Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 11:39

Basildon The thing I cant get my head around is the fact we put out a defensive lineup last week which managed a clean sheet, something we have struggled to do all season, and he's then decided to change it again?

I still think Stam can turn this around but some of his decisions are baffling.


yep this totally.

I want him to turn it around as I think he has the ability to be an exceptional manager, but doesnt help himself with things like that. Sounds like Bacuna particularly who was MOTM the week before was made irrelevant by his change of position.

Back to Gunter/Moore/Ilori/Bacuna for Saturday please.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by genome » 23 Oct 2017 11:42


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by RG7Fan » 23 Oct 2017 12:13

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Snowflake Royal Because he thinks Smith is less good than Beerens, Aluko or Barrow being the obvious answer.

Clamour for Smith is very much a case of putting faith in someone purely because they're someone different who's not really been seen. Any striker, no matter their experience, quality or goalscoring record is not automatically superior to senior forwards. There's this weird obssession with football fans that it's better the devil you don't know.

Smith's had a couple of chances in the first team and not impressed. It's not even like he's scored loads in the Academy, a decent amount for sure, but the step up is huge.


Nah. Striker like certain other roles are specialist positions. The runs you need to make, where you need to be to receive the ball, being able to react to half chances all different to being a midfielder. Playing a small winger who isn't even quick is ridiculous. Ridiculous.

You need to play a specialist up front, who knows what to do. It's all about a team's balance.

Hence, why is Stam refusing to play a striker? It's a good question.

Especially as we are SHIT when we don't.

He's on borrowed time. I don't want him to go, but he can't keep making the same mistake over and over and over again. If he was working for me he'd be removed. He needs some sound/harsh advice.


It may be a specialist position, but clearly he feels that Smith is no where near the standard required to fill the role, so he needed to adapt accordingly. Samuel was so far off the pace last season despite being a 'specialist' in that position, you'd have thought people would have learnt about putting unproven strikers on a pedestal.


So why have him on the bench then?

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by leon » 23 Oct 2017 12:19

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Nah. Striker like certain other roles are specialist positions. The runs you need to make, where you need to be to receive the ball, being able to react to half chances all different to being a midfielder. Playing a small winger who isn't even quick is ridiculous. Ridiculous.

You need to play a specialist up front, who knows what to do. It's all about a team's balance.

Hence, why is Stam refusing to play a striker? It's a good question.

Especially as we are SHIT when we don't.

He's on borrowed time. I don't want him to go, but he can't keep making the same mistake over and over and over again. If he was working for me he'd be removed. He needs some sound/harsh advice.


It may be a specialist position, but clearly he feels that Smith is no where near the standard required to fill the role, so he needed to adapt accordingly. Samuel was so far off the pace last season despite being a 'specialist' in that position, you'd have thought people would have learnt about putting unproven strikers on a pedestal.


So why have him on the bench then?


Well quite.

I'm not where this "pedestal" business comes from. No ones saying the boy's a superstar but clearly Stam's other option up front really doesn't work. He needs to try something different. Play a number 10 linking up midfield and a lone striker, put Mcshane up front and bang a load of long balls to him. Something. Anything. :wink:

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by tidus_mi2 » 23 Oct 2017 12:34

leon
tidus_mi2 How do you figure we are sliding to relegation? We're currently better than 4 teams and have a game in hand, not a great season by any stretch of the imagination and yes, currently we're around the relegation zone but if you transposed all results across the rest of the season, we'd probably actually go up a place or 2 because of that game in hand.

Frankly, I think we'll be fine, finish mid-table and then have to get it right next summer, Kermorgant is retiring so will need to be replaced and if anything, there will probably be more pressure on Stam should the owners keep him on for the season, it makes me wonder how much time the over-achievements of last season will buy him but I don't think we're ready to get rid of him just yet.

Stam is still a big name in football, certainly at the level we're at so can be the deciding factor on whether a player joins us or not and to be honest, who is available right now that will guarantee us an improvement in results?


Come on. You know as well as I do that there's usually a team that struggles throughout the season and then drops like a stone. One or two of the teams in the zone might rally and then we're right in it.

Nothing is certain obviously but we have the stench of death about us at the moment.

