CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

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maffff
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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by maffff » 28 Aug 2017 00:01

SCIAG wrote:That means including lots of lower-level appearances for Edwards (including the same number of Conference games and over 100 fourth-tier games).

Championship alone, Edwards scores twice as often - but Kelly has mostly been used in a deep-lying role, and has been prolific after being pushed forward this season. Swift beats Edwards as comfortably as Edwards beats Kelly.

If they all played 46 games, we'd expect 3 goals from Kelly, 6 or 7 from Edwards, and 11 or 12 from Swift. The most uncertainty surrounds Kelly, while there's fairly little surrounding Edwards (uncertainty, of course, works both ways).


OK, I was only really looking since 2010 - so it's Championship or above. Data suggests you'd expect about 8 from Edwards, 10 from Swift over an entire season, Kelly 3/4. However, the last two years Edwards has actually improved his entire game all round, and he's getting closer to Swift.

Edwards tends to play deeper than Swift. Kelly deeper than Edwards.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by maffff » 28 Aug 2017 00:05

SCIAG wrote:
maffff wrote:
SCIAG wrote:His goalscoring record is good, but not as good as Swift or Kelly (although he's played at a higher level)..


Over his career, including the PL, it eclipses Kelly last season and the beginning of this.

That means including lots of lower-level appearances for Edwards (including the same number of Conference games and over 100 fourth-tier games).

Championship alone, Edwards scores twice as often - but Kelly has mostly been used in a deep-lying role, and has been prolific after being pushed forward this season. Swift beats Edwards as comfortably as Edwards beats Kelly.

If they all played 46 games, we'd expect 3 goals from Kelly, 6 or 7 from Edwards, and 11 or 12 from Swift. The most uncertainty surrounds Kelly, while there's fairly little surrounding Edwards (uncertainty, of course, works both ways).

Hound wrote:Quinn will be off on loan

I like him but he has barely played in 2 years, being injured for the majority

Joey likewise is injury and suspension prone

Would be utterly foolish to rely on those 2 for a 50 game season

Even without those two, we have almost two whole midfields - Evans, Kelly, Bacuna, Swift, and Clement.


Midfield now seems to predominantly be a combination of:
vdB / Evans
Swift / Kelly
Bacuna / Edwards / Quinn

As our starting.

Quinn will go out.
Pelle will be second striker / wing option.

Rinomhota can develop away from the first team pressure. Will likely get on the bench sometimes or go out on loan.

Seems a well balanced side to me for options.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Nameless » 28 Aug 2017 00:28

We're also pretty well covered for injuries, can allow players to recover properly and there will be lots of competition for places.
In a fully fit squad we have options in every position now and we can pretty much field 2 totally different starting X1 and be confident both would be competitive (tricky if they both wanted to play 5 at the back perhaps). Interesting if towards the end of the season Stam makes 11 changes for a game as I'm not sure that would actually constitute playing a 'weakened' team !

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by NewCorkSeth » 28 Aug 2017 08:11

Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:It feels a bit like Edwards and Bacuna are slightly more complete players than our longer serving midfielders.

Quinn's hard working and energetic, but has never struck me as much of a goalscorer ot creator.
Kelly's tenacious and creative but he can get dominated too easily sometimes and he hasn't scored loads.
Swift drifts in and out of games and usually offers little defensively
Joey offers less going forward and can be a walkong yellow card
Evans is probably closest to them, but is still developing.
Clement's still a bit of an unknown quantity but looks similar to Swift.

Seems harsh to lampoon Kelly for not scoring loads.. he has only played 1 season of football. He's on 3 thus far so it would be foolish (imo) to bother including him in this debate!

I'm not lampooning him, he's only going to improve and he's already the heartbeat of the team. But he excels in some areas and is weaker in others. The point I was making is not that Bacuna and Edwards are better, but that they're more allrounders. Which means you don't have quite the same pressure to pick the right combination with the more specialist midfielders.

And I'd say foolish to ignore Kelly seeing as he's clearly a first team regular.

Sorry for being unclear. I thought this was a debate to justify the signing of Edwards.
I presume the signing of Edwards is to add some experience and depth to our midfield. For that reason I meant Kelly doesn't need to be included in any justification.
Edwards is most comparable with Quinn so the only question we really need to ask is "is he better than Quinn?" The answer is probably yes so that should be justification enough for signing him.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Gunny Fishcake » 28 Aug 2017 09:00

Good signing, solid reliable player who will always give you 100 % effort


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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Esteban » 28 Aug 2017 09:06

maffff wrote:
SCIAG wrote:
maffff wrote:
Over his career, including the PL, it eclipses Kelly last season and the beginning of this.

That means including lots of lower-level appearances for Edwards (including the same number of Conference games and over 100 fourth-tier games).

Championship alone, Edwards scores twice as often - but Kelly has mostly been used in a deep-lying role, and has been prolific after being pushed forward this season. Swift beats Edwards as comfortably as Edwards beats Kelly.

