In or Out?

504 posts

Stam - In or Out?

In
100
42%
Out
106
44%
Shake it all about
16
7%
Ian Royal
17
7%
 
Total votes: 239
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genome
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Re: In or Out?

by genome » 31 Oct 2017 13:37

I wonder if it's a worth setting up an In or Out 2.0 poll, if we fail to win this evening?

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Re: In or Out?

by muirinho » 31 Oct 2017 13:38

Elm Park Kid wrote:Basic analysis:

I think most people are confident that even if we don't improve much under Stam that we wont go down - we can beat enough bottom table teams at home to be comfortable. Also I think most people would accept that a new manager coming in is unlikely to lead to a promotion push. So our season is going to end up the same regardless of whether we sack him or not.

When looking at the long term success, I think our issue is finances not the manager. He achieved optimal results last season given the team at his disposal and there's no reason (IMO) to believe that a new one is doing better with more money. Sorry, I know there's RFC fans out there that always believe that we've got a load of amazing players (esp. those home grown youngsters who "never get a chance") and that the only reason we're not winning the champs league is because the manager messes up, but the truth is that our team is slightly above average at best. FIring Stam without any other fundamental change at the club and hoping for more success is unrealistic to me.

However, we have also played a style of football under Stam that many of us don't like; and so personally, I would like him to go. Not because I think we'd do better but because I think I would enjoy watching Reading more with a different manager. Ask yourself which season did you enjoy more - McDermott's first full season when we finished 6th and lost in the PO final 4-2 or last season when we finished 3rd and lost on penalties?


Sensible post!

I'm not wild about the football style myself, but one of the issues I'd have with sacking Stam is what it would do to our reputation.

There are some managers who don't seem to mind turning up and fire-fighting for 6 months, before being given the heave-ho. In fact, it probably suits them because they deal in short-term solutions, and would run out of ideas if they stuck around longer than a season.

But in general, the better managers want the opportunity to build something.

We do not want to gain the reputation for being a kneejerk hire & fire club - we should look like the kind of club that will give a young manager a chance, and will back him when times get a bit rough. Because that's the kind of club that mangers will want to come to.

If you can offer shedloads of money, you will get more choice of managers. But if you can't, you need to be a "good" club to get interest.

It's like any job really - I'd be willing to put up with a crap employer for a short period if they pay very, very well. But I wouldn't put up them if they didn't pay way over the odds.

If we don't want a merry-go-round of tired managerial failures from elsewhere, we need to be a bit more supportive than a lot of the StamOut brigade.

Take a deep breath, look for the positives and think long term.

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Re: In or Out?

by bcubed » 31 Oct 2017 13:49

genome wrote:I wonder if it's a worth setting up an In or Out 2.0 poll, if we fail to win this evening?


if there was a poll on whether to do this or not I'd vote Yes

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Ascotexgunner
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Re: In or Out?

by Ascotexgunner » 31 Oct 2017 13:52

That poll has got a tad closer......
Just as a follow on I just wonder how many fans on here are hoping we lose just to hammer the final nails in the coffin.....
Im just putting it out there......Although come to think of it, it does sound a bit trollish.....

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Re: In or Out?

by windermereROYAL » 31 Oct 2017 13:56

Ascotexgunner wrote:That poll has got a tad closer......
Just as a follow on I just wonder how many fans on here are hoping we lose just to hammer the final nails in the coffin.....
Im just putting it out there......Although come to think of it, it does sound a bit trollish.....


If anyone hopes we lose they have no place anywhere near our football club.


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Re: In or Out?

by double d » 31 Oct 2017 14:06

bcubed wrote:
genome wrote:I wonder if it's a worth setting up an In or Out 2.0 poll, if we fail to win this evening?


if there was a poll on whether to do this or not I'd vote Yes

Yes with another about who should he our next boss with all available people in it, plus a few others *murts, parky, sir Steve etc

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 31 Oct 2017 14:09

I think like a few people there is a bit of a conflict for me.

I want Stam to stay. Unlike some, I like him, and on the whole I enjoyed the football we played last year, with a few obvious exceptions (Ipswich at home a particular example). I'd like nothing more for him to turn things around, get the crowd back on side and start winning matches again.

But on the other hand, if he doesn't change his tactics and favouritism to certain out of form players, I just can't see where the points are coming from - and therefore think he probably has to go.

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Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 31 Oct 2017 16:03

Been a big swing in the poll

I’ve been one of Stam’s biggest critics this season, but I did vote for him to stay, until December at least. The club and players need stability and I’d much prefer he stayed on and got his shit together and learns from the experience, which in the long term can only benefit the club.

If I were pulling a younger manager in for a talk, these are the issues I would want to discuss with him, for him to address.
• Stop tinkering with the team selection every week
• Stop putting a team out based on the opposition
• Focus on his own team’s strengths
• Respect that the fans have their own view
• Learn to say, “I’m still learning”
• Learn it’s OK to make mistakes, but never to repeat the same mistake
• Learn to keep the media on side
• Learn how to react and interact within the media, (press, radio and OS)
• Don’t take cheap swipes at other managers and their game plan in the media
• Allow your assistant coach to speak to the media after every other game
• Stop being quoted on players contracted to other clubs
• Decline to comment on other manager’s jobs
• Be seen at Championship games, scouting when we don’t have a game
• Know the difference between being a player and a head coach
• Get an experienced older head, an attack minded advisory by your side
• Be willing to take advice from the advisory
If he can get his head around that lot, then I think he’ll pull through this mess.

