Where I think we stand.

[CountryRoyal]

What Stam has achieved, especially under the ownership uncertainty, is nothing sort of miraculous. To transform a team and the clubs fortunes in such a short space of time is a fantastic achievement which very few fans sane of mind would disagree with, even if some perhaps aren't enthralled with the style of play which has got us here.

How are we where we are? By definition if the opposition doesn't have the ball they can't score, control possession, control the game. Limit your opposition's chances and dictate the tempo of play. Patiently waiting for an opening in attack, dragging defenders out of position and tiring the defence. That's how it should go anyway. The fact is that for team that prides itself on this we're actually not very good at it, at least not in the right areas. It's no secret that most of our play and possession is within our own half and between our back 4/5, with Al-Habsi topping the short passes list and Moore and McShane up there as well. Teams are by and large happy to allow us to do this and slowly press up in an organised fashion and wait for us to make a mistake, which we quite often have done. Invariably we are not quite as successful when we break into the opposition half where quite often we run out of ideas, in part due to increased pressure from the defence. Seldom to we seem to dominate in the opposition half, peg teams back and build pressure ourselves. It's not to say it doesn't happen, just doesn't happen enough.

So what's the reason? The truth is as others have said we just aren't simply good enough at the moment, and that's perfectly acceptable. We don't have the entire personnel to consistently carry out the style of play that is being asked of them at the moment as is demonstrated by how we cope when teams press high and we have less time on the ball so have to take quicker touches/one touches, be a bit stronger, more accurate in the passes...etc and when that occurs it highlights our flaws. Even against Huddersfield when overall we played well, for the first 20 minutes we were really under the cosh, had they scored it could have been a very different scoreline. What was frustrating was when we had soaked up the pressure, won the ball back had an opportunity to break and then fluffed our lines with a panicked pass or wrong decision. Once we calmed down a bit and got a foothold in the game we demonstrated how we could play and consequently ran Huddersfield close, far more so then when they beat the current league leaders.

How many times have we had a counter attack, 3 on 1, 4 on 2, any favourable attacking outcome and fluffed our lines? Not capitalising on opportunities that have presented themselves. We are a good team and we are where we are for a reason but we're not there yet - again, a blindingly obvious fact that no one will disagree with.

Being in the top 6 at this stage of the season with a barely positive goal difference (+2) seems remarkably low, though I can't be bothered to go back and see if that is the case, but it really tells you quite a lot. We are very good at picking up points, we seldom win by more than 1 goal but equally don't lose too often. As we have demonstrated that at times our soft underbelly has lead to some heavy defeats, they are few and far between and if nothing else our style of play by and large limits how many chances our opponents create, a tad worrying perhaps considering how many goals we ship! I look at games against teams lower down in the league and how we just scrape the win, but a win is a win...etc. I think the fact that we don't consistently out play teams of any ability, yet still get a positive result on the majority of occasions is testimant to how far we have come and what Stam and the backroom staff have done in a short space of time with the current players while learning a new style of play.

People keep saying "wait til we start playing well", dishearteningly I don't think this current team will perform how we think it should or at least over 90 minutes how they show they can in glimpses, not this season at least. I certainly don't see us beating anyone 4/5/6-0 at any point. We seem to make far too many mistakes and when we have come up against the best teams in the league we have by and large been markably second best.

I don't like the line "I'd rather not go up this year". Promotion isn't one of those things that you can just pick and choose when you want it (if you want it at all that is, but that's a different point). Yes without a doubt IF all things remain equal, we keep the players we want, add appropriately, keep Stam and the back room staff, sort the ownership...etc then yes, we should be in a better position to continue building what we've started and really mount a legitimate and controlled promotion charge rather than one which has taken everyone by surprise. Is that likely though? My fear is that we might not get that opportunity. You can only do what you can do though and take each game as it comes, I won't be disheartened if we don't go up this season put it that way, as always all I expect is to see players playing to at least the level they are capable of, hence my annoyance yesterday when that was most definitely not the case.

We're not going to play well every game otherwise we would be first and not fifth, but sometimes the level of performance is so below what the players are capable of and that's the dissapointing aspect. They are grown men and model professionals, no one was unjust in their criticism of the team yesterday I don't think. In that dressing room I can't imagine anyone sat down and said "oh well, tbf they are top of the league", bullshit. They will be dissapointed with themselves because they didn't get close to showing how good they can be, on an individual level and as a team.

We've done a great job so far and I think we should have enough within ourselves to finish in the playoffs, can you imagine that we'd be saying that in the summer? Crazy. I think the realisation is starting to hit home that even if we do that's all we will probably achieve, the other teams around us are just simply better and it's difficult to see us beating any of them in one game, let alone 3. Although with Reading you just never know.