If they all played 46 games, we'd expect 3 goals from Kelly, 6 or 7 from Edwards, and 11 or 12 from Swift. The most uncertainty surrounds Kelly, while there's fairly little surrounding Edwards (uncertainty, of course, works both ways).

Hound wrote:Quinn will be off on loan

I like him but he has barely played in 2 years, being injured for the majority

Joey likewise is injury and suspension prone

Would be utterly foolish to rely on those 2 for a 50 game season

Even without those two, we have almost two whole midfields - Evans, Kelly, Bacuna, Swift, and Clement.


Midfield now seems to predominantly be a combination of:
vdB / Evans
Swift / Kelly
Bacuna / Edwards / Quinn

As our starting.

Quinn will go out.
Pelle will be second striker / wing option.

Rinomhota can develop away from the first team pressure. Will likely get on the bench sometimes or go out on loan.

Seems a well balanced side to me for options.


+1. Quinn is almost certainly on his way and I don't think Clement was ever in the frame for a CM role, unless we had nobody else to put in there. Rinomhota will provide back-up.

I haven't been convinced by Kelly and Swift in the same midfield in the system we play. Kelly ends up playing deeper and I think he's far better in an advanced role. Will be interesting to see how Stam utilises them, now that we have options.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by NewCorkSeth » 28 Aug 2017 10:34

It's interesting that everyone seems to be in agreement that we should play a 3 man midfield.
Are we playing a 5-3-2 or a 5-2-3-1?
If its the first option we are going to have trouble squeezing McCleary, Beerens, Barrow, Popa, Clement and Harriott into one position.
If it's the second only 1 of Kelly, Swift or Clement can really start.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by 2 world wars, 1 world cup » 28 Aug 2017 11:55

Delighted that we have another midfielder.

The squad's been crying out for a few more midfielders and we finally have another one.

A couple more midfielders and we should be ok in that area.

We could also do with getting rid of a couple of strikers to make room and funds available for them.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Snowflake Royal » 28 Aug 2017 12:06

NewCorkSeth wrote:It's interesting that everyone seems to be in agreement that we should play a 3 man midfield.
Are we playing a 5-3-2 or a 5-2-3-1?
If its the first option we are going to have trouble squeezing McCleary, Beerens, Barrow, Popa, Clement and Harriott into one position.
If it's the second only 1 of Kelly, Swift or Clement can really start.


I think we'll switch it up between 3-5-2 & 4-3-3 depending on location and opposition. So in some home games you'll probably see four attacking players on the pitch, not including Kelly. Whilst in others it'll be two upfront and maybe one like Swift in midfield.


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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Hound » 28 Aug 2017 12:09

It's a nice evolvement of the squad and Stam's management

Certainly see us being 4-3-3 at home and 5-3-2 away more often than not. Would expect the likes of Beerens, Swift and maybe even McCleary featuring far more often at home than away and vice versa with Joey and Edwards

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by CountryRoyal » 28 Aug 2017 12:28

Worth remembering that whilst he might not be the most technically gifted midfielder, a player with his experience (and by all account temperament) can only be beneficial to the squad even if its not in a playing capacity. It's easy to forget that we have a young squad and with Quinn going out on loan an older head with huge amounts of championship experience can only be a good thing.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by genome » 28 Aug 2017 13:31

CountryRoyal wrote:Worth remembering that whilst he might not be the most technically gifted midfielder, a player with his experience (and by all account temperament) can only be beneficial to the squad even if its not in a playing capacity. It's easy to forget that we have a young squad and with Quinn going out on loan an older head with huge amounts of championship experience can only be a good thing.


Changed your mind then?

CountryRoyal wrote:oxf*rd me.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by SCIAG » 28 Aug 2017 13:40

NewCorkSeth wrote:It's interesting that everyone seems to be in agreement that we should play a 3 man midfield.
Are we playing a 5-3-2 or a 5-2-3-1?
If its the first option we are going to have trouble squeezing McCleary, Beerens, Barrow, Popa, Clement and Harriott into one position.
If it's the second only 1 of Kelly, Swift or Clement can really start.

Guessing you mean 5-3-2 or 5-2-3.

I really don't like 5-3-2. We're much better off with wingers, and all our strikers are basically the same so don't suit a partnership. It leaves the strikers isolated, we lack width, and we have more defensive players than we could ever need.

5-2-3 is OK. Ideally one of the centre backs would be a defensive midfielder, and both the midfielders would be capable of attacking and defending - Kelly and Bacuna? Even Swift and Clement look good defensively. Wouldn't really want Joey or Evans in the midfield.

4-3-3 should be our main formation, switching to 5-2-3/3-4-3 when appropriate. Unless we sign a quick striker who is of similar quality to Kermorgant, we shouldn't be using 5-3-2/3-5-2.

