In or Out?

504 posts

Stam - In or Out?

In
100
42%
Out
106
44%
Shake it all about
16
7%
Ian Royal
17
7%
 
Total votes: 239
RegularRoyal
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Re: In or Out?

by RegularRoyal » 28 Dec 2017 22:12

My first post here, but my daughter and I have been season ticket holders for the last 10 years, so we've seen the good times as well as the bad.

For me, it has to be a very definite OUT. Football is supposed to be an entertainment business. Where's the entertainment?

Last year we got the results, but for me, it was still hugely lacking in entertainment, bar a few games.

This season has been turgid in the extreme. Even the few games I think of as having been reasonable this season I would have rated as poor before the Stam era.

Unless Stam goes, or he changes the way this team play, I won't be renewing my season ticket. Sorry if it doesn't sound as though I am a loyal Royal, but the football has become painful to watch, and there's only so much pain I can take.

alfie9
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Re: In or Out?

by alfie9 » 29 Dec 2017 05:07

I'm still Stam in and will still be Stam in if we lose to Barnsley. I think our best chance of escaping the cycle of mediocrity we've been in for about 5 years is to keep some stability at the club. Look at Lee Johnson and Bristol City, this time last season there forums were about 5x worse than ours with regards to moaning (I had to have a look after that second-half meltdown in *that win*) and look at them now. The criticism was very similar, LJ is tactically inept, players are uninspired, etc, etc

And while I know I'm the millionth person to offer this sentiment but, who are we replacing him with? There's not a single manager currently in the unemployment pool that excites me. Jaap is still a young manager, last season he showed us what he's capable of and I think he will learn from our failures this season.

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowball » 29 Dec 2017 10:39

I more or less agree with you Alfie
but my problem is not the results, but the fact
that the games are so often dull

Occasionally, we play a breathtaking mood (and I think, with luck, this is a team which could win ten games on the trot if it really had confidence - we're a confidence side) but, in general, our style seems to negate fight.

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Y21
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Re: In or Out?

by Y21 » 29 Dec 2017 10:49

royalp-we wrote:Last season was fantastic and expections for improvements were inevitable heading in to this season.

Annoyingly we haven't built on the success - but this is a 3 year plan. The local press have reported Stam won't be backed financially in the transfer window; which says to me, they are now writing this season off. Which makes sense gven our current league position.

The coaching staff will no doubt be spinning this to the owners as a season to build, then go for promotion next year or the year after.

I too think Stam should stay, you can't have a 3 year plan and just sack the manager when things are going badly, we aren't going to turn out world beating football consistently for 3 years without spending mega bucks.

Don't get me wrong, for the first time in my life I have dreaded turning up to some games this season as it really has been dire. But I'm not in agreement with the manager merry go round and I'm happy to view this as a season of building; and the owners prolly will too.


Do you think the second year of the 3 year plan was to go backwards and play turgid football? Probably not. In which case, surely it means that the plan isn't working, and perhaps we should look at plan B. Or someone else and their great plan for our club.

windermereROYAL
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Re: In or Out?

by windermereROYAL » 29 Dec 2017 11:20

RegularRoyal wrote:My first post here, but my daughter and I have been season ticket holders for the last 10 years, so we've seen the good times as well as the bad.

For me, it has to be a very definite OUT. Football is supposed to be an entertainment business. Where's the entertainment?

Last year we got the results, but for me, it was still hugely lacking in entertainment, bar a few games.

This season has been turgid in the extreme. Even the few games I think of as having been reasonable this season I would have rated as poor before the Stam era.

Unless Stam goes, or he changes the way this team play, I won't be renewing my season ticket. Sorry if it doesn't sound as though I am a loyal Royal, but the football has become painful to watch, and there's only so much pain I can take.


10 years season ticket holder and seen the bad times?. I feel your pain. :shock:


double d
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Re: In or Out?

by double d » 29 Dec 2017 11:30

windermereROYAL wrote:
RegularRoyal wrote:My first post here, but my daughter and I have been season ticket holders for the last 10 years, so we've seen the good times as well as the bad.

For me, it has to be a very definite OUT. Football is supposed to be an entertainment business. Where's the entertainment?

Last year we got the results, but for me, it was still hugely lacking in entertainment, bar a few games.

