In or Out?

504 posts

Stam - In or Out?

In
100
42%
Out
106
44%
Shake it all about
16
7%
Ian Royal
17
7%
 
Total votes: 239
Hound
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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 11:48

John Swift
The 22-year-old said: "The last thing any players want to have here is a change of manager, that would be the worst decision.

"He's a good guy and we're trying to do the same thing as last season and really push on and create chances in the same way as we did last year.

"Hopefully the fans can stick with us, not get on our backs too much and we hope we can change it around soon."


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Re: In or Out?

by stanmoreroyal » 23 Oct 2017 12:53

I don't think we will be relegated but Stam really hasn't got long to show he can adapt and get more out of the players he has.
The point that was made been Kevin Dillon about the Sheffield Utd team being entirely British is very interesting.
We have an excellent academy and these players are being discarded in favour of so called better players? But do they care enough about winning? Watching the football over the past two seasons (albeit that we luckily snuck into that play off final) out is ponderous, boring, predictable and now proving less successful.
I accept that Stam has a 'name ' and it would appear to attract some players. However I think there's a real danger of raising his status too high. Most of our previous managers showed the ability to produce better performances from leaner, less able squads. Moreover we enjoyed entertaining, end to end games where the team had the crowd behind them. The number of times I left the Mad Stad last season feeling embarrassed and dissatisfied even having won or drawn a game, because the entertainment levels were pathetically low. The crowd desperately trying to find something to cheer, as the ball was played in a series of triangles by Al Habsi and the centre backs.
He has to adapt or be sacked.

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Re: In or Out?

by Norfolk Royal » 23 Oct 2017 13:06

* Breaking news * Dutch manager sacked. Koeman.

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 13:32

Norfolk Royal * Breaking news * Dutch manager sacked. Koeman.


no surprise. Watched a bit of them yesterday, they were shockingly bad. No way back from that sort of performance

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Re: In or Out?

by mambo3 » 23 Oct 2017 16:01

Dutch football is out of date. No surprise to see Dutch Managers being sacked. Can't be a coincidence. The Dutch Managers have had enough time to make things right. Stam needs to wake up and smell the roses or rather Tulips. Chinese seem to have given him the funds and backing. So the owners are ok in my book. Stam bought strikers but turned them into something else. live by the sword die by the sword


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Re: In or Out?

by windermereROYAL » 23 Oct 2017 16:05

Interesting comment I picked up on GR. could so easily be talking about us.

Interesting reading the predominant reason given today for Koeman's departure from Everton. He managed to sign several players for the same position but not a striker that was badly needed. Is it a failing for ex defenders?

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 16:14

windermereROYAL Interesting comment I picked up on GR. could so easily be talking about us.

Interesting reading the predominant reason given today for Koeman's departure from Everton. He managed to sign several players for the same position but not a striker that was badly needed. Is it a failing for ex defenders?


yeah saw that. But do people think its Stam going round deciding who to buy and negotiating with the clubs? I've pretty much no doubt he said the BT 'Get me a striker' - and worked with him on the list which included Hugill, Hemed and Oliveira, and they failed to do that.

And to be honest JDB has been pretty good everytime I have seen him. He just has been injured half the time.

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 16:18

mambo3 Dutch football is out of date. No surprise to see Dutch Managers being sacked. Can't be a coincidence. The Dutch Managers have had enough time to make things right. Stam needs to wake up and smell the roses or rather Tulips. Chinese seem to have given him the funds and backing. So the owners are ok in my book. Stam bought strikers but turned them into something else. live by the sword die by the sword


It is a coincidence. So the two or 3 dutch managers in the league haven't done esp well this year. It doesn't mean all Dutch football is out of date. Their national team is a mess - and thats just due to current lack of talent. Still picking the likes of Sneijder, RVP and even bloody Ryan Babel

Koeman's sides don't even play like we try to from what I have seen of them. De Boer was a sh!t appointment and was given no time whatsoever. I think he was sacked more due to the poor impression he made on the players with his lack of prep and trying to change too much too soon. Also wasn't backed in the transfer market like Koeman and Stam

Just coz they are all Dutch doesn't mean they all are doing the same thing wrong.

