Injury watch 2017-18 season

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Zip
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by Zip » 15 Apr 2018 12:36

Snowflake Royal wrote:
P!ssed Off wrote:
From Despair To Where? wrote:And that undisclosed fee would have been in the region of £100,000.

However, the club would have known last May that there were long term question marks over McCleary and Harriott's fitness. Beerens was being used less and less so instead of being 5th choice, he's suddenly 2nd or 3rd choice. We hadn't signed Barrow or Aluko at that point so, on the back of 18 months out on loan getting first team experience, there was a very real chance this season would have been a breakthrough one for him. Just as good a reason for offering him a contract as £100,000.


You're thinking of set compensation for youth players.

The 'undisclosed fee' is whatever was agreed by the two clubs, and could very well involve a sell on %.
If compensation is not agreed then a tribunal determines market value.
e.g. Liverpool had to pay £6.5m + add ons for Danny Ings.

I'm sure Fosu was well aware last Summer that the club would continue it's annual tradition of bringing in an abundance of average tat and completely ignoring home grown players.

I thought the Academy system set fixed amounts when it came in. There was certainly hoo-ha at the time about it.

Clearly it's false to say Fosu was no where near the first team or was moved on. But he also clearly wasn't considered ready for the first 18 at the time, unsurprisingly as he'd had a relatively unsuccessful loan spell.

We certainly failed in our use of the likes of Fosu, Stacey, Tanner and Samuel given our recent dearth of good attacking options and spunking of millions on overrated pish like Aluko, Grabban, Piazon and Martin or perma crocks like McCleary and Harriott.

Not to mention mismanaging the defence to let the likes of Dickie, Hyam and Keown all go leaving us with one proper senior fullback and a collection of expensive centrebacks who haven't really done the business with the exception of Moore.



It’s not false to say Fosu was nowhere near the first team. There were five wingers ahead of him. Last May no one would have known how much Beerens form would drop off or for that matter McCleary. Besides if Fosu was close to first team selection why did the club buy Beerens, Harriott, Popa and Bodvarsson? (Bod can play wide too). We already had McCleary with Obita able to play on the wing too.

In addition if Fosu was close to first team selection why do you think he left?

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by Snowflake Royal » 15 Apr 2018 13:03

Zip wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
P!ssed Off wrote:
You're thinking of set compensation for youth players.

The 'undisclosed fee' is whatever was agreed by the two clubs, and could very well involve a sell on %.
If compensation is not agreed then a tribunal determines market value.
e.g. Liverpool had to pay £6.5m + add ons for Danny Ings.

I'm sure Fosu was well aware last Summer that the club would continue it's annual tradition of bringing in an abundance of average tat and completely ignoring home grown players.

I thought the Academy system set fixed amounts when it came in. There was certainly hoo-ha at the time about it.

Clearly it's false to say Fosu was no where near the first team or was moved on. But he also clearly wasn't considered ready for the first 18 at the time, unsurprisingly as he'd had a relatively unsuccessful loan spell.

We certainly failed in our use of the likes of Fosu, Stacey, Tanner and Samuel given our recent dearth of good attacking options and spunking of millions on overrated pish like Aluko, Grabban, Piazon and Martin or perma crocks like McCleary and Harriott.

Not to mention mismanaging the defence to let the likes of Dickie, Hyam and Keown all go leaving us with one proper senior fullback and a collection of expensive centrebacks who haven't really done the business with the exception of Moore.



It’s not false to say Fosu was nowhere near the first team. There were five wingers ahead of him. Last May no one would have known how much Beerens form would drop off or for that matter McCleary. Besides if Fosu was close to first team selection why did the club buy Beerens, Harriott, Popa and Bodvarsson? (Bod can play wide too). We already had McCleary with Obita able to play on the wing too.

In addition if Fosu was close to first team selection why do you think he left?

Because being close =\= regular starts.

It's misleading to say he was behind all our wingers when he's predominantly left sided and some of them are right siders, so simply not in competition. It's also daft including Bod and Obita. You're never nowhere near the first team if your third or fourth in line for winger's position. They're notoriously fragile and peaky in form. It only takes one or two injuries / loss of form and you're straight on the bench. Plenty of that going around. And in any case look at Holmes, there's a player who was genuinely nowhere near the first team at the start of the season... Moore, McShane, Blackett, Ilori, Dickie, Andressen, McIntyre, Osho... all ahead of him.

As I said, it was mismanaged and he should have been given more opportunities to show he had a future here rather than bloat the squad eith mediocre signings as has been the policy for three or four years.

P!ssed Off
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by P!ssed Off » 15 Apr 2018 13:06

Snowflake Royal wrote:
P!ssed Off wrote:
From Despair To Where? wrote:And that undisclosed fee would have been in the region of £100,000.

However, the club would have known last May that there were long term question marks over McCleary and Harriott's fitness. Beerens was being used less and less so instead of being 5th choice, he's suddenly 2nd or 3rd choice. We hadn't signed Barrow or Aluko at that point so, on the back of 18 months out on loan getting first team experience, there was a very real chance this season would have been a breakthrough one for him. Just as good a reason for offering him a contract as £100,000.


You're thinking of set compensation for youth players.

The 'undisclosed fee' is whatever was agreed by the two clubs, and could very well involve a sell on %.
If compensation is not agreed then a tribunal determines market value.
e.g. Liverpool had to pay £6.5m + add ons for Danny Ings.

