In or Out?

504 posts

Stam - In or Out?

In
100
42%
Out
106
44%
Shake it all about
16
7%
Ian Royal
17
7%
 
Total votes: 239
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genome
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Re: In or Out?

by genome » 02 Dec 2017 18:26

Yup. As I said at the time, that Forest match was actually the last straw for me, if he had lost it then I would've been Stam Out.

But he didn't - he's changed things and we've been top 6 form since then.

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Oilroyal
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Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 02 Dec 2017 18:30

genome wrote:Yup. As I said at the time, that Forest match was actually the last straw for me, if he had lost it then I would've been Stam Out.

But he didn't - he's changed things and we've been top 6 form since then.


He hasn’t changed anything, he’s just changed the way HE approaches the game. Before it was all about him

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Dec 2017 18:32

genome wrote:All I will say is, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Stam was rightly under pressure. He has improved massively since the Forest match.


Not hindsight for people who said he should get more time. Ten - thirteen games is simply not long enough, particularly with mitigating factors, to lose faith with a previously good performing manager.

If we'd got seven points in the last seven games on top of the early form, then it's time to start talking about it. But only now, not a couple of months ago.

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genome
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Re: In or Out?

by genome » 02 Dec 2017 18:36

Oilroyal wrote:
genome wrote:Yup. As I said at the time, that Forest match was actually the last straw for me, if he had lost it then I would've been Stam Out.

But he didn't - he's changed things and we've been top 6 form since then.


He hasn’t changed anything, he’s just changed the way HE approaches the game. Before it was all about him


Not really sure what you mean by that - there have been clear changes

He's dropped Blackett, settled on a first XI and more recently, stopped playing Beerens. Tactically I've noticed more runs off the ball and he's playing Aluko and Barrow further out wide, where they look more dangerous.

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Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 02 Dec 2017 18:39

For me it was never the team performance that got us into the mess early season, it was the performance Stam wanted to put out on show and thankfully, he’s now learning what the Championship is all about and now it’s less STAM FC and we can all see the rewards.


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Re: In or Out?

by Oilroyal » 02 Dec 2017 18:43

genome wrote:
Oilroyal wrote:
genome wrote:Yup. As I said at the time, that Forest match was actually the last straw for me, if he had lost it then I would've been Stam Out.

But he didn't - he's changed things and we've been top 6 form since then.


He hasn’t changed anything, he’s just changed the way HE approaches the game. Before it was all about him


Not really sure what you mean by that - there have been clear changes

He's dropped Blackett, settled on a first XI and more recently, stopped playing Beerens. Tactically I've noticed more runs off the ball and he's playing Aluko and Barrow further out wide, where they look more dangerous.


Yep agreed.... he saw that we all saw only 17 games later #Stubborn

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Dec 2017 19:01

genome wrote:
Oilroyal wrote:
genome wrote:Yup. As I said at the time, that Forest match was actually the last straw for me, if he had lost it then I would've been Stam Out.

But he didn't - he's changed things and we've been top 6 form since then.


He hasn’t changed anything, he’s just changed the way HE approaches the game. Before it was all about him


Not really sure what you mean by that - there have been clear changes

He's dropped Blackett, settled on a first XI and more recently, stopped playing Beerens. Tactically I've noticed more runs off the ball and he's playing Aluko and Barrow further out wide, where they look more dangerous.

Tactics haven't changed. The players are performing better and he's got more options available.

Blackett was performing well early in the season. Beerens was only ever a stand in upfront when we had very few other options. Possibly the wrong square peg in a round hole, but still a square peg from many square pegs. And he's still a decent winger and worth using. Just Barrow is considerably better.

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Re: In or Out?

by PistolPete » 02 Dec 2017 19:30

leon wrote:
PistolPete wrote:87 people wanted Stam out. 87 people cared nothing for a play off hangover, for all the strikers being injured and the board failing to bring in another during the window, for further key injuries to Evans, Obita, McCleary, Swift and others. They cared nothing that Al-Habsi, the player of the season was sold, or that Reading had overachieved last season.

So, how many of the 87 will hold their hands up and say they've changed their minds?

Or maybe they still think there are better managers out there available and in our price range?!


What an odd post. How can you confidently say any of that?


Because they voted out. QED.

I know you sat on the fence, but if you voted out, you felt the mitigating circumstances were not enough...

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Re: In or Out?

by leon » 02 Dec 2017 19:50

PistolPete wrote:
leon wrote:
PistolPete wrote:87 people wanted Stam out. 87 people cared nothing for a play off hangover, for all the strikers being injured and the board failing to bring in another during the window, for further key injuries to Evans, Obita, McCleary, Swift and others. They cared nothing that Al-Habsi, the player of the season was sold, or that Reading had overachieved last season.

So, how many of the 87 will hold their hands up and say they've changed their minds?

Or maybe they still think there are better managers out there available and in our price range?!


What an odd post. How can you confidently say any of that?


Because they voted out. QED.

I know you sat on the fence, but if you voted out, you felt the mitigating circumstances were not enough...


Sorry PP how did they not “care”?

And what does that even mean?