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genome
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Re: In or Out?

by genome » 23 Oct 2017 17:11

Is it overanalysing to notice that Stam has been taken off the We Are Reading bus liveries? :shock:


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Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 23 Oct 2017 18:19

Hound
windermereROYAL Interesting comment I picked up on GR. could so easily be talking about us.

Interesting reading the predominant reason given today for Koeman's departure from Everton. He managed to sign several players for the same position but not a striker that was badly needed. Is it a failing for ex defenders?


yeah saw that. But do people think its Stam going round deciding who to buy and negotiating with the clubs? I've pretty much no doubt he said the BT 'Get me a striker' - and worked with him on the list which included Hugill, Hemed and Oliveira, and they failed to do that.

And to be honest JDB has been pretty good everytime I have seen him. He just has been injured half the time.


Of course Stam put a list forward for his targets, 100% he did. Agreed it’s not his job to negotiate the deal but he’ll put his targets forward.

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Oct 2017 18:27

Oilroyal
Hound
windermereROYAL Interesting comment I picked up on GR. could so easily be talking about us.

Interesting reading the predominant reason given today for Koeman's departure from Everton. He managed to sign several players for the same position but not a striker that was badly needed. Is it a failing for ex defenders?


yeah saw that. But do people think its Stam going round deciding who to buy and negotiating with the clubs? I've pretty much no doubt he said the BT 'Get me a striker' - and worked with him on the list which included Hugill, Hemed and Oliveira, and they failed to do that.

And to be honest JDB has been pretty good everytime I have seen him. He just has been injured half the time.


Of course Stam put a list forward for his targets, 100% he does. Agreed it’s not his job to negotiate the deal but he’ll put his targets forward.

He'll give his requirements, which will include some names inevitably, but the scouts and BT will also find their own names and present them to him.

There can really only be a little fault laid at Stam's door for the striker situation. It was clearly a position we targeted to recruit. We did get one in. We failed to get one of another 3 - 5 options (Hemed, that Dutch bloke, Oliviera, maybe Hugill, maybe Wells - I'm sure I'm forgetting someone) that we targeted. You can argue that we targeted the wrong players, or persisted with them for too long.

But we all know there'd be people complaining we didn't push harder for Oliviera or Hugill and that we hadn't bought good enough quality if we'd gone for someone less high profile or experienced from the lower leagues. Or if we'd got in someone from abroad.

The simple fact is, people will complain if they don't think the results are good enough, and it doesn't matter what the club did or tried to do.

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Oilroyal
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Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 23 Oct 2017 18:31

Snowflake Royal
Oilroyal
Hound
yeah saw that. But do people think its Stam going round deciding who to buy and negotiating with the clubs? I've pretty much no doubt he said the BT 'Get me a striker' - and worked with him on the list which included Hugill, Hemed and Oliveira, and they failed to do that.

And to be honest JDB has been pretty good everytime I have seen him. He just has been injured half the time.


Of course Stam put a list forward for his targets, 100% he does. Agreed it’s not his job to negotiate the deal but he’ll put his targets forward.

He'll give his requirements, which will include some names inevitably, but the scouts and BT will also find their own names and present them to him.

There can really only be a little fault laid at Stam's door for the striker situation. It was clearly a position we targeted to recruit. We did get one in. We failed to get one of another 3 - 5 options (Hemed, that Dutch bloke, Oliviera, maybe Hugill, maybe Wells - I'm sure I'm forgetting someone) that we targeted. You can argue that we targeted the wrong players, or persisted with them for too long.

But we all know there'd be people complaining we didn't push harder for Oliviera or Hugill and that we hadn't bought good enough quality if we'd gone for someone less high profile or experienced from the lower leagues. Or if we'd got in someone from abroad.

The simple fact is, people will complain if they don't think the results are good enough, and it doesn't matter what the club did or tried to do.