This season has been turgid in the extreme. Even the few games I think of as having been reasonable this season I would have rated as poor before the Stam era.

Unless Stam goes, or he changes the way this team play, I won't be renewing my season ticket. Sorry if it doesn't sound as though I am a loyal Royal, but the football has become painful to watch, and there's only so much pain I can take.


10 years season ticket holder and seen the bad times?. I feel your pain. :shock:


Obviously the 'bad times' for the majority is being relegated from the PL

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Re: In or Out?

by Victor Meldrew » 29 Dec 2017 11:40

Y21 wrote:
royalp-we wrote:Last season was fantastic and expections for improvements were inevitable heading in to this season.

Annoyingly we haven't built on the success - but this is a 3 year plan. The local press have reported Stam won't be backed financially in the transfer window; which says to me, they are now writing this season off. Which makes sense gven our current league position.

The coaching staff will no doubt be spinning this to the owners as a season to build, then go for promotion next year or the year after.

I too think Stam should stay, you can't have a 3 year plan and just sack the manager when things are going badly, we aren't going to turn out world beating football consistently for 3 years without spending mega bucks.

Don't get me wrong, for the first time in my life I have dreaded turning up to some games this season as it really has been dire. But I'm not in agreement with the manager merry go round and I'm happy to view this as a season of building; and the owners prolly will too.


Do you think the second year of the 3 year plan was to go backwards and play turgid football? Probably not. In which case, surely it means that the plan isn't working, and perhaps we should look at plan B. Or someone else and their great plan for our club.


So 18 months into the masterplan schedule and all we see is a team where the back 4 or 5 have more possession than anybody else in the side and that in our own half.
Those players are defenders for a reason-they are not good enough passers to play in midfield or up front, nor are they very good when put under pressure in possession.

For this plan to be any good we need 4 or 5 Beckenbauers at the back to play the telling passes plus a midfield that can move the ball forward with pace.
I'm not sure Stam will be given the money to bring in players of the required level and the development of our younger players seems incredibly slow so what is the 3-year plan?
To do a Wigan or Blackburn and drop to Div 1 and rebuild?
If so that is a very dangerous strategy.

Up until now I have been 50/50 about Stam but I do fear that his players are not listening so maybe it is time for a new manager who will make them listen.
BTW anybody watching Bolton will see that Parky doesn't just play long-ball to a big striker (Madine is not very big) and an earlier poster made the point that he got his side promoted but then had to sell his best 2 players and operate under a transfer embargo.
IMHO he would not be the worst replacement.

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowball » 29 Dec 2017 12:07

Let us not forget that our 19 goal striker (last year) is goal-less this year

We have lost our first-choice left back, a first-choice CB is clearly on the wane,
we lost a talismanic keeper and (allegedly) our driving force in midfield.

If we had bought a striker who was now on say 10 goals, we'd probably be top six

Going forward (if the defence was rock-solid, which it ain't)
we have the kind of players (except for the striker) to rip
apart many sides. I also think that if we DID manage 4-5 wins
that the flair players would look 20% better.

We probably need a McShane replacement (or "fix" Ilori) and,
clearly, a free-scoring striker.

Long in his pomp would have had a fantastic season with these midfielders

mambo3
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Re: In or Out?

by mambo3 » 29 Dec 2017 12:57

Stam is going no where.

Hes taken a page out of Tony Pulis book. Signed new contract as well as his assistants probably on mega money.
Cost Reading the earth to sack them. no wonder he can say what he likes.
Good luck to him. if I had employers like Reading I would do the same. its called playing the system.


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Re: In or Out?

by SCIAG » 29 Dec 2017 13:36

Y21 wrote:
Do you think the second year of the 3 year plan was to go backwards and play turgid football? Probably not. In which case, surely it means that the plan isn't working, and perhaps we should look at plan B. Or someone else and their great plan for our club.

We're only "going backwards" because Stam did better than expected last year.

I imagine the three year plan was something like

1) Comfortably avoid relegation.
2) Sign better players and play better football.
3) Get promoted.

Now of course there's a great deal of subjectivity as to what constitutes "better" football and whether we're actually playing better or worse. But I think we've got more players who are capable of creating chances, more ways of scoring, and much greater flexibility in how we play. We're much better at playing out from the back. This time last year people kept saying that we'd "been found out" by "the high press", but now when teams press us we just pass around them. If you think that's boring then OK, but there's definitely been stylistic progression.