So thank you Stam and the team for what you have achieved this season and given us something to cheer about, though enjoy your day off and put yesterday's shit show to bed and focus on Wolves, a much much better performance needed.

Feel free to use this thread as reference for after we win every remaining game and storm to our 3rd championship title.

[CountryRoyal]

Inb4 did not read lol

[Top Flight]

Thanks for your effort Country Royal.

[Hound]

I'd be confident of a good year next year if we don't go up this year.

A good solid seasons experience behind Swift, Kelly, Evans and Blackett (who personally I rate) will only improve them. Moore and Beerens barely played for 2 years before this season and hopefully Ilori will get fit and involved

I can't see us losing too many players in the summer - maybe Williams - but we have enough to make up for his leaving

There are players on the fringes who could come in make a big impact - Watson, Meite, Rakels maybe - who are all young and will get better.

It's not like we have caught anyone by surprise with our style this year - I don't think we will get'found out' as much as we will Improve in what we are trying to do

[WAZZOCK]

Phew, that's a weight off my mind.

[CountryRoyal]

Phew, that's a weight off my mind.

Glad to be of service WAZZCOCK.

[Ian Royal]

It's no secret that most of our play and possession is within our own half and between our back 4/5, with Al-Habsi topping the short passes list and Moore and McShane up there as well.

I'm not convinced by this, although that may just be because it comes across stronger than you intend given the rest of your post is fairly balanced and objective. I've not seen a huge amount of us, unfortunately, but I think this may be coloured by a couple of factors - some particularly poor performances where it is pretty true and the fact that the tedium and occasional heart in mouth moments stand out in the memory.

I had a quick look at some stats on action zones and we're not actually a million miles off Brighton over the course of the season, as an example... there's a clear difference... but not as pronounced I'd think from your post.

For the record it's Reading / Brighton / Rotherham
Own Third: 34% / 28% / 30%
Middle Third: 42% / 44% / 42%
Final Third: 24% / 29% / 28%

It's also not particularly hindering us, at least overall... against particular (good) teams is a different matter.
We maybe 18th for shots per game, and 14th for shots on target per game (that's gone down a bit I think), but we're 7th for goals per game. So we may be creating a low number of chances, but the ones we do seem to create are both good and converted at a decent rate.

I think it's worth considering that the line up has had some moderate disruption to it in recent weeks, including shape. And our new ball playing centreback got injured within a week of starting.

I agree we haven't quite got the balance right yet and we can be very frustrating to watch, but I don't think a case that we're not very good at the system, or the players aren't good enough for it - we wouldn't be where we are if that were the case. I find it particularly frustrating that Stam has barely played together the two midfielders that I think give what he's trying the best chance - Evans and Kelly and on the rare occasions he has played them together it's been out of shape or against Man U / Arsenal. But he's the professional who clearly knows a fukton more than me.

EDIT: I found a tool to compare the division, we are rock bottom on most possession in our third and least possession in the final third. Ouch.

[paultheroyal]

What Stam has achieved, especially under the ownership uncertainty, is nothing sort of miraculous. To transform a team and the clubs fortunes in such a short space of time is a fantastic achievement which very few fans sane of mind would disagree with, even if some perhaps aren't enthralled with the style of play which has got us here.

How are we where we are? By definition if the opposition doesn't have the ball they can't score, control possession, control the game. Limit your opposition's chances and dictate the tempo of play. Patiently waiting for an opening in attack, dragging defenders out of position and tiring the defence. That's how it should go anyway. The fact is that for team that prides itself on this we're actually not very good at it, at least not in the right areas. It's no secret that most of our play and possession is within our own half and between our back 4/5, with Al-Habsi topping the short passes list and Moore and McShane up there as well. Teams are by and large happy to allow us to do this and slowly press up in an organised fashion and wait for us to make a mistake, which we quite often have done. Invariably we are not quite as successful when we break into the opposition half where quite often we run out of ideas, in part due to increased pressure from the defence. Seldom to we seem to dominate in the opposition half, peg teams back and build pressure ourselves. It's not to say it doesn't happen, just doesn't happen enough.

So what's the reason? The truth is as others have said we just aren't simply good enough at the moment, and that's perfectly acceptable. We don't have the entire personnel to consistently carry out the style of play that is being asked of them at the moment as is demonstrated by how we cope when teams press high and we have less time on the ball so have to take quicker touches/one touches, be a bit stronger, more accurate in the passes...etc and when that occurs it highlights our flaws. Even against Huddersfield when overall we played well, for the first 20 minutes we were really under the cosh, had they scored it could have been a very different scoreline. What was frustrating was when we had soaked up the pressure, won the ball back had an opportunity to break and then fluffed our lines with a panicked pass or wrong decision. Once we calmed down a bit and got a foothold in the game we demonstrated how we could play and consequently ran Huddersfield close, far more so then when they beat the current league leaders.

