Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

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strap
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Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by strap » 21 Oct 2017 18:48

Not me, my boy who was scouting Sheff Utd for upcoming game v LUFC, (he's an RFC fan and former ST holder)

"Woeful. Men against boys. Only shining light was Swift who made a huge difference. No other positives whatsoever. Pathetic."

Rather think I trust a professional's view on the performance rather than the cr@p Stam spouts.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by bobby1413 » 21 Oct 2017 18:57

strap wrote:Not me, my boy who was scouting Sheff Utd for upcoming game v LUFC, (he's an RFC fan and former ST holder)

"Woeful. Men against boys. Only shining light was Swift who made a huge difference. No other positives whatsoever. Pathetic."

Rather think I trust a professional's view on the performance rather than the cr@p Stam spouts.


It does sound bad. All I would say is that it may be worth remembering that SUFC are no push overs. 3rd in the league and promotion contenders.

Also it does seem our away form is particularly pathetic.

Either way it's not been a good couple of months!

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Kitsondinho » 21 Oct 2017 19:13

Been back a little while, the short trip home was possibly the best thing about it!
Anyway, we looked ok for the first 10 or so, a couple direct attacks (that came to nothing) and Barrow’s pace chasing long balls looked to be an outlet......then they scored. After that there was only one team in it. That was the most frustrating thing. As soon as we went 1-0 down, we never looked remotely like getting back in to the game (even at 2-1, that just papered over the cracks). An example of this is Aluko. I thought he had a decent showing, if his job was to chase down their midfielders, make tackles and hold the ball up by the corner flag (at 2-0 down). However, clearly that isn’t why we bought him. So what exactly was he meant to be doing? I could say the same sort of thing about Blackett...because he was often the furthest player forward on the left, but was then caught chasing back to defend. Equally Illori, who couldn’t decide if he was play CB or as a number 10. Gunter returned to his usual Reading self and JVdB was just thuggish in the middle of the park. For me, Vito was probably our best player....but he didn’t have masses to do and possibly could have done better with their first. That and Billy Sharp being the best player on the pitch summed today up. We look lost.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Oct 2017 21:40

Ok. Here we go.

Much of this is obvious for the attendees and Ifollow viewers but I shall proceed none the less.

Our shape is working against us. We have too many players in our own half for too long during the games. Usually we are great at pondering about on the ball without doing anything meaningful but we struggled to do that this game. In fact we struggled to much at all until the final quarter of the game. Sheffield were a perfect match for our chosen tactics today. They pressed high and played with real intensity. They took full advantage of their set pieces and were unlucky not to score 2 more minimum for free kicks positions. Our fouling played right into their hands today allowing them to control the pace of the game, taking breathers when needed and taking quick balls at the right time. This was in stark contrast to us, who for the most part, took quick free kicks in a seemingly desperate attempt to apply some pressure or attack on the break. In reality I think we would have been better off by stopping and evaluating our position more often, perhaps passing it back and trying to get back to our calm passing at the back.

Our defenders were all over the shop today. Easily led around by the Sheffield attackers. I think our man marking left us dragged about by some simple but effective passing (not to disrespect our opponents, what they did worked but wasn't difficult) Blackett in particular struggled in this regard, with the first goal being mostly his fault as his positional ill-discipline created as much space as Sheffield would ever need down the wing. This is probably because hes not a natural LB or even a natural FB/WB. I agree we should never have changed the defensive line-up from the previous match.

The midfield was isolated and I cant blame them for anything this game. JVDB was his usual over-enthusiastic self who I was surprised didn't get a second card after making 3(I think?) obvious fouls. Edwards was more isolated given his tactical instructions but was often chasing after the ball and trying to put in tackles. He looked frustrated through out and I believe I'm correct in saying he too often lost the ball after making a fair challenge.

Our front 3 may as well not have played for the first half. Barrow and Aluko are clearly very good players but the tactics did them no favours. I couldn't even take notes on them for the first half as they barely played. Not their fault as I said before, a lack of a link is our major issue here (hopefully solved by Swift and a formation change)

The last part of the second half we finally kicked it up a gear. The introduction of Swift made a hell of a difference. He created a different problem for the Sheffield defenders, in fact his introduction made it even more obvious that when we set up with a 5-3-3 we are easy to defend out of a game as there is only one attack to defend against.

