BFTG - Forest

[Victor Meldrew]

Gunter was in the side that got relegated, he was in the side for the last two useless seasons and this year he is in the side that has a dreadful record defending away from home-even the dimmest can surely see that there is a link there.

Your stats fail in any event because , as Ian said, other factors need to be taken into account such as form of the opposition at the time, team selection of our own side and the manager's tactics.

You can't have it both ways.

Either other factors need to be taken into account, in which case you can't blame Gunter (or pick out any other single player to blame), because he may be constant, but everything else is revolving (even Gunter isn't that constant, he's played in 4 or 5 different defensive positions so far this season)
OR you ignore other factors, and just look at who's playing on the day for the away games - in which case my statistics stand.

Which is it?

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

[muirinho]

Gunter was in the side that got relegated, he was in the side for the last two useless seasons and this year he is in the side that has a dreadful record defending away from home-even the dimmest can surely see that there is a link there.

Your stats fail in any event because , as Ian said, other factors need to be taken into account such as form of the opposition at the time, team selection of our own side and the manager's tactics.

You can't have it both ways.

Either other factors need to be taken into account, in which case you can't blame Gunter (or pick out any other single player to blame), because he may be constant, but everything else is revolving (even Gunter isn't that constant, he's played in 4 or 5 different defensive positions so far this season)
OR you ignore other factors, and just look at who's playing on the day for the away games - in which case my statistics stand.

Which is it?

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

Forget the captaincy, I only mentioned that as you were implying inability to lead.

The most important aspect of those stats is who was playing.

With Player X and Player Y - way worse figures in terms of negative goal difference then with Player Y on his own. Is Player Y likely to be the only factor then?
Unlikely!!!! (Unless you're daft enough to think he deliberately plays badly if Player X is on the pitch, to sabotage him. Is that your next theory?)

So should you be blaming him, and only him?

Nope. Unless you are irrationally fixated on him.

It's not rocket science.

[biff]

My truck with Gunter is that the man should be nowhere near captaincy. The footballing equivalent of Charles Hawtrey couldnt lead if he tried.

[NewCorkSeth]

You can't have it both ways.

Either other factors need to be taken into account, in which case you can't blame Gunter (or pick out any other single player to blame), because he may be constant, but everything else is revolving (even Gunter isn't that constant, he's played in 4 or 5 different defensive positions so far this season)
OR you ignore other factors, and just look at who's playing on the day for the away games - in which case my statistics stand.

Which is it?

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

Forget the captaincy, I only mentioned that as you were implying inability to lead.

The most important aspect of those stats is who was playing.

With Player X and Player Y - way worse figures in terms of negative goal difference then with Player Y on his own. Is Player Y likely to be the only factor then?
Unlikely!!!! (Unless you're daft enough to think he deliberately plays badly if Player X is on the pitch, to sabotage him. Is that your next theory?)

So should you be blaming him, and only him?

Nope. Unless you are irrationally fixated on him.

It's not rocket science.

The argument appears to be - A) Our defense is bad away from home B) Gunter has played every game in defense away from home. Therefore Gunter must be bad.

Without arguing against that it is simply being pointed out that our defensive record is better with him in the team and other defenders out of the team so it could be argued he is not the weak link away from home. Nobody is saying hes the best RB in the league (cue Top Flight)

[CountryRoyal]

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

Forget the captaincy, I only mentioned that as you were implying inability to lead.

The most important aspect of those stats is who was playing.

With Player X and Player Y - way worse figures in terms of negative goal difference then with Player Y on his own. Is Player Y likely to be the only factor then?
Unlikely!!!! (Unless you're daft enough to think he deliberately plays badly if Player X is on the pitch, to sabotage him. Is that your next theory?)

So should you be blaming him, and only him?

Nope. Unless you are irrationally fixated on him.

It's not rocket science.

The argument appears to be - A) Our defense is bad away from home B) Gunter has played every game in defense away from home. Therefore Gunter must be bad.

Which goes without saying is the most unfounded and illogical argument I've heard for some time.

[Top Flight]

My truck with Gunter is that the man should be nowhere near captaincy. The footballing equivalent of Charles Hawtrey couldnt lead if he tried.

