BFTG -Bolton

NewCorkSeth
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BFTG -Bolton

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Nov 2017 22:53

I'm taken aback by how far we regressed in that match. I don't even know what to say about the tactics. We struggled to get forward again and amazingly almost every touch I saw on the attack was heavy. So many heavy through balls and lobs. Its nuts. To me it seemed, save a few players, our players have lost confidence completely.

Jaakola - 5 - Yes he made some good saves towards the end. Boltons goals were savable.
Gunter - 5 - Guilty of many heavy touches. Thought he was very, very poor.
McShane - 6 - Had some good drives forward but wasnt great. I cant remember him making a single tackle?
Moore - 8 - Great player in a very poor defense. Scored and Won a fair amount of aerial challenges.
Blackett - 4 - He is just so much better at attacking than defending. Silly foul followed by some sexy little touches in the opposition half.
Edwards - 6 - Don't know how anyone could choose him as man of the match. Often touched the ball a few feet too far. Anonymous at times.
Swift - N/A - For oxf*rd sake.
Aluko - 7 - Actually not awful. Tactics at fault, not him.
Barrow - 7 - see above. Won penalty.
Beerens - 6 - Didn't see the point in him being there. Silly decision.

Subs:
Clement - 5 - One good tackle. Way off pace in this team. Could be good.
Kelly - 6 - Poor free kick....
Bodvarson - 6 - Got himself about quite a bit. Slow eh?

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by FiNeRaIn » 21 Nov 2017 23:17

For a team that has one of the best defenders of a generation as the manager our defense has been quite honestly oxf*rd appalling. Coupled with the fact we have practically zilch up front it makes for a massively unbalanced and inconsistent team. Sure we looked decent against Wolves on the highlights, and many of their fans said we deserved at least a point but that's totally irrelevant when we have no consistency going forward and our defense is consistently leaking goals.

The playoffs look out of reach barring an automatic promotion style run of form and that's not going to happen with our lack of firepower. Stam takes a chunk of blame for odd lineups this season but whoever was the main force behind the recruitment this summer really set the club back a season. Sign a fvcking striker in January so he's settled for next year, offload some of the wingers we don't need and mold a balanced team, its so unorganized. We are 19th and 5 points above relegation, whilst I don't believe we are bad enough to go down, don't let a few decent performances in recent weeks paper the cracks on what has been frankly a disastrous season so far.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by bcubed » 22 Nov 2017 00:01

NewCorkSeth wrote:I'm taken aback by how far we regressed in that match. I don't even know what to say about the tactics. We struggled to get forward again and amazingly almost every touch I saw on the attack was heavy. So many heavy through balls and lobs. Its nuts. To me it seemed, save a few players, our players have lost confidence completely.

Jaakola - 5 - Yes he made some good saves towards the end. Boltons goals were savable.
Gunter - 5 - Guilty of many heavy touches. Thought he was very, very poor.
McShane - 6 - Had some good drives forward but wasnt great. I cant remember him making a single tackle?
Moore - 8 - Great player in a very poor defense. Scored and Won a fair amount of aerial challenges.
Blackett - 4 - He is just so much better at attacking than defending. Silly foul followed by some sexy little touches in the opposition half.
Edwards - 6 - Don't know how anyone could choose him as man of the match. Often touched the ball a few feet too far. Anonymous at times.
Swift - N/A - For oxf*rd sake.
Aluko - 7 - Actually not awful. Tactics at fault, not him.
Barrow - 7 - see above. Won penalty.
Beerens - 6 - Didn't see the point in him being there. Silly decision.

Subs:
Clement - 5 - One good tackle. Way off pace in this team. Could be good.
Kelly - 6 - Poor free kick....
Bodvarson - 6 - Got himself about quite a bit. Slow eh?


Bacuna surely deserves a mention?!

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by bcubed » 22 Nov 2017 00:03

FiNeRaIn wrote:For a team that has one of the best defenders of a generation as the manager our defense has been quite honestly oxf*rd appalling. Coupled with the fact we have practically zilch up front it makes for a massively unbalanced and inconsistent team. Sure we looked decent against Wolves on the highlights, and many of their fans said we deserved at least a point but that's totally irrelevant when we have no consistency going forward and our defense is consistently leaking goals.

