The "reward youth" debate

[muirinho]

No, I was against them being sent out on loan in the first place!

Thing is though, that it works for some, and doesn't for others. So - Hector benefitted enormously from being out on loan at Aberdeen. Jake Cooper suffered through not going out on loan.

It's all a gamble.

You can just as equally wreck a player's career by keeping him at the club, playing U21s, and the occasional 15 minute run-out, as by sending him out on loan to a club where he doesn't settle, is never played in the correct position, there's a change of manager and the new one's a nutcase.

I think I'd prefer to send them out unless they are good enough to get more than the occasional run-out. If they're not playing regularly in "real" football, they aren't developing as they should.

As well as a responsibility to the club, the academy has a responsibility to the players. Sending them out on loan is giving them a feel for what it would be like to be a professional player, rather than sheltering them in the academy. It's real life. If they're not good enough to at least make the bench at 20/21 (probably older for goalkeepers), it's not right to keep them in-house, it's stunting their growth as adults as well as footballers.

[NewCorkSeth]

As someone previously mentioned Ajax is a world famous club for developing youth prospects. I wonder how many of their youngsters are sent out on loan to play as you say "real" football. I'm not disagreeing but it would be interesting if they kept their players in house.

Athletic is another club that is held high for developing youth as they don't really participate in the transfer market like other clubs. Of course its entirely different as they havent signed 15-20ish players over the last 2 seasons.

[From Despair To Where?]

Jong Ajax play in the second tier of Dutch football.


There is no right or wrong answers, some players benefit from loans, others don't. Some players are ready to step up, others aren't. The only thing you can do is trust that the club are in the best position to judge what each player needs.

[Hound]

The best bet imo really is to have a network of clubs (like Bath) where you can give the players first team action but also get reliable reports and know they are being looked after

[NewCorkSeth]

Jong Ajax play in the second tier of Dutch football.


There is no right or wrong answers, some players benefit from loans, others don't. Some players are ready to step up, others aren't. The only thing you can do is trust that the club are in the best position to judge what each player needs.

Perhaps then treating the under21s Premier League (or whatever its called) as a more serious competition and setting the team goals in the Checkatrade Trophy would make sense for the club? Make it a bit more comparable to League football?

[Nameless]

Jong Ajax play in the second tier of Dutch football.


There is no right or wrong answers, some players benefit from loans, others don't. Some players are ready to step up, others aren't. The only thing you can do is trust that the club are in the best position to judge what each player needs.

Perhaps then treating the under21s Premier League (or whatever its called) as a more serious competition and setting the team goals in the Checkatrade Trophy would make sense for the club? Make it a bit more comparable to League football?

Except you cannot get continuity of selection in those games unless you do what is done in other countries and effectively turn your development side into a standalone club.
Currently the U21/u23 side changes because it has to adjust to different age regulations, has to fit in first team players needing games, has to work around international call ups and players who are eligible for multiple age categories, plus you have to ensure all your young players are getting games so you must have rotation. There may also be issues on how many games some of the younger players are allowed to play and how close together (although these rules might not apply to players at pro clubs, can’t remember)

[From Despair To Where?]

Jong Ajax play in the second tier of Dutch football.


There is no right or wrong answers, some players benefit from loans, others don't. Some players are ready to step up, others aren't. The only thing you can do is trust that the club are in the best position to judge what each player needs.

Perhaps then treating the under21s Premier League (or whatever its called) as a more serious competition and setting the team goals in the Checkatrade Trophy would make sense for the club? Make it a bit more comparable to League football?

i'm sure the club treat The U21's premier league very seriously but it is still basically an age group league, short of making it an open age reserve league, I'm not sure how they could change it and it would defeat the point of having an academy league. I presume you're not suggesting Cat 1 academy teams being introduced into the Football League? As for the Checkatrade Trophy, I'm not even sure how seriously Football League teams take it in the group stages.

I'd love to see the first team full of academy graduates but they have to be there because they are good enough.

[Hound]

I think they treat the U23 stuff very seriously, and thats why the players that have got their chance have done so.

Certainly Barrett earned his place on the bench on the strength on his performances in that league

[If you still hate Futcher]

Bond's a strange one. They rated him last season as well from what I could gather. I'd have thought he'd been a good backup for Mannone tbh, but Stam doesnt seem to particularly like him at all

Obvs he didn't do brilliantly for us, but thought he had potential. Would be a little sad to see him just disappear at the end of his contract as seems likely

Difficult one, I know it's probably impractical but I'd like any number 2 keeper to be out on loan getting experience rather than just sat on the bench gathering dust every week. It must be awful to be in that role and never playing aside from the odd Academy or cup game.

Agree Bond has potential and would like to see him get a new deal at Reading but given Mannone is more experienced, pretty decent and still only 29 I can't see any changes in the no.1 department for a few years barring serious injury, a catastrophic loss of form or getting and holding onto a place in the PL. Therefore expect Bond to be off for nowt in the summer (and isn't Jaakkola's deal also up?)