The goal was taken well and for the 10ish minutes that followed it actually looked like we might get another goal (undeservedly) Clement in particular looked lively and desperate to win.

Mannone - 6 - Not good, not bad. One good save at close range but positionally was worrying a few times. His passing was standard.
Gunter - 5 - Maybe should consider switching flanks? Was often too central in defense.
Moore - 6 - Hard to think of anything he did wrong but equally hard to think of anything he did well.
Illori - 5 - Looked entirely disinterested at times. Lazy movement after a clearance while the ball was still in play.
Bacuna - ? - I couldn't quite tell what position he was playing and couldn't figure out what he was up to for long periods.
Blackett - 4 - Again better in attack than defense. Not something you want in a starting defender in a team struggling to win.
JVDB - 6 - Movement was more positive. I don't think his vision is great with many passes doing nothing for the team.
Edwards - 5 - Like a slightly worse Evans at the moment. Often hard to spot doing anything but necessary none the less.
Beerens - 6 - Took a shot from the distance in the first half and at least tried something to get a goal.
Barrow - 6 - Its hard to rank these guys higher despite the assist and the goal as the first half they were barely in the game. I like him.
Aluko - 5 - I'm marking him down because of how much he cost.

McShane - 4 - Not his fault he was the worst player to bring on. *Cough Richards Cough* Deserved yellow.
Swift - 7 - A player we have missed badly. Can see him leaving in January for a smaller fee than we would like to see. MOTM.
Clement - 6 - Shortish cameo but actually tried. something a lot of players haven't been doing.

Ref - Fook me this guy didn't like to let small fouls go. Made the awful football on display worse by penalising every tiny indiscretion.


DISCLAIMER
Yes Sheffield are in better form and I think most people would say were realistically likely to win anyway but much of my bitterness comes from how poorly we played. I honestly think that was the worst performance under Stam. It might not have had any stand out moments of awful but the whole thing left me so disinterested and depressed about the future of this team (that I have been genuinely excited about seeing progress) I would have more happily watched The Big Bang Theory.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by blueroyals » 21 Oct 2017 21:56

We always struggle against big, strong teams so the result was not a surprise for me

Performance was concerning but again if you don't play a striker you're not going to score goals? Feels like the season is a write off unless BT has something up his sleeve for Jan


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Oct 2017 22:06

blueroyals wrote:We always struggle against big, strong teams so the result was not a surprise for me

Performance was concerning but again if you don't play a striker you're not going to score goals? Feels like the season is a write off unless BT has something up his sleeve for Jan

Yeah.. Its not like Spain won the Euros with a false 9....

Queue everyone saying "we're not Spain"

I know we don't have the same quality players as Spain but we're not playing international quality teams. It's not an excuse. Playing tactics that require a striker while not having a striker on the pitch is an issue.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Royal_jimmy » 21 Oct 2017 22:13

The reason why we've been struggling this season and why we were awful for 80 minutes today are so evident. We're playing a team with no balance in midfield and we signed 2 midfielders more than we needed. We're so much better in midfield with Swift, Kelly and Evans. Swift links into forward areas well. Evans breaks up play and Kelly is quick and mobile who plays good long balls forward. Maybe Van Den Berg, Swift and Edwards can work, time will tell but we looked far better when Swift was on.

We need to stop 5 at the back right now. It's negative and invites teams to come on to us. 5 at the back only works if our full backs are good at getting forward and although Blackett got good crosses in, he lacks pace. Stam has to return to a 4-3-3 vs Boro.

We've played so many different formations which means that we have players who don't know what they're doing. Aluko today in centre midfield i mean wtf? He's playing Grabbans old midfield role which clearly doesn't suit him. So Grabban plays up front for Sunderland and he's actually scoring! Wow.

The striker situation isn't great either. But why didn't Stam give Sam Smith a go? If Kermie or Bod aren't fit then Smith has to play. Even so, Stams naivety, stubbornness and arrogance is making me feel less like I won't care if he gets sacked

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by CountryRoyal » 22 Oct 2017 03:33

FAO those bemoaning our away form.