I'm not 100% convinced we will stay up but I'm pretty confident, my one concern right now is that Sunderland are behind us and I would see them as one of the sides who will surely improve over the course of the season. I'm less convinced about Burton, Birmingham and Bolton.


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by leon » 23 Oct 2017 12:37

tidus_mi2
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tidus_mi2 How do you figure we are sliding to relegation? We're currently better than 4 teams and have a game in hand, not a great season by any stretch of the imagination and yes, currently we're around the relegation zone but if you transposed all results across the rest of the season, we'd probably actually go up a place or 2 because of that game in hand.

Frankly, I think we'll be fine, finish mid-table and then have to get it right next summer, Kermorgant is retiring so will need to be replaced and if anything, there will probably be more pressure on Stam should the owners keep him on for the season, it makes me wonder how much time the over-achievements of last season will buy him but I don't think we're ready to get rid of him just yet.

Stam is still a big name in football, certainly at the level we're at so can be the deciding factor on whether a player joins us or not and to be honest, who is available right now that will guarantee us an improvement in results?


Come on. You know as well as I do that there's usually a team that struggles throughout the season and then drops like a stone. One or two of the teams in the zone might rally and then we're right in it.

Nothing is certain obviously but we have the stench of death about us at the moment.

I'm not 100% convinced we will stay up but I'm pretty confident, my one concern right now is that Sunderland are behind us and I would see them as one of the sides who will surely improve over the course of the season. I'm less convinced about Burton, Birmingham and Bolton.


I think that's a fair assessment. It's not ideal though is it?

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Oct 2017 12:51

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Nah. Striker like certain other roles are specialist positions. The runs you need to make, where you need to be to receive the ball, being able to react to half chances all different to being a midfielder. Playing a small winger who isn't even quick is ridiculous. Ridiculous.

You need to play a specialist up front, who knows what to do. It's all about a team's balance.

Hence, why is Stam refusing to play a striker? It's a good question.

Especially as we are SHIT when we don't.

He's on borrowed time. I don't want him to go, but he can't keep making the same mistake over and over and over again. If he was working for me he'd be removed. He needs some sound/harsh advice.


It may be a specialist position, but clearly he feels that Smith is no where near the standard required to fill the role, so he needed to adapt accordingly. Samuel was so far off the pace last season despite being a 'specialist' in that position, you'd have thought people would have learnt about putting unproven strikers on a pedestal.


So why have him on the bench then?

Matchday squad experience.
The chance to give him a run out if we're winning (lol) with a few minutes to go. It's not like places on the bench are at a premium with 7 slots.
Would you have been happy if Stam named only 6 subs because he didn't intend to plau him at all?

And perhaps, Stam didn't think he's good enough to start, but might be a useful option depending on circumstance compared to the other forwards he didn't start.

It only takes a tiny bit of effort to come up with perfectly reasonable explanations.

He's obviously being groomed as a possible genuine first teamer, but equally as obvious isn't ready or what we need right now.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by WAZZOCK » 23 Oct 2017 13:15

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That's fine as manager he makes the decisions.

So why was he on the bench?

And why did we start the season with only ONE fit striker that he thought was "near the standard required to fit the role"

And one that he bought and then doesn't even play?

Pertinent questions.


He was on the bench because we are so threadbare he needed to be, pretty simple to figure out.

We started the season with one fit striker because he was clearly let down by the people tasked with bring players in, owner, CEO, DoF.

He decided against playing JdB when he was fit about twice, clearly he has learnt from this mistake and would play him if he had him at his disposal now.

Not pertinent questions at all, very simple and narrow minded in fact.


Apologies for being so narrow minded. It's funny what utterly shit football, relegation form and seemingly no attempts to rectify it can do to a man.

So not playing a striker is a better option than playing a formation that clearly does not work?

Sorry being narrow minded again.

If we get relegated (which at the rate after 12 games we are heading for. No?) it won't be Stams fault? It will be injuries, the director of football, negative fans?

I'm struggling to see improvement or Stam learning anything. Please let me know if you are.


Apologies accepted.