Strongest team: Mannone; Gunter, Ilori, Moore, Obita; Evans/Joey, Kelly, Swift/Clement; McCleary, Kermorgant, Beerens
or
Mannone; Gunter, Ilori, Evans, Moore, Obita; Kelly, Bacuna; McCleary, Kermorgant, Beerens


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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by CountryRoyal » 28 Aug 2017 13:50

genome wrote:
CountryRoyal wrote:Worth remembering that whilst he might not be the most technically gifted midfielder, a player with his experience (and by all account temperament) can only be beneficial to the squad even if its not in a playing capacity. It's easy to forget that we have a young squad and with Quinn going out on loan an older head with huge amounts of championship experience can only be a good thing.


Changed your mind then?

CountryRoyal wrote:oxf*rd me.


Yep.

As with most of our signings this I've been thoroughly underwhelmed initially. See Bod, Barrow and Bacuna, even without seeing them kick a ball for us. Partly from not being impressed when I've seen them, but probably more pertinently going by friends who follow their previous clubs and also message boards etc.

However I have also, not too long after expressing initial underwhelment (pretty sure I've just made up that word) gone on to say that in Stam we trust and to be open minded. This is no different as it just needed me to think about things. Also the negatives I've heard re Edwards were playing ability but I didn't realise just how well thought of he was amongst their fans.

I never write anyone off before I see them play for us, just like I don't wet myself after a couple of good performances - some on twitter already claiming Barrow is amazing... it's 5 games in let's just see how it goes but for sure so far said signings are proving to be shrewd business, Bacuna including.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Lower West » 28 Aug 2017 14:31

CountryRoyal wrote:However I have also, not too long after expressing initial underwhelment (pretty sure I've just made up that word) gone on to say that in Stam we trust and to be open minded.


Is Brian that is finding the right type of player. Seems as if they are looking for players with certain qualities (as Stam likes to say it). Reading may not have a squad of super star individuals. What it does seem to be creating is a spirit and togetherness not seen the days of Steve Coppell. Where every one is a Captain in their own right.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by NewCorkSeth » 28 Aug 2017 14:47

SCIAG wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:It's interesting that everyone seems to be in agreement that we should play a 3 man midfield.
Are we playing a 5-3-2 or a 5-2-3-1?
If its the first option we are going to have trouble squeezing McCleary, Beerens, Barrow, Popa, Clement and Harriott into one position.
If it's the second only 1 of Kelly, Swift or Clement can really start.

Guessing you mean 5-3-2 or 5-2-3.

I really don't like 5-3-2. We're much better off with wingers, and all our strikers are basically the same so don't suit a partnership. It leaves the strikers isolated, we lack width, and we have more defensive players than we could ever need.

5-2-3 is OK. Ideally one of the centre backs would be a defensive midfielder, and both the midfielders would be capable of attacking and defending - Kelly and Bacuna? Even Swift and Clement look good defensively. Wouldn't really want Joey or Evans in the midfield.

4-3-3 should be our main formation, switching to 5-2-3/3-4-3 when appropriate. Unless we sign a quick striker who is of similar quality to Kermorgant, we shouldn't be using 5-3-2/3-5-2.

Strongest team: Mannone; Gunter, Ilori, Moore, Obita; Evans/Joey, Kelly, Swift/Clement; McCleary, Kermorgant, Beerens
or
Mannone; Gunter, Ilori, Evans, Moore, Obita; Kelly, Bacuna; McCleary, Kermorgant, Beerens

Yes I did make a mistake there. Although playing 12 would be good too.
I agree on the 5-3-2. It leaves us flat. We can't rely on our wing backs alone to provide front the wings.
The 5-2-3 leaves us short in midfield imo.
I would like to see something like this:
------------GK------------
-------DC------DC------
RWB----DMC----LWB
--------MC----MC------
AMR---------------AML
------------ST------------

That could fluidly turn into this:

------------GK------------
------DC--DC--DC------
RWB----------------LWB
--------MC----MC------
AMR---------------AML
------------ST------------

Or this:

------------GK------------
-------DC------DC------
RWB---------------LWB
--------MC----MC------
AMR----AMC----AML
------------ST------------

Depending on the situation.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by From Despair To Where? » 28 Aug 2017 20:44

I think there is also one eye to beyond this season with this signing. Both Quinn and Van den Berg are out of contract at the end of the season and their fitness issues, I can't see either getting a new deal. One less player to sign next summer.

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Hound » 28 Aug 2017 20:48

I think Joey would prob sign for another year

Useful bloke to have around and I suspect relatively cheap wages wise

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by Steve_Upper_West » 28 Aug 2017 21:55

linkenholtroyal wrote:I know there both Welsh and I'm not saying all Welsh people look the same, but is it just me or do Dave Edwards and Gunter look like they could be brothers?


I think you probably meant to say "I know THEY ARE both Welsh"

Are you and Jeremy Clarkson brothers..... your comments are equally puerile ?

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Re: CONFIMRED - Dave Edwards

by 3points » 29 Aug 2017 13:12

Apparently Edwards was quoted last season talking to Wolves fans that he has such a high tackle count because his first touch is so bad that every second touch is a tackle. Sounds an ideal replacement for Struggle Pig

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