I was amazed we didn't go in for Daryl Murphy

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 18:53

In retrospect so am I

But when it was brought up on the rumours thread it was hardly greeted with enthusiasm. By the time we got round to looking suspect he was long gone anyway


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CountryRoyal
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Re: In or Out?

by CountryRoyal » 23 Oct 2017 19:17

Hound
Norfolk Royal * Breaking news * Dutch manager sacked. Koeman.


no surprise. Watched a bit of them yesterday, they were shockingly bad. No way back from that sort of performance


Still a million times better than half the shit we are used to.

mambo3
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Re: In or Out?

by mambo3 » 23 Oct 2017 19:42

Hound
mambo3 Dutch football is out of date. No surprise to see Dutch Managers being sacked. Can't be a coincidence. The Dutch Managers have had enough time to make things right. Stam needs to wake up and smell the roses or rather Tulips. Chinese seem to have given him the funds and backing. So the owners are ok in my book. Stam bought strikers but turned them into something else. live by the sword die by the sword


It is a coincidence. So the two or 3 dutch managers in the league haven't done esp well this year. It doesn't mean all Dutch football is out of date. Their national team is a mess - and thats just due to current lack of talent. Still picking the likes of Sneijder, RVP and even bloody Ryan Babel

Koeman's sides don't even play like we try to from what I have seen of them. De Boer was a sh!t appointment and was given no time whatsoever. I think he was sacked more due to the poor impression he made on the players with his lack of prep and trying to change too much too soon. Also wasn't backed in the transfer market like Koeman and Stam

Just coz they are all Dutch doesn't mean they all are doing the same thing wrong.


Your first 2 paragraphs answered your 3rd paragraph

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 20:10

What?

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Re: In or Out?

by SCIAG » 26 Oct 2017 18:51

genome And by the way, comparing Man City's implementation to Reading's is foolhardy - Man City (as Barcelona) have world class players whereas we have Championship level players :|

Is it any more foolhardy than comparing Everton's implementation to Reading's? That's what raised the Man City example.

People keep saying "short passing can never work! Everton! Palace! DUTCH!!!" conveniently ignoring all the times it has worked and is working. People also try to make out like all Dutch managers play the same way (bizarrely lumping Van Gaal in with Koeman) and describing some very defensive teams as "total football".

The issue isn't that Stam is Dutch or that we use short passing, it's that it isn't working right now.

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 26 Oct 2017 20:20

Yep that

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Re: In or Out?

by Dr_Hfuhruhurr » 28 Oct 2017 17:30

I cant work out if the issue is the manager or the club.

I really can't remember the last time we scouted a transfer window for what we wanted/needed in the squad. Instead, we hired a lot of journeymen, primarily midfielders. Each time we change the manager, they feel the need to add another 5 nobodies, primarily midfielders, to the line up. We are a long, long way away from the focus of the Hammond/McDermott era. If you're going to build a squad like this, its no wonder that nobody knows the pecking order, and when nobody knows the pecking order, you roll over easily if you concede the first goal.

If this is like McDermott's first sack, when he took the fall for a chairman who didnt know what he was doing, then Stam should stay and we concentrate on getting our shit in order. We sell a stack a players in in January and start a squad from the remains. if Stam has bought into a confusing squad structure because he believes that every player should be able to play every position, then, fck it, he goes. We still need to sell in January. Clogging up your wage bill with players who cant get above 20th is never worth it.

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leon
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Re: In or Out?

by leon » 28 Oct 2017 17:56

Dr_Hfuhruhurr I cant work out if the issue is the manager or the club.

I really can't remember the last time we scouted a transfer window for what we wanted/needed in the squad. Instead, we hired a lot of journeymen, primarily midfielders. Each time we change the manager, they feel the need to add another 5 nobodies, primarily midfielders, to the line up. We are a long, long way away from the focus of the Hammond/McDermott era. If you're going to build a squad like this, its no wonder that nobody knows the pecking order, and when nobody knows the pecking order, you roll over easily if you concede the first goal.

If this is like McDermott's first sack, when he took the fall for a chairman who didnt know what he was doing, then Stam should stay and we concentrate on getting our shit in order. We sell a stack a players in in January and start a squad from the remains. if Stam has bought into a confusing squad structure because he believes that every player should be able to play every position, then, fck it, he goes. We still need to sell in January. Clogging up your wage bill with players who cant get above 20th is never worth it.


Great post. Alas I'm tending towards the latter.

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