BFTG - Wolves

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Lower West
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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Lower West » 19 Nov 2017 16:49

bcubed wrote:So why move Bacuna? He looked lost bemused and frankly pissed off at right back
Why play Gunter at left back where he also looked uncomfortable
And why drop Omar and Aluko?

It beggars belief.



Totally different opposition. Unlike Deby had real pace and width. Aluko wasn't a 100% fit. Omar is one for the future.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by The Royal Forester » 19 Nov 2017 17:03

Lower West wrote:
Victor Meldrew wrote:Stam's comments about Beerens after the game were surprising-what does he see that we don't?



The common sense not to undermine his players in public.


So, why didn't Stam have the common sense not to say that Illori was taken off the pitch as he was having a poor game? Surely, that would also be undermining a player in public.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Victor Meldrew » 19 Nov 2017 17:28

The Royal Forester wrote:
Lower West wrote:
Victor Meldrew wrote:Stam's comments about Beerens after the game were surprising-what does he see that we don't?



The common sense not to undermine his players in public.


So, why didn't Stam have the common sense not to say that Illori was taken off the pitch as he was having a poor game? Surely, that would also be undermining a player in public.


Double Dutch.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Lower West » 19 Nov 2017 17:37

Victor Meldrew wrote:
The Royal Forester wrote:
Lower West wrote:
The common sense not to undermine his players in public.


So, why didn't Stam have the common sense not to say that Illori was taken off the pitch as he was having a poor game? Surely, that would also be undermining a player in public.


Double Dutch.


The player obviously wasnt ready to play again so soon. Totally different to berating a player for the way they consistantly perform. Managers have to work with the players they have at their disposal.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by RoyalBlue » 19 Nov 2017 17:46

Hound wrote:I think Beerens is a useful player. I don’t ‘hate’ him or think he is useless but I just don’t think he is as good a player as Barrow, Aluko or Popa in the system we are trying to play

He strikes me as a 4-4-2 wide midfielder/winger who would like two big men to aim for. He is probably the best crosser at the club for that. And at times this season that might be exactly how we’ll play him


I'm glad that someone else can see through the 'wall of Beerens' is crap' and recognise some of the strengths that he has. He is an excellent crosser of the ball - it was he who set Barrow up with the chance on a plate that somehow Ruddy saved. That moment also belies the 'lazy claim' given his fast and well timed run to pick up Bacuna's pass forward, pretty late in the game.

And for the intellectually challenged who demand that wingers throw themselves into challenges like good old fashioned centre-halves - if that was their mindset and physicality, they probably wouldn't be any good as a winger!


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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Lower West » 19 Nov 2017 19:18

RoyalBlue wrote:
Hound wrote:I think Beerens is a useful player. I don’t ‘hate’ him or think he is useless but I just don’t think he is as good a player as Barrow, Aluko or Popa in the system we are trying to play

He strikes me as a 4-4-2 wide midfielder/winger who would like two big men to aim for. He is probably the best crosser at the club for that. And at times this season that might be exactly how we’ll play him


I'm glad that someone else can see through the 'wall of Beerens' is crap' and recognise some of the strengths that he has. He is an excellent crosser of the ball - it was he who set Barrow up with the chance on a plate that somehow Ruddy saved. That moment also belies the 'lazy claim' given his fast and well timed run to pick up Bacuna's pass forward, pretty late in the game.

And for the intellectually challenged who demand that wingers throw themselves into challenges like good old fashioned centre-halves - if that was their mindset and physicality, they probably wouldn't be any good as a winger!


Certainly not useless. However gives up and walks far too quickly. Rather than tracking back. Both Aluk and Barrow in comparison do track back and at least helps the team to defend.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by bcubed » 19 Nov 2017 23:01

muirinho wrote:
bcubed wrote:
Hound wrote:I think stam is planning very much for the fact we have a glut of games. I reckon Richards will be back in against Bolton, as will Edwards. I suspect Aluko wasn’t fully fit, and neither are Yann or Bod

Like I said, no real issues with the team selection bar Beerens. Equally the sub of Edwards for Ilori was a good one


You haven't mentioned Bacuna
As I said he above he was outstanding v Derby and ran the game
Why change?


Because - if he wanted to protect Richards, and didn't trust Blackett, he didn't have an alternative wing-back/full back. And Bacuna has had at least one very good game at right back - so much so that people were saying he should be ahead of Gunter.

I'd have preferred Edwards on from the start instead of Joey, and Beerens is a bit of a mystery to me. But otherwise I could see the reasoning.


Not a good plan if that was the case was it?