He just doesn't look the part. He doesn't fit the image of a hard nut leader. But appearances are deceiving. As usual all you nobbers are fooled.

You lot would buy anything from a man in shiny shoes and a sharp suit. You're just dumb, shallow fools.

Gunter is hard, he does go into tackles, he does win the ball. He gets up and down the right hand side with the same speed and energy all 90 minutes. He marks the vast majority of left wingers out the game. There really is no one better at Championship level.

Fortunately Stam is not a dumb ass and thanks to Stam and others showing faith in him and not replacing him with someone that looks like Costa but plays like a fairy we are now third in the league and heading for the playoffs.

Long live Stam, long live Gunter and long live RFC. Back the boys and make some noise come on you Royals!

[Platypuss]

You lot would buy anything from a man in shiny shoes and a sharp suit. You're just dumb, shallow fools.

Says the man who got taken for a ride by this guy:

[genome]

So much nonsense in the last couple of pages it's hilarious

[Top Flight]

You lot would buy anything from a man in shiny shoes and a sharp suit. You're just dumb, shallow fools.

Says the man who got taken for a ride by this guy:

Thanks for making me laugh this morning Platypuss.

That is a good one.

[LWJ]

Does anyone have a video replay of the penalty shout?

[BR2]

You can't have it both ways.

Either other factors need to be taken into account, in which case you can't blame Gunter (or pick out any other single player to blame), because he may be constant, but everything else is revolving (even Gunter isn't that constant, he's played in 4 or 5 different defensive positions so far this season)
OR you ignore other factors, and just look at who's playing on the day for the away games - in which case my statistics stand.

Which is it?

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

Forget the captaincy, I only mentioned that as you were implying inability to lead.

The most important aspect of those stats is who was playing.

With Player X and Player Y - way worse figures in terms of negative goal difference then with Player Y on his own. Is Player Y likely to be the only factor then?
Unlikely!!!! (Unless you're daft enough to think he deliberately plays badly if Player X is on the pitch, to sabotage him. Is that your next theory?)

So should you be blaming him, and only him?

Nope. Unless you are irrationally fixated on him.

It's not rocket science.

It is certainly not rocket science-your x and ys are irrelevant.
Examine the facts:-
We are diabolical at defending away from home
We shipped goals galore at Newcastle, Brentford, Fulham and Norwich.
We even shipped 3 at Forest.
Who is the only member of our back 3/4 to play in all of those games?
In the crazy world of Top Flight if Gunter is the best right-back in the Championship how bad does that make the others that played in those games?

Until Gunter is replaced we continue to have a weak right-back who both Spurs and Forest made the same mistake with as did Reading in splashing out £2million or so believing that they had a potentially good player on their hands who could improve-regrettably IMHO he has not improved in his time with us and there comes a time with every player to move them on and the sooner we do it with him the better especially if we achieve the unexpected and get promoted. .

[WestRoyal]

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

Forget the captaincy, I only mentioned that as you were implying inability to lead.

The most important aspect of those stats is who was playing.

With Player X and Player Y - way worse figures in terms of negative goal difference then with Player Y on his own. Is Player Y likely to be the only factor then?
Unlikely!!!! (Unless you're daft enough to think he deliberately plays badly if Player X is on the pitch, to sabotage him. Is that your next theory?)

So should you be blaming him, and only him?

Nope. Unless you are irrationally fixated on him.

It's not rocket science.

It is certainly not rocket science-your x and ys are irrelevant.
Examine the facts:-
We are diabolical at defending away from home
We shipped goals galore at Newcastle, Brentford, Fulham and Norwich.
We even shipped 3 at Forest.
Who is the only member of our back 3/4 to play in all of those games?
In the crazy world of Top Flight if Gunter is the best right-back in the Championship how bad does that make the others that played in those games?

Until Gunter is replaced we continue to have a weak right-back who both Spurs and Forest made the same mistake with as did Reading in splashing out £2million or so believing that they had a potentially good player on their hands who could improve-regrettably IMHO he has not improved in his time with us and there comes a time with every player to move them on and the sooner we do it with him the better especially if we achieve the unexpected and get promoted. .

