In or Out?

504 posts

Stam - In or Out?

In
100
42%
Out
106
44%
Shake it all about
16
7%
Ian Royal
17
7%
 
Total votes: 239
double d

Re: In or Out?

by double d » 28 Oct 2017 17:56

Stam has to go. He is turning us into a league 1 team with this style of play. Burton will be looking forward to playing us the way we are playing. Utter shambles

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39405
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 28 Oct 2017 18:34

There's a really frustrating trend in modern managers to tinker with line up and shape, and to pick both based on the opposition. At the same time there seems to be a policy to recruit players based on who is available, not what areas you need to strengthen.

I wish managers would just focus on keeping it simple, picking their best team of players and maintaining their own strategy. Fine, if you come up against a team that has a particular strength that could exploit a weakness, address it for that match. But don't spend all your time trying to nullify the opposition.

And however you build your strategy it has to follow the fundamental principles:
Make the pitch big when attacking and stretch the opposition, keep them guessing, catch them off guard and be constantly looking for that opening that will get you a goal.
Squeeze the pitch when defending, keep your organisation, hassle the opposition into making mistakes, track your runnings, stay tight to your man in danger areas and know where your out balls are.
Be able to keep the ball and slow down the game where necessary, but also be able to change up the gears, anticipate your teammates' runs and play passes that take an opposition player out of the game.

User avatar
Y21
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 391
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:45
Location: Here, there and everywhere

Re: In or Out?

by Y21 » 28 Oct 2017 18:41

Dr_Hfuhruhurr I cant work out if the issue is the manager or the club.

I really can't remember the last time we scouted a transfer window for what we wanted/needed in the squad. Instead, we hired a lot of journeymen, primarily midfielders. Each time we change the manager, they feel the need to add another 5 nobodies, primarily midfielders, to the line up. We are a long, long way away from the focus of the Hammond/McDermott era. If you're going to build a squad like this, its no wonder that nobody knows the pecking order, and when nobody knows the pecking order, you roll over easily if you concede the first goal.

If this is like McDermott's first sack, when he took the fall for a chairman who didnt know what he was doing, then Stam should stay and we concentrate on getting our shit in order. We sell a stack a players in in January and start a squad from the remains. if Stam has bought into a confusing squad structure because he believes that every player should be able to play every position, then, fck it, he goes. We still need to sell in January. Clogging up your wage bill with players who cant get above 20th is never worth it.


In general I agree with you. Although I'm not convinced we need to sell a stack of players. Let the ones that are here play a coherent system week in and week out under a competent and experienced manager first, and then see if they are any good.

User avatar
strap
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2802
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 09:06
Location: Gainsford End

Re: In or Out?

by strap » 28 Oct 2017 18:53

Snowflake Royal There's a really frustrating trend in modern managers to tinker with line up and shape, and to pick both based on the opposition. At the same time there seems to be a policy to recruit players based on who is available, not what areas you need to strengthen.

I wish managers would just focus on keeping it simple, picking their best team of players and maintaining their own strategy. Fine, if you come up against a team that has a particular strength that could exploit a weakness, address it for that match. But don't spend all your time trying to nullify the opposition.

And however you build your strategy it has to follow the fundamental principles:
Make the pitch big when attacking and stretch the opposition, keep them guessing, catch them off guard and be constantly looking for that opening that will get you a goal.
Squeeze the pitch when defending, keep your organisation, hassle the opposition into making mistakes, track your runnings, stay tight to your man in danger areas and know where your out balls are.
Be able to keep the ball and slow down the game where necessary, but also be able to change up the gears, anticipate your teammates' runs and play passes that take an opposition player out of the game.


Spot on. It's so obvious a significant number of fans can see this, and I am staggered why so called "professionals" in the game cannot see it! Focus on OUR game plan/strategy. Ensure it is understood and carried out by all players, and let the opposition worry about US! Oh, and why does Stam big up our opponents before EVERY game? Getting his excuses in early.

