Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by Hound » 20 Sep 2017 21:16

Is interesting and does make you wonder about what constitutes success for Reading out of their academy. It's obv something the club are rightfully proud of but that cost is a big burden on the club - afaik the Academy sides start at U9 level and the feeder 'Development' centres start at U7. That's a lot of coaches to pay

Must make it esp frustrating for the owners when the likes of HRK then leave on a free :|

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by From Despair To Where? » 20 Sep 2017 21:52

On balance, I think it's worth it. In a game of incremental gains, I think it gives us an advantage over some of our rivals. When you consider the way the transfer market has gone this summer, if we can average 1 player a year establishing themselves in the first team squad, I think it pays for itself.

There's also unquantifiable benefits to having Cat 1 status.

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by 3points » 20 Sep 2017 23:16

I believe it costs closer to £4m a year though there's incentives which reduces the net cost to about £3m, but the cash goes out first. I think a Cat 3 is around a million a year. Blackburn, I believe, have or will soon downgrade from a Cat 1 to a Cat 3 to reduce their overall running costs. Their tactic is to pick up players like Samuel being released by the Cat 1 clubs.

The argument for "bringing an academy up to speed" is that it is such a long term investment, a minimum of 10 years, as kids need to be brought in from the age of 8. You can see why more transient owners might want to cut it and just pick up the scraps from other teams.

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by Hound » 21 Sep 2017 06:45

I very much suspect the emergence of Kelly and Obita is enough to answer the question for a few years yet.

As said if we could add one player to the first team squad each season it's job done

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by Stranded » 21 Sep 2017 08:01

Huddersfield's decision shows the inherent flaw of the Academy system since EPPP. They can find an incredibly talented 8 year old in their area and train him on to be a top talket at 14/15, at which point any Cat 1 can just nick him for next to nothing. If the player is in the England set up, they are "encouraged" to move towards a Cat 1 club if they are not.

By moving down to Cat 4, Huddersfield can use their new found profile (esp assuming they stay in the PL for a few years) to offer 16-18 year olds a clearer path to first team football, so they see this as a way to perhaps pick up some talented players from other clubs (even Cat 1) and also abroad who would perhaps disappear in the Cat 1 system.


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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by SCIAG » 21 Sep 2017 19:53

From Despair To Where? Reading into it more some of the criteria for a Cat 1 academy, that £2.5m is just the annual running costs. To get Cat 1, among other things, you need:

A full time dedicated coach for every 8 academy players

A full sized floodlit pitch (this does not include the first team stadium)

A full size indoor pitch for all weather use.

A match analysis suite.

Etc etc etc. These are set up costs that could run into the millions before you even factor in the an running costs. It's mental. You can now begin to understand why clubs baulk at investing and just give up on their academies, they have absolutely no chance of competing. It's a policy designed to exclude and the more I read about it the more I realise just how fcuking lucky we are to be a smaller club feeding at the top table.

The question is who is it benefiting?

If the main beneficiaries are the big clubs who get to sign the next Sterling for a fraction of his real worth then that's bad.
While it's a potential concern, I don't think that's why it was implemented and nor is it the main impact of the changes.
When EPPP was announced, only three clubs met the criteria for Category 1: Man United, Chelsea, and Southampton. To get the advantages of Cat 1, even the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal had to invest much more money in their academies. Even if Brentford and Huddersfield decide it's not worth spending £1m a year to have a second rate academy, I instinctively feel like EPPP has hugely increased investment in youth football, which is good for the players themselves, the national teams, and of course the clubs themselves.

For every QPR academy player who signs for cheap for Liverpool, there's two players who Liverpool invest a lot of money in but end up going to QPR. Huddersfield are basically having their young talent developed for them by the Manchester clubs.

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by The Royal Forester » 21 Sep 2017 20:32

Hound Is interesting and does make you wonder about what constitutes success for Reading out of their academy. It's obv something the club are rightfully proud of but that cost is a big burden on the club - afaik the Academy sides start at U9 level and the feeder 'Development' centres start at U7. That's a lot of coaches to pay

Must make it esp frustrating for the owners when the likes of HRK then leave on a free :|



It is not all about what we get for players when they move on to pastures new. It is also about how much we save when the youngsters graduate to senior football, how many millions of pounds would Kelly and Obita cost us if we signed them from rival clubs

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by Hound » 21 Sep 2017 20:40

Yeah sure, Fair point.

Still must have knashed a few teeth when we possibly could have got 2-3m for him the season before

From the other points - I suppose we are fairly lucky that we are able to look at kids from London and Hoover up anyone decent west of the capital. Certainly less competition than Udders or Brentford (though I know of a Reading boy who joined Brentford for a while)

Interesting thread anyway

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Re: Under 23"s Supposedly not ready for first team football.

by Crowbar6753 » 21 Sep 2017 22:43

Its a tough call, but having a fine tuned Cat 1 Academy must surly outweigh having a Cat 3 Academy every time? Our Academy is still evolving but his already produced some good players, and in the case of Gylfi and Kelly one world class player and one potential world class player.
If you look at some of the potential in the under 18s, 21s and 23s we have a bright future and if we can get some league time at Reading FC out of these players then great, if not let them go and ensure we get a decent sell on clause put in for good measure, just in case we have another Gylfi on our hands.
Swansea to Everton for 45Million, 10% of that would have been nice :D


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