. Ether that or they sell the Chinese the land at the same time. They're not making any money on the deal.

It's just sensible financial planning to separate them - a football club is a risky asset, land usually isn't. If the club suddenly took a financial downturn they wouldn't want that to put their development project at risk.

No one buys a championship football club to make money.


Yes perhaps, but there was some talk at the time about the land development being needed as an alternative money making source for the club, which given that the club now has no investment in the land has proven to be crap.

And if the club has indeed given away a £15m piece of land for ultimately very little it significantly damages the club's balance sheet, which regardless of who owns the club is not a good thing.

The owners will, as you say get less for the club as a result of this, however they have managed to make sure that all economic benefit to come from the land will flow to them as opposed to the football club.

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Only one Trevor Morley
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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Only one Trevor Morley » 28 Nov 2016 17:25

If you were that rich would you have lived in South Norwood for 20 years as the sister appears to have done?

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by AthleticoSpizz » 28 Nov 2016 17:30

The DVD empire paid well

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by toppy » 28 Nov 2016 17:44

Only one Trevor Morley wrote:If you were that rich would you have lived in South Norwood for 20 years as the sister appears to have done?



http://www.teninsider.com/top-ten-self- ... llionaires


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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Elm Park Kid » 28 Nov 2016 17:47

winchester_royal wrote:
Elm Park Kid wrote:
All this means is that when they sell RFC they will get less for the club than what they would have gotten if the land had been included. Ether that or they sell the Chinese the land at the same time. They're not making any money on the deal.

It's just sensible financial planning to separate them - a football club is a risky asset, land usually isn't. If the club suddenly took a financial downturn they wouldn't want that to put their development project at risk.

No one buys a championship football club to make money.


Yes perhaps, but there was some talk at the time about the land development being needed as an alternative money making source for the club, which given that the club now has no investment in the land has proven to be crap.

And if the club has indeed given away a £15m piece of land for ultimately very little it significantly damages the club's balance sheet, which regardless of who owns the club is not a good thing.

The owners will, as you say get less for the club as a result of this, however they have managed to make sure that all economic benefit to come from the land will flow to them as opposed to the football club.


It still just comes down to accounting though. If the land had remained with the club then the Thais could have still just removed whatever income it generated and put it into other businesses - there's no guarantee why it would be used for the benefit of the team. Similarly, it perfectly possible that any income generate by separate company could have been passed back to the club.

When a football club is privately owned then it's own assets/debts are largely irrelevant - the same way that the fact Starbucks doesn't technically make any profit in the UK is irrelevant because the money is transferred to a lower tax area. The only thing that matters is the amount of money spent on the club, and that is 100% at the discretion of the owners.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by CountryRoyal » 28 Nov 2016 17:50

Only one Trevor Morley wrote:If you were that rich would you have lived in South Norwood for 20 years as the sister appears to have done?


Warren Buffet lives fairly modestly. To the super rich who can afford everything, luxuries aren't always desired.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by El Diablo » 28 Nov 2016 18:13

http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celebrity-business/property/xiuli-hawken-net-worth/


Hawken Xiu Li Net Worth

Net Worth:
$2.2 Billion

Source of Wealth

Real estate , self-made

Nationality

China

About Hawken Xiu Li

Born Dai Xiu Li in Harbin, China, Hawken made her fortune from leasing air-raid shelters with her brother, Dai Yongge, and turning them into underground shopping malls across the world’s most populous nation. Hawken studied Chinese literature before becoming a reporter, then left for London in 1991, where she began working in finance. She married Tony Hawken, a teacher, and they have a modest home in South Norwood, near Croydon. A non-executive director of Renhe Commercial since it was listed in Hong Kong in 2007, Hawken joined in 1996, but Hong Kong bankers say she does not take an active role in managing the company. Hawken is renowned in China for running the Shanxi Zhongxin football team, having fallen in love with the game in London. Last year, Blackstone, the American private equity giant, paid $600m for a stake of about 30% in China Shouguang Agricultural, an agricultural market Hawken’s family owns that is expected to list soon. Hawken, 48, has a 49.7% stake in Renhe, which is now worth £1,066m

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winchester_royal
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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by winchester_royal » 28 Nov 2016 18:25

Elm Park Kid wrote:It still just comes down to accounting though. If the land had remained with the club then the Thais could have still just removed whatever income it generated and put it into other businesses - there's no guarantee why it would be used for the benefit of the team. Similarly, it perfectly possible that any income generate by separate company could have been passed back to the club.

When a football club is privately owned then it's own assets/debts are largely irrelevant - the same way that the fact Starbucks doesn't technically make any profit in the UK is irrelevant because the money is transferred to a lower tax area. The only thing that matters is the amount of money spent on the club, and that is 100% at the discretion of the owners.


You're right to say that of course, at the end of the day anyone thinking the money from the property sales would be going into buying us a new striker were living in a different world, but the fact the land has been shifted out of the club makes it even more clear that the land will be of no benefit to the club and that was the point I was trying to make.

And although the amount of money to spend is at the discretion of the owners, ultimately if the owners decide to jump ship the asset base of the football club will have an impact on our sustainability going forwards and the attractiveness of the club to investors. £15m is a material amount and I'm not sure it's correct to say that it's disappearance from the club accounts makes no difference at all.

At the end of the day if these Chinese investors come in with their millions and give us the £10m investment we need to get promotion, then it will all look pretty irrelevant, but for now I'm quite concerned.