How many times have we had a counter attack, 3 on 1, 4 on 2, any favourable attacking outcome and fluffed our lines? Not capitalising on opportunities that have presented themselves. We are a good team and we are where we are for a reason but we're not there yet - again, a blindingly obvious fact that no one will disagree with.

Being in the top 6 at this stage of the season with a barely positive goal difference (+2) seems remarkably low, though I can't be bothered to go back and see if that is the case, but it really tells you quite a lot. We are very good at picking up points, we seldom win by more than 1 goal but equally don't lose too often. As we have demonstrated that at times our soft underbelly has lead to some heavy defeats, they are few and far between and if nothing else our style of play by and large limits how many chances our opponents create, a tad worrying perhaps considering how many goals we ship! I look at games against teams lower down in the league and how we just scrape the win, but a win is a win...etc. I think the fact that we don't consistently out play teams of any ability, yet still get a positive result on the majority of occasions is testimant to how far we have come and what Stam and the backroom staff have done in a short space of time with the current players while learning a new style of play.

People keep saying "wait til we start playing well", dishearteningly I don't think this current team will perform how we think it should or at least over 90 minutes how they show they can in glimpses, not this season at least. I certainly don't see us beating anyone 4/5/6-0 at any point. We seem to make far too many mistakes and when we have come up against the best teams in the league we have by and large been markably second best.

I don't like the line "I'd rather not go up this year". Promotion isn't one of those things that you can just pick and choose when you want it (if you want it at all that is, but that's a different point). Yes without a doubt IF all things remain equal, we keep the players we want, add appropriately, keep Stam and the back room staff, sort the ownership...etc then yes, we should be in a better position to continue building what we've started and really mount a legitimate and controlled promotion charge rather than one which has taken everyone by surprise. Is that likely though? My fear is that we might not get that opportunity. You can only do what you can do though and take each game as it comes, I won't be disheartened if we don't go up this season put it that way, as always all I expect is to see players playing to at least the level they are capable of, hence my annoyance yesterday when that was most definitely not the case.

We're not going to play well every game otherwise we would be first and not fifth, but sometimes the level of performance is so below what the players are capable of and that's the dissapointing aspect. They are grown men and model professionals, no one was unjust in their criticism of the team yesterday I don't think. In that dressing room I can't imagine anyone sat down and said "oh well, tbf they are top of the league", bullshit. They will be dissapointed with themselves because they didn't get close to showing how good they can be, on an individual level and as a team.

We've done a great job so far and I think we should have enough within ourselves to finish in the playoffs, can you imagine that we'd be saying that in the summer? Crazy. I think the realisation is starting to hit home that even if we do that's all we will probably achieve, the other teams around us are just simply better and it's difficult to see us beating any of them in one game, let alone 3. Although with Reading you just never know.

So thank you Stam and the team for what you have achieved this season and given us something to cheer about, though enjoy your day off and put yesterday's shit show to bed and focus on Wolves, a much much better performance needed.

Feel free to use this thread as reference for after we win every remaining game and storm to our 3rd championship title.

Noted.

[ILoveMoonPig]

Our aim for the season was, is and should still be staying in the top half of the table. Perfectly happy for us to be in this division next year. Completely agree, I don't think we have the quality to go up this year. Plus the playoffs are always rubbish for us.

I don't get the wingebags, but I think what is frustrating people is how boring and predictable it is to watch us at time. You can tell exactly what's going to happen: mcshane to Moore, Moore to Gunter, Gunter to AAH, AAH to blacket, blacket to mcshane etc, etc. How often do we go from attacking set piece to passing around the back in under a minute?

Couple that with the number of chances we give opposition teams, it's no surprise we get the occasional hammering. Can't remember a home game for quite some time where I left thinking "yeah, on the balance of opportunities, we genuinely deserved to win that game".

Of course having said all that, we'll probably pick up a few decent results and I'll look like a right nob this time next month.

[paultheroyal]

As an aside, wonder how we would fair with 3 at the back... no passing sideways allowed it's clear your lines or pass to midfielder... and all the passing and pressing is done in middle and final third....

No putting ourselves under pressure and when we lose the ball... 9 get back behind the ball.

For me the problem is driving that ball forward with wingers or driving through the middle. Create chances!! Give away little!!

[BR0B0T]

Inb4 did not read lol

could you summarize?

[CountryRoyal]

Inb4 did not read lol

could you summarize?