User avatar
Oilroyal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1241
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 11:19

Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 28 Oct 2017 18:54

Y21
Dr_Hfuhruhurr I cant work out if the issue is the manager or the club.

I really can't remember the last time we scouted a transfer window for what we wanted/needed in the squad. Instead, we hired a lot of journeymen, primarily midfielders. Each time we change the manager, they feel the need to add another 5 nobodies, primarily midfielders, to the line up. We are a long, long way away from the focus of the Hammond/McDermott era. If you're going to build a squad like this, its no wonder that nobody knows the pecking order, and when nobody knows the pecking order, you roll over easily if you concede the first goal.

If this is like McDermott's first sack, when he took the fall for a chairman who didnt know what he was doing, then Stam should stay and we concentrate on getting our shit in order. We sell a stack a players in in January and start a squad from the remains. if Stam has bought into a confusing squad structure because he believes that every player should be able to play every position, then, fck it, he goes. We still need to sell in January. Clogging up your wage bill with players who cant get above 20th is never worth it.


In general I agree with you. Although I'm not convinced we need to sell a stack of players. Let the ones that are here play a coherent system week in and week out under a competent and experienced manager first, and then see if they are any good.


Amen to that


Hound
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24935
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 28 Oct 2017 19:02

Agree we don’t need a big clear out

From what I’ve seen we’ve a solid squad with some good players. We do currently miss a striker but Yann is back, hopefully Dadi and Mendes not too far behind

Stam has massively over complicated things for himself this year. I think he’s tried to be too clever and in doing so has lost trust in a system which worked for him last year and the players have played themselves out of form

Usual issues of chopping and changing players (wtf did Popa do to deserve being dropped totally when he was out best player pre season and started the season ok) but then staying loyal to others less deserving (Beerens, Aluko, McShane for example) obvs don’t help

User avatar
Lower West
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 4915
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:35
Location: Admiring Clem Morfuni at Work

Re: In or Out?

by Lower West » 28 Oct 2017 21:19

Seems as if we are back in the Brendan Rodgers era. Where he religiously stuck to his belief in playing a diamond formation in midfield. Good players made to look totally inadequate.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18388
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: In or Out?

by Sutekh » 28 Oct 2017 23:41

Lower West Seems as if we are back in the Brendan Rodgers era. Where he religiously stuck to his belief in playing a diamond formation in midfield. Good players made to look totally inadequate.


Believe Rodgers said his inexperience led him to try to change too much at Reading too soon and that if he had that time over again he would now approach it differently.

Anyway, back in the current world, who is currently available in case Jaap does get the old spanish archer treatment?

The first names i can think of are probably all unrealistic one way or another

Alan Pardew
Ronald Koeman
David Moyes
Frank de Boer
Glenn Hoddle :lol:

Or would Reading look to try and take a manager from a lower division club such as Karl Robinson?

User avatar
leon
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 29048
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:18
Location: Hips, Lips, Tits, Power

Re: In or Out?

by leon » 29 Oct 2017 00:41

Lower West Seems as if we are back in the Brendan Rodgers era. Where he religiously stuck to his belief in playing a diamond formation in midfield. Good players made to look totally inadequate.


Well indeed.

A new poll required.


Royal Bahamas
Member
Posts: 232
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 16:19

Re: In or Out?

by Royal Bahamas » 29 Oct 2017 02:39

Where is Brian when you need him?

User avatar
Steve_Upper_West
Member
Posts: 352
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 16:13
Location: Brighton and GU10

Re: In or Out?

by Steve_Upper_West » 29 Oct 2017 08:09

If I am going to continue to endure the 3 or 4 hour journey around the M25 then the spectacle needs to be far more entertaining, finally off the fence - its an OUT from me !