We've won more games away than at home this season :lol:

God we're shit.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Sutekh » 22 Oct 2017 07:38

strap wrote:Not me, my boy who was scouting Sheff Utd for upcoming game v LUFC, (he's an RFC fan and former ST holder)

"Woeful. Men against boys. Only shining light was Swift who made a huge difference. No other positives whatsoever. Pathetic."

Rather think I trust a professional's view on the performance rather than the cr@p Stam spouts.


Dont need to be a professional to know that plan A (i.e. dont play strikers but play a load of wingers) does not work and makes for nothing more than utterly pathetic football and zero threat. We all knew what to expect as soon as the lack of Bod was revealed yesterday.

Wonder if itll be the same next week or will there be an experienced striker available?


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Royal_jimmy » 22 Oct 2017 07:42

CountryRoyal wrote:FAO those bemoaning our away form.

We've won more games away than at home this season :lol:

God we're shit.


Don't get me started on home form!

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Gobsheik » 22 Oct 2017 08:00

The style of football that we play is not what is needed in the Championship. It is passionless, boring, predictable etc. Dutch football is on the decline. We were lucky last season to get where we did. Time for change before things get worse!

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by lightning strikes » 22 Oct 2017 08:03

NewCorkSeth wrote:
blueroyals wrote:We always struggle against big, strong teams so the result was not a surprise for me

Performance was concerning but again if you don't play a striker you're not going to score goals? Feels like the season is a write off unless BT has something up his sleeve for Jan

Yeah.. Its not like Spain won the Euros with a false 9....

Queue everyone saying "we're not Spain"

I know we don't have the same quality players as Spain but we're not playing international quality teams. It's not an excuse. Playing tactics that require a striker while not having a striker on the pitch is an issue.


Exactly, as I said in the match thread, we were excellent against Villa playing with a false nine.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by CountryRoyal » 22 Oct 2017 08:39

Half the reason we were good against Villa is because they decided not to press us. That's one thing we have demonstrated over the last year, if you give us time and space to play then we will invariably punish you. Unfortunately it doesn't take a huge amount of defensive nous to nullify our threat, and we haven't yet come up with answers on how to deal with that. Personally I don't think we are technically good enough to be able to, and I don't think, at this level, we ever will be.

The more teams realise how to play against us its only going to get harder and as long as that's the case I think we will need a change of approach, I don't think we will get it under Stam though however.


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Hound » 22 Oct 2017 08:50

Don’t really agree with the pressing. Other teams have not pressed and sat back, and actually nullified us more (Norwich and Hull imo didn’t really press up Top)

Think that’s a big oversimplification

In a way you play the possession style expecting the oppo to press, the aim is to tire them out and pick out gaps.

Simple thing is we just need to play better. Tactics going forward need to be better, movement needs to be better and we need to stop conceding every bloody game

Think we have to be looking at getting Swift and Kelly back involved. Technically they are our best midfielders and can pick the gaps and runs that Barrow and Aluko should be making

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by under the tin » 22 Oct 2017 09:08

CountryRoyal wrote:Half the reason we were good against Villa is because they decided not to press us. That's one thing we have demonstrated over the last year, if you give us time and space to play then we will invariably punish you. Unfortunately it doesn't take a huge amount of defensive nous to nullify our threat, and we haven't yet come up with answers on how to deal with that. Personally I don't think we are technically good enough to be able to, and I don't think, at this level, we ever will be.

The more teams realise how to play against us its only going to get harder and as long as that's the case I think we will need a change of approach, I don't think we will get it under Stam though however.


+100000.
TBF, Stam was sussed out by most of the other managers in this league towards the tail end of last season.
Sure, we were on a bit of a roll, and edgy, scrappy wins back then in front of a lukewarm Madstad audience only served to paper over the cracks.

The expensive additions to that squad have not added very much to the team's football product, with players being shoe-horned into unfamiliar positions, and you get the feeling that the chemistry in the dressing room has been soured as a result.

Brain McDermott's skill was in maximising what he had available, and getting the best out of that group by utilising a style that played to the available staff's strengths.
Brendan Rogers, on the other hand, decided that his system was more important than staff morale, results, and fan approval.
We all know what happened to him.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by glenroyal » 22 Oct 2017 09:36

blueroyals wrote: if you don't play a striker you're not going to score goals?