I voted stay but I’m not one of those who think we just improved without anything changing.


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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 02 Dec 2017 19:56

We definitely did change, no doubts

Barrow and Aluko play further forward, try to win the ball higher

He has played a #9 whenever possible, which he wasn’t doing

I think we are also playing deeper and even conceding possession at times, to try to draw the oppo in to allow us to counter

Also think Bacuna esp has definitely been asked to get forward whenever possible and take risks

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Re: In or Out?

by bcubed » 02 Dec 2017 22:11

Many people were justifiably concerned about performance and that probably included the owners.

I suspect that with a couple more losses (instead of wins v Forest and Derby) Stam would have gone.

So it seems strange after a few good results to now say You see I told you there was nothing to worry about

I believe those earlier opinions were perfectly reasonable and not invalidated through hindsight

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Re: In or Out?

by royalp-we » 02 Dec 2017 22:23

When your side is set up to keep possession from the off and play it out from the back, finding a settled back 4 has to be the priority.

With injuries and some tinkering, hopefully Stam has found that platform to build on now.

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Dec 2017 22:35

bcubed wrote:Many people were justifiably concerned about performance and that probably included the owners.

I suspect that with a couple more losses (instead of wins v Forest and Derby) Stam would have gone.

So it seems strange after a few good results to now say You see I told you there was nothing to worry about

I believe those earlier opinions were perfectly reasonable and not invalidated through hindsight


I think you misunderstand. I, for example, never said there was nothing to worry about. I said that less than 20 games is too little on which to base the sacking of a previously successful manager. Had those who wanted him out got what they wanted, we'd be on our fifth Manager in about three years, with no guarantee of any improvement, and a decent chance of continued failure / getting worse. Because what Reading FC really needs is some continuity and medium term planning... not just constantly reacting to the immediate, constantly tearing up the work that's been started and beginning all over again in a never ending cycle of failure.

If a manager doesn't perform over a genuinely relevant period, they will of course get sacked. And good managers will sometimes have poor runs. Particularly where other factors like injuries and short pre-seasons come into play. They should be given a proper chance to turn those runs around and get to learn from them. As long as we don't go down, there is always next season.


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Re: In or Out?

by Denver Royal » 03 Dec 2017 02:59

genome wrote:All I will say is, hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing? That's original. (And so is foresight. That's even more wonderful...though maybe less quoted or acknowledged).

But that's all you can say, huh? Well, you could say that in hindsight you were wrong? And it wouldn't matter much anyway, right? A meaningless internet message board and all that, in the linear passage of time. No big deal, huh?

Or, you could say that Snowflake, et al, had it right? I mean we can't all be right...or wrong...or whatever.

But as I understand it, you are saying anyone that didn't say 'out' at the time when you did..or others did...(did you take them to task?)...was wrong. Hmm, right?

Which of course now lends itself to facilitate that most ghastly of landscape environments. Ah, the terrible beauty. Whereby, with each win, it will stick in some craw...(of course in denial thereof)...and some will hate him even more, even willing us to lose, as some at the stadium have now witnessed and attest to. (But I hate his bald head, and I always will! And I'm gonna zealously hang on every word of his 'manager-speak' radio interviews to dig out the juicy bits and nail his ass..haha...and if he's boring and company-line I'll nail him for that anyway).

FWIW, which of course is absolutely nowt, I'll call for Stams head if and when I feel it's due. Meanwhile, its utterly embarrassing in here this thread is active. On a game to game basis. Really? Read it and weap. It's even more active than a Sunderland game thread where on a long road trip we won away against a desperate team (its barely a page long...and you know it would be longer if we had lost).

Anyways genome, all the managers in the Champ that finished below 3rd last season...to a young, foreign, first year manager, who joined late in the summer...many of them should all have been fired, right? Yep, you don't know or care about their 'situations'. Or am I missing something in your logic of entitlement?

And no, I'm not expecting, and nor do I feel entitled to, promotion this season. I wouldn't be shocked (tho of course I'd be disappointed) with mid table, and re-load for next season.

And you know what promotion would mean anyway, right? We'd want Stam out by Xmas (at the very latest, on evidence of 10 games this season) and we'd be crying about the prices of match tix and how we much more enjoy it in the Champ anyway. Adios.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 03 Dec 2017 04:31, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: In or Out?

by TiagoIlori » 03 Dec 2017 03:09

I was in the out camp but it’s great to see Stam has turned it round, am pleased to be proven wrong by Stam who seemed too stubborn to change. Home form needs to improve though, but I’m glad away form has drastically improved. Had we played like that away last season with Aluko and Barrow(probably would’ve been here on loan if anything tbh) we’d have walked the championship.

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Re: In or Out?

by double d » 03 Dec 2017 08:52

Denver Royal wrote:
genome wrote:All I will say is, hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing? That's original. (And so is foresight. That's even more wonderful...though maybe less quoted or acknowledged).

But that's all you can say, huh? Well, you could say that in hindsight you were wrong? And it wouldn't matter much anyway, right? A meaningless internet message board and all that, in the linear passage of time. No big deal, huh?