Hang on, sitting in a traffic jam is actually more fun - I can just drive 5 mins down the road and stay there :|

Elm Park Kid
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2053
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 10:45

Re: In or Out?

by Elm Park Kid » 29 Oct 2017 08:29

Personally I think that people are over-analysing. Stam created a strategy last season that would maximise results given the squad we had. We now no longer have a decent target man available, we lost arguably our best player (Danny Williams) and our second best player (McCleary) is struggling for fitness/form. We're just a bit worse and are now losing 'coin flip' games rather than winning.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39405
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Oct 2017 08:43

Elm Park Kid Personally I think that people are over-analysing. Stam created a strategy last season that would maximise results given the squad we had. We now no longer have a decent target man available, we lost arguably our best player (Danny Williams) and our second best player (McCleary) is struggling for fitness/form. We're just a bit worse and are now losing 'coin flip' games rather than winning.

Absolutely this, but without the Williams bit and add in worse injury crisis disrupting the side and the usual PO hangover.

The players didn't perform at Wembley and got penalty sucker punched. They then had a short and depressing break and a short weak pre-season.

Luck has gone against them and now they're low on confidence and feel like they don't understand what's wrong. On top of that we missed our main transfer targets. Stam isn't helping, but it's not all his fault.

A couple of runs of luck, stumbling on a working team and a few decent results and we could look a totally diffrent side. Changing manager could work, but there's loads of disruption inherent in that and you've only got to look at Adkins, Clarke, McDermott 2.0 and back to Rodgers to know it's just as likely, if not more likely, to change nothing or make it worse.


User avatar
genome
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 25180
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 13:29
Location: Universe

Re: In or Out?

by genome » 29 Oct 2017 09:32

I think Stam's style is too fluid this season and he's expecting too much tactical nous from Championship players.

The best Reading sides (05/06-07/08, 11/12) have been quite rigid in their style, everyone had a role, learned it inside out and it was really effective. We also had a settled XI. We seem to have bought far too many players and Stam himself said he doesn't know what his best XI is.

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18388
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Undiscovered pyramid somewhere in Egypt

Re: In or Out?

by Sutekh » 29 Oct 2017 10:04

Elm Park Kid Personally I think that people are over-analysing. Stam created a strategy last season that would maximise results given the squad we had. We now no longer have a decent target man available, we lost arguably our best player (Danny Williams) and our second best player (McCleary) is struggling for fitness/form. We're just a bit worse and are now losing 'coin flip' games rather than winning.


McCleary is suffering with injury and fitness and has been for a year, Barrow looks a decent match for McLeary though.

Williams has gone but Bacuna looks like he can do what Williams did just as well.

But hang on this is Stam and Stam would rather play (if they get to play at all) Barrow and Bacuna in defence or in goal or serving the oranges at half time than where they might actually be best.

Elm Park Kid
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2053
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 10:45

Re: In or Out?

by Elm Park Kid » 29 Oct 2017 11:04

Snowflake Royal
Elm Park Kid Personally I think that people are over-analysing. Stam created a strategy last season that would maximise results given the squad we had. We now no longer have a decent target man available, we lost arguably our best player (Danny Williams) and our second best player (McCleary) is struggling for fitness/form. We're just a bit worse and are now losing 'coin flip' games rather than winning.

Absolutely this, but without the Williams bit and add in worse injury crisis disrupting the side and the usual PO hangover.

The players didn't perform at Wembley and got penalty sucker punched. They then had a short and depressing break and a short weak pre-season.

Luck has gone against them and now they're low on confidence and feel like they don't understand what's wrong. On top of that we missed our main transfer targets. Stam isn't helping, but it's not all his fault.

A couple of runs of luck, stumbling on a working team and a few decent results and we could look a totally diffrent side. Changing manager could work, but there's loads of disruption inherent in that and you've only got to look at Adkins, Clarke, McDermott 2.0 and back to Rodgers to know it's just as likely, if not more likely, to change nothing or make it worse.