Royal_jimmy
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Re: In or Out?

by Royal_jimmy » 29 Dec 2017 13:50

I can only see the club sacking Stam if we get dragged into the relegation scrap. The reason for why is that the club have signed a lot of our players on 3-4 year deals. This is not a short term project, the board have clearly decided that they want to try and instill some stability after sacking 3 managers in under 2 years.

I think as long as we are looking like we won't go down, the club will persist.

I for one don't like that approach when the football is boring, we look toothless and soft but I think we will just have to learn to like it.

I can only see the club parting with Stam if 1) we look like relegation candidates or 2) we start next season off badly as the club will be targeting another promotion push next year and Stam would be 'cheaper to sack'

I personally don't mind the football that much. I just feel frustrated at Stam's lack of ability or stubbornness to adapt the style of play to our players as I don't think that current style is something that they look comfortable with

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Y21
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Re: In or Out?

by Y21 » 29 Dec 2017 13:54

SCIAG wrote:We're only "going backwards" because Stam did better than expected last year.


I see that idea and similar bandied about quite a lot on here...but surely a decent manager would have been able to kick on from there and make a fist of this season, rather be a bit limp? Stylisticly I guess it could be argued that we are ahead of where we were, but we are still toothless up front, weak at the back, and frustratingly inconsistent in the middle.

I don't pretend to know the answer, but imho Stam needs to start getting better results or risk his three year plan and possibly even his own personal progression by getting the boot early in his managerial career. Some of the matches this season have been so frustrating, and the ease at which some teams just brush us aside shows that something ain't right.

If we haven't got the players in at the moment to play the way he seems to want to play, surely it would make more sense to play the way those players perform best? Is he stubborn, or is he incapable?

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Dec 2017 13:59

We'll see how the next couple of games go of course. Less than 4 points and I think I'll be at the moaning stage. I think I'm only going to be at Stam out if we fall down to the 19 / 20s in the table.

But I can't muster the energy to defend him or say he should stay.


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Re: In or Out?

by SCIAG » 29 Dec 2017 14:16

I think we are probably playing the way that our players will perform best.

The serious issue is the lack of a 12-goal striker, and no style change is likely to fix that.

Stam has made more mistakes this season than last season, but he's also effectively "lost" his two top scorers (Kermorgant and McCleary), the third (Swift) has been available for less than half our matches, and the fourth (Beerens) has experienced a major drop in form. That's all our significant goalscorers.

I don't think we're getting the most out of Aluko, but that's partly because we don't have a dangerous striker to create space and opportunities for him, I don't think it is stylistic.

The Royal Forester
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Re: In or Out?

by The Royal Forester » 29 Dec 2017 15:04

RegularRoyal wrote:My first post here, but my daughter and I have been season ticket holders for the last 10 years, so we've seen the good times as well as the bad.

For me, it has to be a very definite OUT. Football is supposed to be an entertainment business. Where's the entertainment?

Last year we got the results, but for me, it was still hugely lacking in entertainment, bar a few games.

This season has been turgid in the extreme. Even the few games I think of as having been reasonable this season I would have rated as poor before the Stam era.

Unless Stam goes, or he changes the way this team play, I won't be renewing my season ticket. Sorry if it doesn't sound as though I am a loyal Royal, but the football has become painful to watch, and there's only so much pain I can take.

So, you think there has been "bad times" in the last ten years? Many on HNA have seen REALLY BAD DAYS scratching around the mid to lower positions in the bottom division. As far as I am concerned we are still in "The good times", relegations were part and parcel of following the Biscuitmen/Royals. Of course, we also had good days with promotions, but not really any League Cup or FA Cup runs, with only the Simod Cup win at Wembley to brag about. I remember when the Reserves gained promotion to the top tier of the Combination League, a huge crowd of several thousand (more than the first team were getting at the time) turned up to watch the final game of the season which saw us winning the League and promotion. The reason for a large crowd? it was probably the first Reading FC team to gain promotion since the 1920's. Perhaps if you care to stick it out for another decade or two you will also experience some more good and not so good times.