And as it happens, I think we’ll win tonight so Good luck Stam… and get it sorted, otherwise this poll is gonna swing OUT

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Re: In or Out?

by Denver Royal » 31 Oct 2017 16:55

Elm Park Kid wrote:FIring Stam without any other fundamental change at the club and hoping for more success is unrealistic to me.

However, we have also played a style of football under Stam that many of us don't like; and so personally, I would like him to go.

Not because I think we'd do better with another manager but because I think I would enjoy watching Reading more with a different manager.


Thats quite a statement and I'm not sure how this club (or any club) would pursue this (if they wanted to).

This is a results-based business rather than 'style'. (Ideally its both, but look at Man Yoo and Chelsea). But if you (and maybe others) are serious about what you have just said, then how do we go about it?

Firstly, it presumably places an absolute premium and emphasis on what style the new manger will play with, and thus should be a huge factor in our search of such (available and willing) managers. (Btw, at the outset did anyone fully anticipate that Stam would play in this 'style' when he was hired and/or that they would dislike it so much?)

Furthermore, is 'style' something that needs to be identified (demanded?) at the interview stage, with the understanding and agreement with the prospective manager that he may be fired if (some) fans don't subsequently like his style?

Not sure how realistic this all is, but am I understanding you correctly? And do you have ideas about how we get there and/or candidates? Lastly, do you feel its possible Stam's team could become more 'stylish' once everyone is fit, if results pick up, and a couple more signings were added over the winter?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 31 Oct 2017 17:13, edited 4 times in total.


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Re: In or Out?

by Half Biscuit » 31 Oct 2017 16:58

Elm Park Kid wrote:I think most people are confident that even if we don't improve much under Stam that we wont go down - we can beat enough bottom table teams at home to be comfortable.


At the moment, I can't see us beating anyone, home or away.

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Re: In or Out?

by marcusopp » 31 Oct 2017 20:04

Elm Park Kid wrote:Basic analysis:

I think most people are confident that even if we don't improve much under Stam that we wont go down - we can beat enough bottom table teams at home to be comfortable. Also I think most people would accept that a new manager coming in is unlikely to lead to a promotion push. So our season is going to end up the same regardless of whether we sack him or not.

When looking at the long term success, I think our issue is finances not the manager. He achieved optimal results last season given the team at his disposal and there's no reason (IMO) to believe that a new one is doing better with more money. Sorry, I know there's RFC fans out there that always believe that we've got a load of amazing players (esp. those home grown youngsters who "never get a chance") and that the only reason we're not winning the champs league is because the manager messes up, but the truth is that our team is slightly above average at best. FIring Stam without any other fundamental change at the club and hoping for more success is unrealistic to me.

However, we have also played a style of football under Stam that many of us don't like; and so personally, I would like him to go. Not because I think we'd do better but because I think I would enjoy watching Reading more with a different manager. Ask yourself which season did you enjoy more - McDermott's first full season when we finished 6th and lost in the PO final 4-2 or last season when we finished 3rd and lost on penalties?

Exactly. Losing isn't the biggest deal (weirdly), it's the way we're losing. There's no excitement. The anticipation whenever Gilkes, Little, Convey, Kebe or McAnuff got the ball was incredible, the whole ground had it. What do we have now? Sideways passing around the back and a nosebleed when we cross the halfway line.

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Re: In or Out?

by double d » 31 Oct 2017 21:55

Stam in (for now)

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Re: In or Out?

by Half Biscuit » 31 Oct 2017 22:26

Half Biscuit wrote:
Elm Park Kid wrote:I think most people are confident that even if we don't improve much under Stam that we wont go down - we can beat enough bottom table teams at home to be comfortable.


At the moment, I can't see us beating anyone, home or away.


It worked! :D :?


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Re: In or Out?

by CountryRoyal » 31 Oct 2017 22:30

Grayson gone from Sunderland.

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 31 Oct 2017 22:38

It’s all well and good winning that game and winning it well, and I’m delighted about it

But Stam needs to learn from it again.

And he needs to keep Yann, Bacuna, Barrow and Swift fit

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Re: In or Out?

by CountryRoyal » 31 Oct 2017 23:02

Hound wrote:It’s all well and good winning that game and winning it well, and I’m delighted about it

But Stam needs to learn from it again.

And he needs to keep Yann, Bacuna, Barrow and Swift fit


This is the big thing, if we don't and just go back to what we were doing then it was is the point.

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 31 Oct 2017 23:08

TBH, we’ll prob lose to Derby - they are a team on the up, and we are struggling to get numbers on the pitch if Smith and Joey are added to the injury list

But after the break, hopefully Kelly, McCleary, Dadi, Ilori will all be back and Yann ready to start

Then he has no excuses not to keep getting performances like that out of the team

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Re: In or Out?

by biff » 01 Nov 2017 00:25

Hound wrote:It’s all well and good winning that game and winning it well, and I’m delighted about it

But Stam needs to learn from it again.

And he needs to keep Yann, Bacuna, Barrow and Swift fit


Post match he felt we played better against Boro, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

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Re: In or Out?

by windermereROYAL » 01 Nov 2017 00:37

Good win tonight has taken the pressure of Stam, but two very hard games coming up before it starts to get a little bit easier, the doubters will be back out in force if as expected we lose on Saturday.

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 01 Nov 2017 07:34

biff wrote:
Hound wrote:It’s all well and good winning that game and winning it well, and I’m delighted about it

But Stam needs to learn from it again.

And he needs to keep Yann, Bacuna, Barrow and Swift fit


Post match he felt we played better against Boro, so I wouldn't hold your breath.


Yeah saw that. Hope he doesn’t really believe that himself

Just think he is a bit thin skinned sometimes, which results in him speaking absolute nonsense at times

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