Stam's improvement came in the Leeds fixture, where he acknowledged that we needed Bodvarsson to lead the line after leaving him out of the team a couple of times. Unfortunately he wasn't able to build on that over the weekend when his plans were scuppered with JdB's injury.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by RG7Fan » 23 Oct 2017 13:18

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It may be a specialist position, but clearly he feels that Smith is no where near the standard required to fill the role, so he needed to adapt accordingly. Samuel was so far off the pace last season despite being a 'specialist' in that position, you'd have thought people would have learnt about putting unproven strikers on a pedestal.


So why have him on the bench then?

Matchday squad experience.
The chance to give him a run out if we're winning (lol) with a few minutes to go. It's not like places on the bench are at a premium with 7 slots.
Would you have been happy if Stam named only 6 subs because he didn't intend to plau him at all?

And perhaps, Stam didn't think he's good enough to start, but might be a useful option depending on circumstance compared to the other forwards he didn't start.

It only takes a tiny bit of effort to come up with perfectly reasonable explanations.

He's obviously being groomed as a possible genuine first teamer, but equally as obvious isn't ready or what we need right now.


I agree BUT we were 2-0 down with a formation that hasn't performed and with no recognised striker on the pitch. He may as well have put Dave Beasant on the bench ...


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by WAZZOCK » 23 Oct 2017 13:19

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So why have him on the bench then?

Matchday squad experience.
The chance to give him a run out if we're winning (lol) with a few minutes to go. It's not like places on the bench are at a premium with 7 slots.
Would you have been happy if Stam named only 6 subs because he didn't intend to plau him at all?

And perhaps, Stam didn't think he's good enough to start, but might be a useful option depending on circumstance compared to the other forwards he didn't start.

It only takes a tiny bit of effort to come up with perfectly reasonable explanations.

He's obviously being groomed as a possible genuine first teamer, but equally as obvious isn't ready or what we need right now.


I agree BUT we were 2-0 down with a formation that hasn't performed and with no recognised striker on the pitch. He may as well have put Dave Beasant on the bench ...


Beasant would've been on the bench HTH

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Hound » 23 Oct 2017 13:20

fair points with Smith. But sounds like the 2 subs he did make (excluding McShane as not really sure why he bothered with that) actually made us look a lot better.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by mambo3 » 23 Oct 2017 16:22

WAZZOCK I think Stam is getting a bit of unfair criticism regarding the transfer activity over the summer, and it is in fact Gourlay and Tevreden who should be on the receiving end of it. No doubt it was identified we needed one or two further additions up top, but at the end of the day Jaap isn't the man who is tasked with picking up and phone and negotiating deals with clubs and players. These two failed Jaap in this regard, so I would be very disappointed if he was the man who got the chop as a result.

He's also been a tad unlucky that of the two strikers that can lead the line, one hasn't kicked a ball and the other has been out for at least half the season so far. I get fans' frustrations about not playing Smith, but we have to respect that fact that Jaap an his numerous coaching staff see these guys day in day out - if these guys don't think he's ready then it's very likely he isn't. Let's not forget there were similar murmurs about Samuel last season, and when he did get the opportunity he flattered to deceive.


Check the minutes played to goals scored. Check when he scored he got subbed the next game, Cooper a defender came on when we needed a striker who was sitting on the bench. Mendes scores against Aston Villa what happens next? Bodvasson same thing. Grabban comes in as an alternative for Samuel, did he score more? Sam Smith ground hog day

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Oct 2017 19:27

WTAF were Gunter and Aluko doing for Sharp's goal. Gunter, I can understand, he's going to feel he needs to tuck in behind the CBs and protect the six hard box, but he gets no where near cutting out the ball and he should be calling Aluko to pick up his man. Instead Aluko watches Sharp standing in acres of space behind Gunter, and then has the temerity to make out like it's Gunter's fault for not marking a man he can't see.

Their first was just one of those things really. Great hit. Blackett maybe could have been tighter for the cross, but that's about as close as Gunter ever gets to his man on the wing, usually he gives them more space. No time for the midfield to shuffle and block. Maybe Berg got sucked too deep into the CB ranks.


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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by WAZZOCK » 23 Oct 2017 20:04

mambo3
WAZZOCK I think Stam is getting a bit of unfair criticism regarding the transfer activity over the summer, and it is in fact Gourlay and Tevreden who should be on the receiving end of it. No doubt it was identified we needed one or two further additions up top, but at the end of the day Jaap isn't the man who is tasked with picking up and phone and negotiating deals with clubs and players. These two failed Jaap in this regard, so I would be very disappointed if he was the man who got the chop as a result.