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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Ian Royal » 28 Nov 2016 18:43

toppy wrote:
Only one Trevor Morley wrote:If you were that rich would you have lived in South Norwood for 20 years as the sister appears to have done?



http://www.teninsider.com/top-ten-self- ... llionaires

I'm not sure how much to trust an article that claims a woman three years older than the woman it claims is the youngest woman billionaire, is the youngest billionaire.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by WAZZOCK » 28 Nov 2016 19:12

Here's a radical idea. This could be the best thing that ever happens to this Football Club.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by AthleticoSpizz » 28 Nov 2016 19:19

It's our Abramavich moment

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by CountryRoyal » 28 Nov 2016 19:26

WAZZOCK wrote:Here's a radical idea. This could be the best thing that ever happens to this Football Club.


You can forgive us for being apprehensive.


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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Mr Irascible » 28 Nov 2016 19:28

Is South Norwood any relation to Oliver??

Anyway we get a new club song with "Only the good Dai Yongge" - Iron Maiden or Billy Joel.

I'll get my coat!

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Gunny Fishcake » 28 Nov 2016 20:01

We probably have to get used to us being a toy for foreign billionaires .....we need stability at the club not this type of bollox....look at Wolves this season after being bought by the so called richest man in China ...shambles

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by WAZZOCK » 28 Nov 2016 20:37

CountryRoyal wrote:
WAZZOCK wrote:Here's a radical idea. This could be the best thing that ever happens to this Football Club.


You can forgive us for being apprehensive.


I suppose so yes, purely based on our experiences.

However, this mob are in a different stratosphere of wealth compared to our previous owners, so that is a big tick in the positives box for me. Reports are that finances within the club currently are in a very bad way, perhaps we've over stretched with some of the wages we have dished out?

For me: A stupidly rich benefactor + the Thai's + Nigel Howe + Brian Tevreden + Jaap Stam = a big win

Let's not forget we were DESPERATE for a striker of note to be signed in August, and we were all a bit fearful when it didn't materialise as a result of not being able to compete with the high prices in the market. Maybe, just maybe, with the Chinese we would have enough money to compete and get us over that line?

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by mumbo-jumbo » 28 Nov 2016 20:55

Eugh, just what we don't need, just as the club appeared to be finding a bit of stability and form. I know football clubs don't just finance themselves but, probably very naively, I was looking forward to the possibility of a play- off place on a shoe string and under the miracle tactics of Jaap. Perhaps this is why Jaap sounded very non committal when asked by BBCRB if he would still be here in 18 months? All this is sure to have an unsettling effect for everybody - management/players/fans. Fed up with foreign owners and their empty promises. I was actually starting to believe that the Thais really did care (a bit) and had a sort of vision/dream. In the end money ruins everything, again.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Nameless » 28 Nov 2016 21:38

If the Thai's have extracted the assets then that must mean a potential,purchaser is buying us as a football club, not a non footballing investment opportunity.
If the Thai's are only selling a majority holding, not the whole club, they must see some value in remaining involved.
I'm sceptical about all club owners, but am interested in why people think several groups seem interested if as is being suggested the biggest asset is not actually owned by the club any more.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by Ian Royal » 28 Nov 2016 21:42

Nameless wrote:If the Thai's have extracted the assets then that must mean a potential,purchaser is buying us as a football club, not a non footballing investment opportunity.
If the Thai's are only selling a majority holding, not the whole club, they must see some value in remaining involved.
I'm sceptical about all club owners, but am interested in why people think several groups seem interested if as is being suggested the biggest asset is not actually owned by the club any more.

At the more cynical end, football is always good for money laundering.

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Re: Anyone For Chinese?

by CountryRoyal » 28 Nov 2016 21:45

WAZZOCK wrote:
CountryRoyal wrote:
WAZZOCK wrote:Here's a radical idea. This could be the best thing that ever happens to this Football Club.


You can forgive us for being apprehensive.


I suppose so yes, purely based on our experiences.

However, this mob are in a different stratosphere of wealth compared to our previous owners, so that is a big tick in the positives box for me. Reports are that finances within the club currently are in a very bad way, perhaps we've over stretched with some of the wages we have dished out?

For me: A stupidly rich benefactor + the Thai's + Nigel Howe + Brian Tevreden + Jaap Stam = a big win

Let's not forget we were DESPERATE for a striker of note to be signed in August, and we were all a bit fearful when it didn't materialise as a result of not being able to compete with the high prices in the market. Maybe, just maybe, with the Chinese we would have enough money to compete and get us over that line?


I get what you're saying and of course it's easy to get a bit giddy when you hear the word billionaire, but as you said, we've been stung before. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

You are right though, the sums involved are on a different scale to what we are used to and yes, they could take us to that ever elusive "next level". However after seemingly putting to bed our behind the scenes problems and pushing in the right direction on and off the pitch one can justifiably worry (expected supporting reading :P ) how and when it's all going to go wrong. While relatively recent and early days you only have to look at clubs like Villa, Wolves and Fulham who have been taken over for mega bucks which hasn't translated into tangible on-field success.

My worry is that this potentially could have a negative impact on the team which have built up, backroom staff and playing staff, a seeming togetherness and surprising efficacy.

Of course it could go both ways, they Chinese could come in, fund a couple of important signings which aid in a promotion challenge a la Anton in 11/12. One way or another though I hope this gets resolved swiftly as prolonged uncertainty is only going to hamper our season.

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