I'm sure Fosu was well aware last Summer that the club would continue it's annual tradition of bringing in an abundance of average tat and completely ignoring home grown players.

I thought the Academy system set fixed amounts when it came in.


Yes it does.
Those rules apply to academy players, not 21 year olds.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by Snowflake Royal » 15 Apr 2018 13:11

P!ssed Off wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
P!ssed Off wrote:
You're thinking of set compensation for youth players.

The 'undisclosed fee' is whatever was agreed by the two clubs, and could very well involve a sell on %.
If compensation is not agreed then a tribunal determines market value.
e.g. Liverpool had to pay £6.5m + add ons for Danny Ings.

I'm sure Fosu was well aware last Summer that the club would continue it's annual tradition of bringing in an abundance of average tat and completely ignoring home grown players.

I thought the Academy system set fixed amounts when it came in.


Yes it does.
Those rules apply to academy players, not 21 year olds.

Well, ok then.

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by From Despair To Where? » 15 Apr 2018 15:03

P!ssed Off wrote:
From Despair To Where? wrote:And that undisclosed fee would have been in the region of £100,000.

However, the club would have known last May that there were long term question marks over McCleary and Harriott's fitness. Beerens was being used less and less so instead of being 5th choice, he's suddenly 2nd or 3rd choice. We hadn't signed Barrow or Aluko at that point so, on the back of 18 months out on loan getting first team experience, there was a very real chance this season would have been a breakthrough one for him. Just as good a reason for offering him a contract as £100,000.


You're thinking of set compensation for youth players.


No I'm not. What do you think is the going rate for a 21 year old out of contract player with 50 minutes experience in the Championship?

Quoting the £6.5m paid for Danny Ings is laughable considering he has just scored 11 goals in the Premiership and 21 in the Championship the season before. He made his England debut 3 months after moving.


3points
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by 3points » 15 Apr 2018 15:35

Fosu may have also seen Mendes and Meite as potentially ahead of him in the pecking order. Again, not direct competitors but players who could “play anywhere across the front line”

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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by P!ssed Off » 15 Apr 2018 15:41

From Despair To Where? wrote:
P!ssed Off wrote:
From Despair To Where? wrote:And that undisclosed fee would have been in the region of £100,000.

However, the club would have known last May that there were long term question marks over McCleary and Harriott's fitness. Beerens was being used less and less so instead of being 5th choice, he's suddenly 2nd or 3rd choice. We hadn't signed Barrow or Aluko at that point so, on the back of 18 months out on loan getting first team experience, there was a very real chance this season would have been a breakthrough one for him. Just as good a reason for offering him a contract as £100,000.


You're thinking of set compensation for youth players.


No I'm not. What do you think is the going rate for a 21 year old out of contract player with 50 minutes experience in the Championship?

Quoting the £6.5m paid for Danny Ings is laughable considering he has just scored 11 goals in the Premiership and 21 in the Championship the season before. He made his England debut 3 months after moving.


Why wouldn't the club collect a fee and possible future add-ons for a player, rather than give him away for free?
Not sure what you're struggling to grasp here.

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by From Despair To Where? » 15 Apr 2018 15:53

Not struggling to grasp anything other than an obsession with Fosu borne out of a 50 minute cameo three years ago. He seems to have achieved this mythical status whereby he was was the second coming of Gylfi and we let him slip away. I've supported this club long enough to witness enough young players make impressive debuts only to disappear without trace to get too excited about any individual too early.

Yes the club has made mistakes with the academy and some players in particular but it's has also provided a number of our current first team squad as well as in the region of £9m in transfer revenue over the past 3 years alone. I'm more concerned with our preparation over the same period that sees the same players going down with the same injuries over and over again.
Last edited by From Despair To Where? on 15 Apr 2018 16:10, edited 1 time in total.

P!ssed Off
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by P!ssed Off » 15 Apr 2018 16:09

From Despair To Where? wrote:Not struggling to grasp anything other than an obsession with Fosu borne out of a 50 minute cameo three years ago.


10 Fosu posts in under 24 hours.
If anyone's obssessed...


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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by From Despair To Where? » 15 Apr 2018 16:11

Well, it's nice that you care enough to keep tally.

The Cube
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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by The Cube » 15 Apr 2018 20:57

In the length of time the Fosu debate has taken place, he still would not have attempted one pass to a team-mate. Although he would have had some shots, and would probably have managed more on target than the rest of the squad put together.

Anyway, back on topic, Paul Clement seems to be saying that George Evans is injured, although that's not the reason he wasn't in the squad for Sunderland.

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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by Hound » 15 Apr 2018 22:04

Sutekh wrote:
Just interested to know how Obita is getting on, is he on course to return for pre season training. Wonder if he'll still be the same player.


He was a guest when me and my boy lucked out and got the hospitality prize thing

Said he was on track to be back for pre-season, and was training gently again. But still a way to go obviously

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Re: Injury watch 2017-18 season

by SCIAG » 16 Apr 2018 20:11

From Despair To Where? wrote: Beerens was being used less and less so instead of being 5th choice, he's suddenly 2nd or 3rd choice.

Beerens was being used less and less because we increasingly weren't playing with wingers. That would have made it harder for Fosu to break through, not easier.


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