The playoffs look out of reach barring an automatic promotion style run of form and that's not going to happen with our lack of firepower. Stam takes a chunk of blame for odd lineups this season but whoever was the main force behind the recruitment this summer really set the club back a season. Sign a fvcking striker in January so he's settled for next year, offload some of the wingers we don't need and mold a balanced team, its so unorganized. We are 19th and 5 points above relegation, whilst I don't believe we are bad enough to go down, don't let a few decent performances in recent weeks paper the cracks on what has been frankly a disastrous season so far.


Every team that gets relegated says we're not bad enough to go down at some point

I really think based on our typical performances (I.e. not Forest or Derby games) we are bad enough

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by Kitsondinho » 22 Nov 2017 00:56

We were awful in the first half. Yes we had most of the ball, but we did nothing with it. Then Swift got injured, Clement came on...first thing he did was miss the near post header and allowed Pratley to flick it on for Burke. He had the freedom of Bolton to head it back over Jaakkola. The second was even worse. This time Pratley was left completely free and headed in. Bolton were the polar opposite of our style and EXACTLY what you’d expect from Parky. However they were very clear in what they were trying to do and looked dangerous every time they came forward. Our first half was summed up by Jaakkola taking a goal kick amd calling Moore/McShane short. He then waited until the Bolton players followed them and finally waved them away. Then he waved everyone further up the pitch and into the middle.....before finally launching it straight down Pratley’s throat on the half way line! That whole sequence took about 2 mins! We were 2-0 down at that point, why were we messing about like that?!

2nd half was much better. We once again had much more of the ball, but we actually did something with it. Kelly and Jon Dadi changed the game. We looked a better and balanced team. At 2-2 we looked the most likely to win it......although our ridiculous defence almost threw the point away at the end. Overall I’m pleased, but the defence needs sorting urgently. It is still a shambles.


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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by Hound » 22 Nov 2017 07:37

We did well to come back from conceding 2 such awful goals

Another poster commented how good it was to see Yann at Wolves, mainly due to his defending at set pieces. Clearly missed him massively there. Joey as well to a lesser extent

Two more assists by Barrow. Glad him and Aluko continue to play well

Bod/Yann need to get themselves fit and in the side. That’s the biggest single change we need to make

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by Marino13 » 22 Nov 2017 08:44

good character to come back from 2 down.
i thought my prediction of 5-0 was going to be
correct at one point!

when the year ends in 8, we quite often get
relegated....

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by leon » 22 Nov 2017 08:56

Hound wrote:We did well to come back from conceding 2 such awful goals

Another poster commented how good it was to see Yann at Wolves, mainly due to his defending at set pieces. Clearly missed him massively there. Joey as well to a lesser extent

Two more assists by Barrow. Glad him and Aluko continue to play well

Bod/Yann need to get themselves fit and in the side. That’s the biggest single change we need to make


That was me. I also pointed out defensively we were still a shambles and questioned how Beerens was getting a game.

Those two points are still very valid.

Do we need a refresh in the coaching staff? Clearly we’re making easily rectifiable errors at the back.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by Lower West » 22 Nov 2017 08:58

Ok the two goals conceded were awful. Yet the performance overall was far from terrible. The response to going two goals down was excellent. This team is building character. They remained patient , composed, disciplined. . At no time did they resort to aimless balls. Stam can only pick the players available. While the league position may be disappointing the future does look increasingly brighter.

Struggling to remember Bolton playing any football as such. Seen better teams play in league 2 this season. Ground was devoid of atmosphere.

The summers signings are finally settling in. The passing and movement is getting better. Without doubt Barrow and Aluko are the first choice wide man. Edwards brings more to the team than you realise. Links play up well. Bacuna has real character. The sort of player one needs in a game like this. Last night you appreciated how good Mannone is with his feet. Jaakkola looked nervy at times.


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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by Stranded » 22 Nov 2017 09:19

Watched the game on Ifollow.

First half was disasterously bad. Whilst we were trying to play the passing game and had all the possession we did nothing with it and seemed to invite too much pressure at the back. Bolton did nothing - absolutely nothing - of any real note yet were gifted a two goal lead by us essentially forgetting they were on the pitch at set pieces.

Questions of a foul for their 2nd as Gunter was on the deck but no footage to confirm if it was.

Team got better from about 35mins and the passing football had more purpose - one great passage of play at that point which ripped Bolton to pieces and but for a last ditch clearance could have been contender for goal of the season. If Barrow had been braver from the resulting corner would have been 2-1 at HT.