I don't think Omar needed protecting
He looked incredibly confident - often the way with youngsters

And Bacuna was so good in that position the team could and should have been built around him

And as I said above I don't think Stam persuaded him of the revised tactics. He looked disinterested in his new right back role

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by muirinho » 19 Nov 2017 23:11

bcubed wrote:
muirinho wrote:
bcubed wrote:
You haven't mentioned Bacuna
As I said he above he was outstanding v Derby and ran the game
Why change?


Because - if he wanted to protect Richards, and didn't trust Blackett, he didn't have an alternative wing-back/full back. And Bacuna has had at least one very good game at right back - so much so that people were saying he should be ahead of Gunter.

I'd have preferred Edwards on from the start instead of Joey, and Beerens is a bit of a mystery to me. But otherwise I could see the reasoning.


Not a good plan if that was the case was it?

I don't think Omar needed protecting
He looked incredibly confident - often the way with youngsters

And Bacuna was so good in that position the team could and should have been built around him

And as I said above I don't think Stam persuaded him of the revised tactics. He looked disinterested in his new right back role


Bacuna was excellent in the right back position for two games, I certainly don't think it was unreasonable for Stam to decide he could do it again. Go back and look at the reviews of the Leeds and Forest games, if you didn't see the games yourself. He got player of the month, but only played in midfield for one of those games. If he was suddenly disinterested (as opposed to just having an off day) then that's on Bacuna, not on Stam.

And it is generally advised to be careful with playing youngsters too much, not because of confidence, but because of the risk of injury. We have 4 games in a fortnight. If Richards doesn't play any of them, then I'd be questionging Stam's decisions. But we're only 1 game into that group.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by bcubed » 19 Nov 2017 23:34

muirinho wrote:
bcubed wrote:
muirinho wrote:
Because - if he wanted to protect Richards, and didn't trust Blackett, he didn't have an alternative wing-back/full back. And Bacuna has had at least one very good game at right back - so much so that people were saying he should be ahead of Gunter.

I'd have preferred Edwards on from the start instead of Joey, and Beerens is a bit of a mystery to me. But otherwise I could see the reasoning.


Not a good plan if that was the case was it?

I don't think Omar needed protecting
He looked incredibly confident - often the way with youngsters

And Bacuna was so good in that position the team could and should have been built around him

And as I said above I don't think Stam persuaded him of the revised tactics. He looked disinterested in his new right back role


Bacuna was excellent in the right back position for two games, I certainly don't think it was unreasonable for Stam to decide he could do it again. Go back and look at the reviews of the Leeds and Forest games, if you didn't see the games yourself. He got player of the month, but only played in midfield for one of those games. If he was suddenly disinterested (as opposed to just having an off day) then that's on Bacuna, not on Stam.

And it is generally advised to be careful with playing youngsters too much, not because of confidence, but because of the risk of injury. We have 4 games in a fortnight. If Richards doesn't play any of them, then I'd be questionging Stam's decisions. But we're only 1 game into that group.


I'm guessing you didn't go to the Derby game?


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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by leon » 20 Nov 2017 00:12

RoyalBlue wrote:
Hound wrote:I think Beerens is a useful player. I don’t ‘hate’ him or think he is useless but I just don’t think he is as good a player as Barrow, Aluko or Popa in the system we are trying to play

He strikes me as a 4-4-2 wide midfielder/winger who would like two big men to aim for. He is probably the best crosser at the club for that. And at times this season that might be exactly how we’ll play him


I'm glad that someone else can see through the 'wall of Beerens' is crap' and recognise some of the strengths that he has. He is an excellent crosser of the ball - it was he who set Barrow up with the chance on a plate that somehow Ruddy saved. That moment also belies the 'lazy claim' given his fast and well timed run to pick up Bacuna's pass forward, pretty late in the game.

And for the intellectually challenged who demand that wingers throw themselves into challenges like good old fashioned centre-halves - if that was their mindset and physicality, they probably wouldn't be any good as a winger!


So he can’t do any physical stuff (like contact) because he’s a winger?

If he is a winger then he should be able to beat people? Actually go past them? Create space to receive the ball? Pressure the opposition defence? Pass the ball? No?

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by biff » 20 Nov 2017 02:53

Early in the first half there was a fantastically built attack down the left that ended when Beerens was presented the chance to shoot at goal as the ball was played to him at the edge of the box. He didnt have a go because the CD was charging out. Absolute pussy.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by BR2 » 20 Nov 2017 10:42

The thing about Beerens is that he is not just soft (like most wingers other than the likes of Sir Steve) as Royal Blue says but he isn't now beating his man so ,in a position where Stam is spoiled for choice,most of the fans find it hard to understand why he gets picked ahead of the others.

Also as for Richards how much protection does he need (which one of the posters has raised)?
He isn't 16 is he like Sessegnon was when he started for Fulham (he may even have been only 15) so having made such a convincing debut away to Derby why not persevere rather than play a very right-footed defender out of position?