Haven't seen many games this season, but what I saw seemed typical of recent stats. Couldn't work out Aluko and Barrow - too lightweight, back to goal, try to win possession under pressure, then what? Unless Beerens was there to run onto something, nothing. (Clarke made the difference for them, and Sharp's goal was worth the ticket.)

Thought Moore was solid, Gunther solid enough, and Illori got better as the game went on, as did JvdB. But in general where were our midfield and our passing (on that narrow pitch)? Beerens would have been MotM until Swift came on. Swift and Clement totally changed the game. Last 10 or 15 mins were as exciting as any game we've seen in recent years. Swift a joy to watch.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by glenroyal » 22 Oct 2017 09:49

This. What I said.
Hound wrote:Don’t really agree with the pressing. Other teams have not pressed and sat back, and actually nullified us more (Norwich and Hull imo didn’t really press up Top)

Think that’s a big oversimplification

In a way you play the possession style expecting the oppo to press, the aim is to tire them out and pick out gaps.

Simple thing is we just need to play better. Tactics going forward need to be better, movement needs to be better and we need to stop conceding every bloody game

Think we have to be looking at getting Swift and Kelly back involved. Technically they are our best midfielders and can pick the gaps and runs that Barrow and Aluko should be making

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by glenroyal » 22 Oct 2017 10:05

NewCorkSeth wrote:
we struggled to much at all until the final quarter of the game ... Our fouling played right into their hands today allowing them to control the pace of the game, taking breathers when needed and taking quick balls at the right time. [See Ref below!]
Our defenders were ... easily led around by the Sheffield attackers.

Bacuna - ? - I couldn't quite tell what position he was playing and couldn't figure out what he was up to for long periods.
McShane - 4 - Not his fault he was the worst player to bring on.
Swift - 7 - A player we have missed badly. Can see him leaving in January for a smaller fee than we would like to see. MOTM.
Clement - 6 - Shortish cameo but actually tried. something a lot of players haven't been doing.

Ref - Fook me this guy didn't like to let small fouls go. Made the awful football on display worse by penalising every tiny indiscretion.



Yeah, forgot to mention the ref - bad form to do so in a losing game - but yeah, made it an awful game to watch either way.
Mrs G's comment was "Completely up himself." constantly correcting positions of kicks and throws and retaking for movement etc.
Only good thing we got from him was 5 mins stoppage time for no obvious reason.
Last edited by glenroyal on 22 Oct 2017 10:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Hound » 22 Oct 2017 10:17

HeinzGuderian wrote:
strap wrote:Not me, my boy who was scouting Sheff Utd for upcoming game v LUFC, (he's an RFC fan and former ST holder)

"Woeful. Men against boys. Only shining light was Swift who made a huge difference. No other positives whatsoever. Pathetic."

Rather think I trust a professional's view on the performance rather than the cr@p Stam spouts.


A year and a half and Stam hasn't worked out that if teams press us, we're oxf*rd.

Sheffield utd are everything I wish we were.


Last year, think it was the second game we played, Wolves presses us and battered us. Actually 1st game of season va Preston , second half they did it. It’s hardly a new tactic and one which we countered when playing well

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Oct 2017 10:29

glenroyal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
we struggled to much at all until the final quarter of the game ... Our fouling played right into their hands today allowing them to control the pace of the game, taking breathers when needed and taking quick balls at the right time. [See Ref below!]
Our defenders were ... easily led around by the Sheffield attackers.

Bacuna - ? - I couldn't quite tell what position he was playing and couldn't figure out what he was up to for long periods.
McShane - 4 - Not his fault he was the worst player to bring on.
Swift - 7 - A player we have missed badly. Can see him leaving in January for a smaller fee than we would like to see. MOTM.
Clement - 6 - Shortish cameo but actually tried. something a lot of players haven't been doing.

Ref - Fook me this guy didn't like to let small fouls go. Made the awful football on display worse by penalising every tiny indiscretion.



Yeah, forgot to mention the ref - bad form to do so in a losing game - but yeah, made it an awful game to watch either way.
Mrs G's comment was "Completely up himself." constantly correcting positions of kicks and throws and retaking for movement etc.
Only good thing we got from him was 5 mins stoppage time for no obvious reason.

Yeah forgot about the free kick in the first half taken 3 times. We were lucky there. Think your missus is probably spot on. Fancied himself the most important man in the world for those 90 minutes.

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