Zzzzzz

[Sutekh]

Blimey, can't you read?
You produced some figures regarding the captaincy-I didn't say anything about the captaincy.
My point was that he is a constant and the most constant figure in our poor defence away from home-whether or not he has been captain is irrelevant, we still have a poor defence away from home and he has been there for every game, mainly watching the other side score score masses of goals.

Forget the captaincy, I only mentioned that as you were implying inability to lead.

The most important aspect of those stats is who was playing.

With Player X and Player Y - way worse figures in terms of negative goal difference then with Player Y on his own. Is Player Y likely to be the only factor then?
Unlikely!!!! (Unless you're daft enough to think he deliberately plays badly if Player X is on the pitch, to sabotage him. Is that your next theory?)

So should you be blaming him, and only him?

Nope. Unless you are irrationally fixated on him.

It's not rocket science.

It is certainly not rocket science-your x and ys are irrelevant.
Examine the facts:-
We are diabolical at defending away from home
We shipped goals galore at Newcastle, Brentford, Fulham and Norwich.
We even shipped 3 at Forest.
Who is the only member of our back 3/4 to play in all of those games?
In the crazy world of Top Flight if Gunter is the best right-back in the Championship how bad does that make the others that played in those games?

Until Gunter is replaced we continue to have a weak right-back who both Spurs and Forest made the same mistake with as did Reading in splashing out £2million or so believing that they had a potentially good player on their hands who could improve-regrettably IMHO he has not improved in his time with us and there comes a time with every player to move them on and the sooner we do it with him the better especially if we achieve the unexpected and get promoted. .

[jar95]

Really not sure on the hate for Gunter, he wasn't great on Saturday but then nobody (except maybe Yann and Beerens) had a particularity good game. For me, he is an easy scapegoat for people that need somebody to blame... Not sure who else would be a better replacement...

[CountryRoyal]

Not sure who else would be a better replacement...

Watson.

[muirinho]

Not sure who else would be a better replacement...

Watson.

He'd quickly become the new scapegoat I think. Couldn't stop Reading conceding 2 against Leicester, or Chelsea, in the last two U23 games he played - and we all know how influential the rightback/right wing-back position is, so it was clearly his fault.

[CountryRoyal]

Not sure who else would be a better replacement...

Watson.

He'd quickly become the new scapegoat I think. Couldn't stop Reading conceding 2 against Leicester, or Chelsea, in the last two U23 games he played - and we all know how influential the rightback/right wing-back position is, so it was clearly his fault.

[muirinho]

Watson.

He'd quickly become the new scapegoat I think. Couldn't stop Reading conceding 2 against Leicester, or Chelsea, in the last two U23 games he played - and we all know how influential the rightback/right wing-back position is, so it was clearly his fault.

In all seriousness, I wish he'd been given a few more appearances this season - unfortunately for him because every match has turned out important, Stam wasn't risking him. And because he's ever present on the senior bench, he hasn't had too much opportunity at U23 level either. If we'd made sure of playoffs earlier, he might have got a couple of games - now we might not get it sorted till last game.

[CountryRoyal]

He'd quickly become the new scapegoat I think. Couldn't stop Reading conceding 2 against Leicester, or Chelsea, in the last two U23 games he played - and we all know how influential the rightback/right wing-back position is, so it was clearly his fault.

In all seriousness, I wish he'd been given a few more appearances this season - unfortunately for him because every match has turned out important, Stam wasn't risking him. And because he's ever present on the senior bench, he hasn't had too much opportunity at U23 level either. If we'd made sure of playoffs earlier, he might have got a couple of games - now we might not get it sorted till last game.

I found it funny because of the ridiculous argument posed that Gunter is responsible for our away woes. I too would have liked to see Watson more, and even though I don't rate Gunter particularly highly, imo he's been far more consistent in recent months, and he's seldom our worst player. Like I outlined earlier our defensive problems are far greater than any one player, its just easy to highlight players who make mistakes.

Depending on which division we're in, hopefully Watson can give a really good account of himself over pre-season to give Stam more of a reason to have a look at him.

[Ian Royal]

Hopefully we can beat Wigan on Saturday and Watson can get a start against Burton on the last day.