He's also been a tad unlucky that of the two strikers that can lead the line, one hasn't kicked a ball and the other has been out for at least half the season so far. I get fans' frustrations about not playing Smith, but we have to respect that fact that Jaap an his numerous coaching staff see these guys day in day out - if these guys don't think he's ready then it's very likely he isn't. Let's not forget there were similar murmurs about Samuel last season, and when he did get the opportunity he flattered to deceive.


Check the minutes played to goals scored. Check when he scored he got subbed the next game, Cooper a defender came on when we needed a striker who was sitting on the bench. Mendes scores against Aston Villa what happens next? Bodvasson same thing. Grabban comes in as an alternative for Samuel, did he score more? Sam Smith ground hog day


Sorry, that reads awfully and I'm a bit confused as to what your point is. Do you want to have another go?

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Oct 2017 20:34

I've just checked. Grabban scored more than Samuel.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Elm Park Kid » 23 Oct 2017 21:12

Hound fair points with Smith. But sounds like the 2 subs he did make (excluding McShane as not really sure why he bothered with that) actually made us look a lot better.


What made us look better was Sheff Utd taking their foot off the gas and allowing us time on the ball.

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by leon » 23 Oct 2017 21:43



Yes this did make me chuckle

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by John Smith » 24 Oct 2017 09:07

Can Aluko not play as a lone striker? I'm sure he did for Hull?

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 24 Oct 2017 11:38

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It may be a specialist position, but clearly he feels that Smith is no where near the standard required to fill the role, so he needed to adapt accordingly. Samuel was so far off the pace last season despite being a 'specialist' in that position, you'd have thought people would have learnt about putting unproven strikers on a pedestal.


So why have him on the bench then?

Matchday squad experience.
The chance to give him a run out if we're winning (lol) with a few minutes to go. It's not like places on the bench are at a premium with 7 slots.
Would you have been happy if Stam named only 6 subs because he didn't intend to plau him at all?

And perhaps, Stam didn't think he's good enough to start, but might be a useful option depending on circumstance compared to the other forwards he didn't start.

It only takes a tiny bit of effort to come up with perfectly reasonable explanations.

He's obviously being groomed as a possible genuine first teamer, but equally as obvious isn't ready or what we need right now.


So bringing on McShane up top for the last few minutes v Sheff Utd was a better option than Smith? Having Smith on the bench and not choosing to use him when we're desperate for a goal isn't gonna do the young lads confidence any good is it? Surely he couldn't do any worse than the rest of our current (uninjured) options?

All Stam has to say is; " No pressure young man. Just go out there and enjoy it".

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Re: Sheffield Utd - Back from the game

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Oct 2017 12:16

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So why have him on the bench then?

Matchday squad experience.
The chance to give him a run out if we're winning (lol) with a few minutes to go. It's not like places on the bench are at a premium with 7 slots.
Would you have been happy if Stam named only 6 subs because he didn't intend to plau him at all?

And perhaps, Stam didn't think he's good enough to start, but might be a useful option depending on circumstance compared to the other forwards he didn't start.

It only takes a tiny bit of effort to come up with perfectly reasonable explanations.

He's obviously being groomed as a possible genuine first teamer, but equally as obvious isn't ready or what we need right now.


So bringing on McShane up top for the last few minutes v Sheff Utd was a better option than Smith? Having Smith on the bench and not choosing to use him when we're desperate for a goal isn't gonna do the young lads confidence any good is it? Surely he couldn't do any worse than the rest of our current (uninjured) options?

All Stam has to say is; " No pressure young man. Just go out there and enjoy it".

Clearly Stam thought so. From the little I've seen of Smith, he's certainly not a target man who will trouble senior Championship CBs any time soon. So if Stam brought on McShane and pushed him forward maybe that's what he wanted.

And maybe he thought sending out the club captain might add a bit of leadership.

It's really not hard to think of perfectly reasonable and logical reasons for putting Smith on the bench and not bringing him on if you just engage your brain for a second and give it a shot. You don't have to agree with them just think of what they might be to avoid asking stupud questions.

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