'McDermott 2.0' was a manager picking up a team full of loan players that would be gone at the end of the season and really just experimenting so that he could do a rebuild job in a summer. Clarke wasn't fired because of team performance remember and Reading were never in any danger so it's not like his job was to come in and instantly improve results. Admittedly McDermott dropped the ball a bit and should have kept an eye on results, but then I don't think he imagined in a million years that the owners would fire him for finishing 17th rather than 7th.

Sorry - just my automatic defence of Brian "my hero" McDermott.

User avatar
Muskrat
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1254
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 13:38
Location: In my bunker

Re: In or Out?

by Muskrat » 29 Oct 2017 11:46

leon
Lower West Seems as if we are back in the Brendan Rodgers era. Where he religiously stuck to his belief in playing a diamond formation in midfield. Good players made to look totally inadequate.


Well indeed.

A new poll required.


As is often the case Leon, you are on the money. New poll required because there has been a sea change of opinion in recent weeks. Any early season optimism has evaporated into the ether so reset the meter to get the current view please.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39405
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Oct 2017 11:53

Elm Park Kid
Snowflake Royal
Elm Park Kid Personally I think that people are over-analysing. Stam created a strategy last season that would maximise results given the squad we had. We now no longer have a decent target man available, we lost arguably our best player (Danny Williams) and our second best player (McCleary) is struggling for fitness/form. We're just a bit worse and are now losing 'coin flip' games rather than winning.

Absolutely this, but without the Williams bit and add in worse injury crisis disrupting the side and the usual PO hangover.

The players didn't perform at Wembley and got penalty sucker punched. They then had a short and depressing break and a short weak pre-season.

Luck has gone against them and now they're low on confidence and feel like they don't understand what's wrong. On top of that we missed our main transfer targets. Stam isn't helping, but it's not all his fault.

A couple of runs of luck, stumbling on a working team and a few decent results and we could look a totally diffrent side. Changing manager could work, but there's loads of disruption inherent in that and you've only got to look at Adkins, Clarke, McDermott 2.0 and back to Rodgers to know it's just as likely, if not more likely, to change nothing or make it worse.


'McDermott 2.0' was a manager picking up a team full of loan players that would be gone at the end of the season and really just experimenting so that he could do a rebuild job in a summer. Clarke wasn't fired because of team performance remember and Reading were never in any danger so it's not like his job was to come in and instantly improve results. Admittedly McDermott dropped the ball a bit and should have kept an eye on results, but then I don't think he imagined in a million years that the owners would fire him for finishing 17th rather than 7th.

Sorry - just my automatic defence of Brian "my hero" McDermott.
McDermott 2.0 certainly got shafted every which way. And he'll always be a hero.

But Clarke did get sacked for performance. Post Fulham thrashing we were awful, clueless and nosediving. Sadly McDermott couldn't fix it and was then sacked when he should have had to at least December preferably a full season. Of course we wouldn't have finished 3rd under him in all probability. But I doubt we'd currently be sitting at the wrong end of the table if he'd stayed either.

Marino13

Re: In or Out?

by Marino13 » 29 Oct 2017 12:47

i'm fairly sure the board are preparing
to put something in place to
bring in a new head coach

of course this takes time but things
need to change and pronto to give
the new person in charge, time
to assess the squad and bring in
what they think is necessary in january
to ensure we do not get
relegated.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39405
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Oct 2017 12:59

Marino13 i'm fairly sure the board are preparing
to put something in place to
bring in a new head coach

of course this takes time but things
need to change and pronto to give
the new person in charge, time
to assess the squad and bring in
what they think is necessary in january
to ensure we do not get
relegated.

To be honest, you don't need a couple of weeks to assess the squad to identify what we're missing. BT and Gourlay should already have targets lined up for a striker and a fullback. Other than that we're gravy player wise.

Just got to get the XI right and up performance.

504 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ankeny, Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Horsham Royal and 461 guests

It is currently 29 Mar 2024 13:02