We're good, but we're not that good, but hopefully we should get better.

In a nutshell.

[Royal_jimmy]

What Stam has achieved, especially under the ownership uncertainty, is nothing sort of miraculous. To transform a team and the clubs fortunes in such a short space of time is a fantastic achievement which very few fans sane of mind would disagree with, even if some perhaps aren't enthralled with the style of play which has got us here.
[/size]

I like your post as a whole but can you stop licking Stam's feet please. Other clubs have had bigger swings than us after a bad season. Look at Brighton 2 years ago then they nearly went up last year after finishing 20th. Stam has made a lot of mistakes with subs and selections over the course of the season and played wrong formations and tactics.

Wigan finished in the playoffs then went down the following season. You can never take anything for granted in this league. Next season, we may still be in the championship, strengthen further and be up there and possibly win promotion but there's also a chance teams work us out and we could go down. On some games this season we looked like a relegation team. This season we really need to take our chance and give the playoffs a real good go. Based on a game by game basis, we are just as likely to struggle than do well.

[genome]

I like your post as a whole but can you stop licking Stam's feet please. Other clubs have had bigger swings than us after a bad season. Look at Brighton 2 years ago then they nearly went up last year after finishing 20th. Stam has made a lot of mistakes with subs and selections over the course of the season and played wrong formations and tactics.

But that was the season after Hughton took over. He had a full 6 months to prepare for the following season (all credit to him, though, he's done a cracking job).

Stam took over in the summer, and had to deal with 9 (?) outgoing players, and teach an entire new system to the remaining players as well as bring in a whole new team's worth of faces with little money. What he's done this season has been remarkable, even more so considering it's his first job in management full stop (so mistakes with tactics/team selection are a given).

We'll be lucky to hold onto him.

[From Despair To Where?]

The way I see it, novice manager, lots of new players, new style of play. We're doing OK. What's important is that we are moving forward. Rome wasn't built in a day.

It took Coppell 2 full seasons, a lot of shit signings and his fair share of poor results to get it right. I remember the bollocks written on here between 2003 and 2006. It also took Pardew 2 years to get a relatively stronger squad out of a relatively weaker division and even then it went down to the wire.

[genome]

It took Coppell 2 full seasons, a lot of shit signings and his fair share of poor results to get it right. I remember the bollocks written on here between 2003 and 2006. It also took Pardew 2 years to get a relatively stronger squad out of a relatively weaker division.

Lest we forget those three consecutive 3-0 defeats in 2003.

[From Despair To Where?]

Stoke were a decent team and we didn't travel well so that was understandable but the performances at home to Wimbledon and Palace were, gutless and abject. I think it was the start of a 2 month run without a league win.

[genome]

Stoke were a decent team and we didn't travel well so that was understandable but the performances at home to Wimbledon and Palace were, gutless and abject. I think it was the start of a 2 month run without a league win.

Nah that was the following season. We went from Boxing Day to 12th March without a league win. If that was to happen nowadays, most managers would be sacked!

[From Despair To Where?]

So it was. Looking at that 2004-05 season, there was absolutely no inkling we were about to wipe the floor with that league. In fact I remember what it was like on here after the defeat to Plymouth on the opening day of 2005-06.

Put simply, I cant think of too many managers who have achieved in 8 months what Stam has. I suppose Pardew and McDermott achieved similar but they came in mid season and turned around hugely under performing teams.

[Ian Royal]

I think we can only get stronger next season personally. The bug playing staff changes happened in the summer, it should now be a case of minor tweaks. Stam's had a year of Championship experience, the players will have had a year of playing his way.

I can't see us losing many players, at least if we can afford to keep them.

Al-Habsi is surely too old to get a big move.
Moore is unlikely to go anywhere after one season and his experiences gettung stuck in Leicester reserves.
Swift hasn't really played enough games and consistently well enough to attract the attention from high enough to prize him away.
Williams may go, but I actually think that could be a Hughes moment.
Kelly probably hasn't played enough to attract quite the attention he deserves given his size and suďden burst onto the scene.
McCleary has just signed a new contract and is possibly starting to get a bit long in the tooth for a big move for a winger. We could afford to lose him if we play with wingbacks.

I dont think anyone else is a likely candidate for being poached, or that big a player for us.

As for Stam, I think he intends to back himself and not just take the first opportunity that comes his way. I think he'll want to build more than a one swason rep before moving to another job. Not much point jumping to a bigger Champ club and a lower PL team runs the risk of harming you reputation and setting back your career big time at this early stage. If we're not top 8/9 come Xmas then I'd start to worry if there's rumoured interest in him.

The only threat to this is the ownership situation and I'm not as worried by that as others it seems.