Or, you could say that Snowflake, et al, had it right? I mean we can't all be right...or wrong...or whatever.

But as I understand it, you are saying anyone that didn't say 'out' at the time when you did..or others did...(did you take them to task?)...was wrong. Hmm, right?

Which of course now lends itself to facilitate that most ghastly of landscape environments. Ah, the terrible beauty. Whereby, with each win, it will stick in some craw...(of course in denial thereof)...and some will hate him even more, even willing us to lose, as some at the stadium have now witnessed and attest to. (But I hate his bald head, and I always will! And I'm gonna zealously hang on every word of his 'manager-speak' radio interviews to dig out the juicy bits and nail his ass..haha...and if he's boring and company-line I'll nail him for that anyway).

FWIW, which of course is absolutely nowt, I'll call for Stams head if and when I feel it's due. Meanwhile, its utterly embarrassing in here this thread is active. On a game to game basis. Really? Read it and weap. It's even more active than a Sunderland game thread where on a long road trip we won away against a desperate team (its barely a page long...and you know it would be longer if we had lost).

Anyways genome, all the managers in the Champ that finished below 3rd last season...to a young, foreign, first year manager, who joined late in the summer...many of them should all have been fired, right? Yep, you don't know or care about their 'situations'. Or am I missing something in your logic of entitlement?

And no, I'm not expecting, and nor do I feel entitled to, promotion this season. I wouldn't be shocked (tho of course I'd be disappointed) with mid table, and re-load for next season.

And you know what promotion would mean anyway, right? We'd want Stam out by Xmas (at the very latest, on evidence of 10 games this season) and we'd be crying about the prices of match tix and how we much more enjoy it in the Champ anyway. Adios.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you Ian Royals other username?

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genome
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Re: In or Out?

by genome » 03 Dec 2017 11:26

Denver Royal wrote:
genome wrote:All I will say is, hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing? That's original. (And so is foresight. That's even more wonderful...though maybe less quoted or acknowledged).

But that's all you can say, huh? Well, you could say that in hindsight you were wrong? And it wouldn't matter much anyway, right? A meaningless internet message board and all that, in the linear passage of time. No big deal, huh?

Or, you could say that Snowflake, et al, had it right? I mean we can't all be right...or wrong...or whatever.

But as I understand it, you are saying anyone that didn't say 'out' at the time when you did..or others did...(did you take them to task?)...was wrong. Hmm, right?

Which of course now lends itself to facilitate that most ghastly of landscape environments. Ah, the terrible beauty. Whereby, with each win, it will stick in some craw...(of course in denial thereof)...and some will hate him even more, even willing us to lose, as some at the stadium have now witnessed and attest to. (But I hate his bald head, and I always will! And I'm gonna zealously hang on every word of his 'manager-speak' radio interviews to dig out the juicy bits and nail his ass..haha...and if he's boring and company-line I'll nail him for that anyway).

FWIW, which of course is absolutely nowt, I'll call for Stams head if and when I feel it's due. Meanwhile, its utterly embarrassing in here this thread is active. On a game to game basis. Really? Read it and weap. It's even more active than a Sunderland game thread where on a long road trip we won away against a desperate team (its barely a page long...and you know it would be longer if we had lost).

Anyways genome, all the managers in the Champ that finished below 3rd last season...to a young, foreign, first year manager, who joined late in the summer...many of them should all have been fired, right? Yep, you don't know or care about their 'situations'. Or am I missing something in your logic of entitlement?

And no, I'm not expecting, and nor do I feel entitled to, promotion this season. I wouldn't be shocked (tho of course I'd be disappointed) with mid table, and re-load for next season.

And you know what promotion would mean anyway, right? We'd want Stam out by Xmas (at the very latest, on evidence of 10 games this season) and we'd be crying about the prices of match tix and how we much more enjoy it in the Champ anyway. Adios.


:|

Erm... try reading my other posts instead of picking me up on one sentence and writing an essay on it!

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Re: In or Out?

by KC Royal » 03 Dec 2017 15:30

I wonder if Gilkes has had an impact. A period of time getting to know Stam along with the rest of the coaching staff and the players and is now having more influence?

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Re: In or Out?

by Hound » 03 Dec 2017 20:26

I do feel frustrated by the season btw, as I suspect a lot of other players and fans do

Less so yesterday, but I remember actually feeling quite annoyed after the Derby game as I knew the squad was capable of that sort of performance - and it almost made the Hull/Millwall/QPR/Norwich etc games even more unacceptable

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Re: In or Out?

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Dec 2017 20:48

Hound wrote:I do feel frustrated by the season btw, as I suspect a lot of other players and fans do

Less so yesterday, but I remember actually feeling quite annoyed after the Derby game as I knew the squad was capable of that sort of performance - and it almost made the Hull/Millwall/QPR/Norwich etc games even more unacceptable


Really frustrated with all the early injuries and short pre-season too. A few less injuries, a couple of different decisions from Stam and some better showings from the players and we could be very nicely placed. Instead, we're almost certainly looking at next season and hoping for not too many injuries or much squad disruption. Plus it's a WC year, so shorter pre-season again (I assume).

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