I'm not sure Bond is a good fit for the "sweeper-keeper" that our style of play requires. I accept he's had time to progress but remember he looked very uncomfortable with the ball at his feet in the 1st team appearances he made for us a couple of seasons ago

[Marino13]

it's a double edged sword
this debate. give youth a chance?
well, given that managers get fired
so quickly these days, they generally
can't give youth a chance!

[3points]

I know the theory behind the U23 league, but would they be better returning to a more traditional reserve/B team type league? That way the U23s would potentially get to play against older/more experienced players? Pros and cons I suppose

[Marino13]

with managers getting the sack
every 5 seconds, is it any wonder
why clubs send a lot of players out
on loan to get 1st team experience?
too much of a risk for them to blood
youth (a few) from development teams
to 1st team. sending them out on loan
gives them a better idea how they would
perform at a higher level.

[Nameless]

I know the theory behind the U23 league, but would they be better returning to a more traditional reserve/B team type league? That way the U23s would potentially get to play against older/more experienced players? Pros and cons I suppose

Except we would also then be fielding a traditional reserve team made up of older/more experienced pros and our youngsters would be left with nowhere to play !
Not sure including cons in sides is such a good idea. There can’t be enough of them to make up a decent side. There’s the Plymouth keeper and Marlon King but how many other players have criminal records ?

[Stranded]

I know the theory behind the U23 league, but would they be better returning to a more traditional reserve/B team type league? That way the U23s would potentially get to play against older/more experienced players? Pros and cons I suppose

I'd question how may clubs would have too many experienced pros playing in these games. They can already play 3 outfield players over the age of 23 and the GK also has no age limit. If they removed the limit and went back to reserve team football then the pathway would be blocked.

As it is anyway, clubs tend to send out the u23's who are considered nearly ready for 1st team football out on loan to get proper 1st team experience, the u23's is almost the level below that.

I guess they could change the rule to ensure each team has to pick 4 over 23's but again could block the pathway for some. In my mind the U23 league as is, is the best compromise between reserve and youth football. It's not perfect but better than has previously existed.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

I know the theory behind the U23 league, but would they be better returning to a more traditional reserve/B team type league? That way the U23s would potentially get to play against older/more experienced players? Pros and cons I suppose

Except we would also then be fielding a traditional reserve team made up of older/more experienced pros and our youngsters would be left with nowhere to play !
Not sure including cons in sides is such a good idea. There can’t be enough of them to make up a decent side. There’s the Plymouth keeper and Marlon King but how many other players have criminal records ?

I see what you did there. Bravo sir!

[SCIAG]

I presume you're not suggesting Cat 1 academy teams being introduced into the Football League?

Now we're talking!

Introduce a new tier, League 3, just above the National League. Then run it like in Spain - youth teams must be in a lower division than their parent club and there should be regulations limiting the number of games a senior player can play in the youth team.

[Snowflake Royal]

I presume you're not suggesting Cat 1 academy teams being introduced into the Football League?

Now we're talking!

Introduce a new tier, League 3, just above the National League. Then run it like in Spain - youth teams must be in a lower division than their parent club and there should be regulations limiting the number of games a senior player can play in the youth team.

Absolutely No.

[From Despair To Where?]

I presume you're not suggesting Cat 1 academy teams being introduced into the Football League?

Now we're talking!

Introduce a new tier, League 3, just above the National League. Then run it like in Spain - youth teams must be in a lower division than their parent club and there should be regulations limiting the number of games a senior player can play in the youth team.

Absolutely No.

Exactly what I thought. This country has a long established league structure that works and does not need puffing out with academy sides to make up the numbers.

[Sutekh]

Now we're talking!

Introduce a new tier, League 3, just above the National League. Then run it like in Spain - youth teams must be in a lower division than their parent club and there should be regulations limiting the number of games a senior player can play in the youth team.

Absolutely No.

Exactly what I thought. This country has a long established league structure that works and does not need puffing out with academy sides to make up the numbers.

Bring back proper reserve team football.

[SCIAG]

Bring back proper reserve team football.

Would make no difference. Clubs are already allowed to field 3 overage players + GK, but very rarely hit that.

Now we're talking!

Introduce a new tier, League 3, just above the National League. Then run it like in Spain - youth teams must be in a lower division than their parent club and there should be regulations limiting the number of games a senior player can play in the youth team.

Absolutely No.

Exactly what I thought. This country has a long established league structure that works

By what measure?

Our leading clubs struggle to compete in European competitions. Our national team gets worse with every passing tournament. In the lower leagues, standards are low, prices are high, managers are still sacked as a matter of routine and most clubs have extremely perilous financial situations. Attendances are falling. Clubs have to spend large amounts of money signing players from abroad who often aren't even internationals. I'd say that the current system is doing very badly.