Team selection for Bolton will be interesting.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by John Smith » 20 Nov 2017 10:48

bcubed wrote:I'm guessing you didn't go to the Derby game?

You should try asking that very same question to this young man copied in...
LWJ wrote:.


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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by muirinho » 20 Nov 2017 12:18

bcubed wrote:
muirinho wrote:
bcubed wrote:
Not a good plan if that was the case was it?

I don't think Omar needed protecting
He looked incredibly confident - often the way with youngsters

And Bacuna was so good in that position the team could and should have been built around him

And as I said above I don't think Stam persuaded him of the revised tactics. He looked disinterested in his new right back role


Bacuna was excellent in the right back position for two games, I certainly don't think it was unreasonable for Stam to decide he could do it again. Go back and look at the reviews of the Leeds and Forest games, if you didn't see the games yourself. He got player of the month, but only played in midfield for one of those games. If he was suddenly disinterested (as opposed to just having an off day) then that's on Bacuna, not on Stam.

And it is generally advised to be careful with playing youngsters too much, not because of confidence, but because of the risk of injury. We have 4 games in a fortnight. If Richards doesn't play any of them, then I'd be questionging Stam's decisions. But we're only 1 game into that group.


I'm guessing you didn't go to the Derby game?


What has the Derby game got to do with it? Yes, he was very good in the centre for Derby. He was ALSO very good in the RB position in two other games. So - if Stam is more worried about the number of full backs he has got available than he is midfielders, why would he not play him at RB?

I think you're just arguing for the sake of it now.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by bcubed » 20 Nov 2017 13:48

muirinho wrote:
bcubed wrote:
muirinho wrote:
Bacuna was excellent in the right back position for two games, I certainly don't think it was unreasonable for Stam to decide he could do it again. Go back and look at the reviews of the Leeds and Forest games, if you didn't see the games yourself. He got player of the month, but only played in midfield for one of those games. If he was suddenly disinterested (as opposed to just having an off day) then that's on Bacuna, not on Stam.

And it is generally advised to be careful with playing youngsters too much, not because of confidence, but because of the risk of injury. We have 4 games in a fortnight. If Richards doesn't play any of them, then I'd be questionging Stam's decisions. But we're only 1 game into that group.


I'm guessing you didn't go to the Derby game?


What has the Derby game got to do with it? Yes, he was very good in the centre for Derby. He was ALSO very good in the RB position in two other games. So - if Stam is more worried about the number of full backs he has got available than he is midfielders, why would he not play him at RB?

I think you're just arguing for the sake of it now.


Because (and you clearly didn't go) the Derby game was the best I've seen us play for years
It was outstanding, far removed from any of the dreary efforts of earlier this year or last year

Sometimes as a manager, you happen on combinations of players in certain positions and it all works
That's what happened in my opinion and hence I am so disappointed he didn't stick with it
Key to it all was Bacuna in front of defence

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Sutekh » 20 Nov 2017 14:29

BR2 wrote:Also as for Richards how much protection does he need (which one of the posters has raised)?
He isn't 16 is he like Sessegnon was when he started for Fulham (he may even have been only 15) so having made such a convincing debut away to Derby why not persevere rather than play a very right-footed defender out of position?

Team selection for Bolton will be interesting.


Trouble is all Reading's youngsters play well on debut at Derby and then vanish without trace only to be farmed out to lower divisions sides on loan and then sold or released to one of them a season or two later.

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Hound » 20 Nov 2017 14:46

or one of them did anyway

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by genome » 20 Nov 2017 17:48

What are you talking about Hound? One = every Reading youngster that has played for the first team

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Re: BFTG - Wolves

by Hendo » 20 Nov 2017 17:51

bcubed wrote:
muirinho wrote:
bcubed wrote:
I'm guessing you didn't go to the Derby game?


What has the Derby game got to do with it? Yes, he was very good in the centre for Derby. He was ALSO very good in the RB position in two other games. So - if Stam is more worried about the number of full backs he has got available than he is midfielders, why would he not play him at RB?

I think you're just arguing for the sake of it now.


Because (and you clearly didn't go) the Derby game was the best I've seen us play for years
It was outstanding, far removed from any of the dreary efforts of earlier this year or last year

Sometimes as a manager, you happen on combinations of players in certain positions and it all works
That's what happened in my opinion and hence I am so disappointed he didn't stick with it
Key to it all was Bacuna in front of defence


Because, of course, football is a game where things happen exactly as they did the game before regardless of any number of possible variables.

Forest at home was probably the best game of the season up until the Derby game, and then Stam changed it, were you upset before kick-off of the Derby game?

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