RegularRoyal
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Re: In or Out?

by RegularRoyal » 29 Dec 2017 15:11

The Royal Forester wrote:
RegularRoyal wrote:My first post here, but my daughter and I have been season ticket holders for the last 10 years, so we've seen the good times as well as the bad.

For me, it has to be a very definite OUT. Football is supposed to be an entertainment business. Where's the entertainment?

Last year we got the results, but for me, it was still hugely lacking in entertainment, bar a few games.

This season has been turgid in the extreme. Even the few games I think of as having been reasonable this season I would have rated as poor before the Stam era.

Unless Stam goes, or he changes the way this team play, I won't be renewing my season ticket. Sorry if it doesn't sound as though I am a loyal Royal, but the football has become painful to watch, and there's only so much pain I can take.

So, you think there has been "bad times" in the last ten years? Many on HNA have seen REALLY BAD DAYS scratching around the mid to lower in the bottom division. As far as I am concerned we are still in "The good times", relegations were part and parcel of following the Biscuitmen/Royals. Of course, we also had good days with promotions, but not really any League Cup or FA Cup runs, with only the Simod Cup win at Wembley to brag about. I remember when the Reserves gained promotion to the top tier of the Combination League, a huge crowd of several thousand (more than the first team were getting at the time) turned up to watch the final game of the season which saw us winning the League and promotion. The reason for a large crowd? it was probably the first Reading FC team to gain promotion since the 1920's. Perhaps if you care to stick it out for another decade or two you will also experience some more good and not so good times.


OK, so the "bad times" are relative, and were maybe a poor choice of words, but was the entertainment as bad in the REALLY BAD DAYS?

We have been taking 2 young lads to a couple of games for the past 4 years as a Christmas present. Would you want what we're seeing now as a Christmas present? At the moment, I'd tell them that if they don't do their homework, they'll be forced to watch a couple of Reading games.

stanmoreroyal
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Re: In or Out?

by stanmoreroyal » 29 Dec 2017 15:45

In defence of the man with daughter who's been a season ticket holder for 10 years, I agree that the entertainment and passion levels are really low.
I started following Reading in 1974 and of course, even this season is in the top 15 seasons, measured by who we're playing and which league we're competing in.
The style of football is now more fancy Dan (endless pointless passing around the back 5) but generally lacks passion. The arrogant Stam seems to say virtually the same after every match... whatever the result.
It appears to me that he has lost the dressing room. No-one in the team seems to carry the hopes of the fan base like Adi Williams, Jem or Parkie did. You knew these players really cared.
When I heard Sheffield Utd had a team of British players I felt pleased for them. We need more of our own in the team... some heart alongside Kelly. We built on a really good academy and surely need to play more of these youngsters. They might show an identity that just seems to be missing from the home performances that I've watched this session and last.
These aren't the worst times... but very frustrating when the investment of money that Stam has enjoyed is taken into consideration!

mambo3
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Re: In or Out?

by mambo3 » 29 Dec 2017 16:43

SCIAG wrote:I think we are probably playing the way that our players will perform best.

The serious issue is the lack of a 12-goal striker, and no style change is likely to fix that.

Stam has made more mistakes this season than last season, but he's also effectively "lost" his two top scorers (Kermorgant and McCleary), the third (Swift) has been available for less than half our matches, and the fourth (Beerens) has experienced a major drop in form. That's all our significant goalscorers.

I don't think we're getting the most out of Aluko, but that's partly because we don't have a dangerous striker to create space and opportunities for him, I don't think it is stylistic.


Too many excuses, people forget Mendes, Samuel, Grabban (Loan) , Meite, Williams, Al Habsi also contributed last season to us reaching 3rd Place with goals. Instead of thinking we over extended ourselves last season lets say what we have now maybe different style of players but ultimately not a "UNIT" as last season. Did Stam bring in any of the players mentioned except Loanees answer No. Did he bring the new players in - YES. So no excuses.

quickwingerswife
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Re: In or Out?

by quickwingerswife » 29 Dec 2017 19:25

Boycott games until he’s gone. Exhibition football not working.

double d
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Re: In or Out?

by double d » 29 Dec 2017 19:42

quickwingerswife wrote:Boycott games until he’s gone. Exhibition football not working.


Great fan you are :|

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