Despite the awfulness, I was strangely confident that if the team could step up a gear they could get something out of the game, even win it, Bolton were that average. Glad to say they improved vastly and for large periods it was attack v defence. Sheer numbers got the ball over the line in the end before we got the penalty, was an easy call for the ref to make. 2-2.

After that, we huffed and puffed a bit but couldn't really use the momentum we had, in fact Bolton now had to come out and looked the most dangerous they had all game. Jakkola made a great save from yet another free header from a set piece before making an equally good save from Le Fondre with the last kick.

So overall, shoddy first half, decent second and if we could defend set pieces we'd have won comfortably. 7pts from 12 in the last 4 given who we've played is decent, need to use the two home games this week to move up the table a bit and see where we are and hopefully strenghten up top.

We aren't going down but we sure as hell aren't going up either.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by OLLIE KEARNS » 22 Nov 2017 10:40

Everyone wants us to buy a striker but our biggest problems are at the other end of the pitch. The defending for the two goals last night was a joke as was the first Wolves goal on Saturday. Only Moore and McShane are genuine defenders. Blackett has great physical presence but is devoid of tactical nous, Illori looks pretty on the ball but does none of the defending basics well (his QPR performance sticks in the mind as a complete shambles) and Gunter has no physical presence at all which resulted in a free header for the second goal last night. And before the Gunter lovers come back, yes there may have been a foul for the second but proper defenders quite simply don't end up on their arse 8 yards from goal when they need to defend at all costs.
With Barrow and Aluko settling in we are starting to look more of a threat going forwards but reality is that our goal difference is now neutral over a season and a half of football i.e mid table standard. Things could be so much different if we could acquire a couple of players that are real defenders first and foremost.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by LWJ » 22 Nov 2017 10:41

Stranded wrote:Questions of a foul for their 2nd as Gunter was on the deck but no footage to confirm if it was.

It looked like one too me, the players reactions certainly suggested it was as well.

The referee was very poor, let Bolton time waste and kick the ball away on a number of occasions really needed to take control of the game from early on.

The positive for me is that we always looked like scoring. Other posters are mentioning how bad we were in the first half but from memory I believe we created 3-4 good opportunities and had a goal disallowed during it? It was much like Wolves where we looked liked scoring freely, thankfully last night they didn't have Ruddy in goal to save them.

I'm disappointed that Blackett still gets given the chance to play, he costs us in nearly every game he plays in. I suggest we start a crowdfunder to get him released from his contract.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by LWJ » 22 Nov 2017 10:43

OLLIE KEARNS wrote:. And before the Gunter lovers come back, yes there may have been a foul for the second but proper defenders quite simply don't end up on their arse 8 yards from goal when they need to defend at all costs.

Really? No other defender has ever been pushed and gone over... ?


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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by OLLIE KEARNS » 22 Nov 2017 11:58

LWJ wrote:
OLLIE KEARNS wrote:. And before the Gunter lovers come back, yes there may have been a foul for the second but proper defenders quite simply don't end up on their arse 8 yards from goal when they need to defend at all costs.

Really? No other defender has ever been pushed and gone over... ?


Yep and 99 times out of a 100 they have hold of the other guy so they either both go over or the other player is at least put off balance. It happens in every Championship game. Leeds v Boro on Sunday was like a Sumo wrestling match at each set piece !
Maybe ask yourself how many times you see a player have a free header from a corner, 8 yards from goal in a central position. Pretty much never perhaps ? Especially when they didn't even have to make a run to lose a defender !

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by Stranded » 22 Nov 2017 12:06

OLLIE KEARNS wrote:
LWJ wrote:
OLLIE KEARNS wrote:. And before the Gunter lovers come back, yes there may have been a foul for the second but proper defenders quite simply don't end up on their arse 8 yards from goal when they need to defend at all costs.

Really? No other defender has ever been pushed and gone over... ?


Yep and 99 times out of a 100 they have hold of the other guy so they either both go over or the other player is at least put off balance. It happens in every Championship game. Leeds v Boro on Sunday was like a Sumo wrestling match at each set piece !
Maybe ask yourself how many times you see a player have a free header from a corner, 8 yards from goal in a central position. Pretty much never perhaps ? Especially when they didn't even have to make a run to lose a defender !


How about we wait and see if there is a better angle of their goal released where we can see what actually happened? For all we know he was shoved in the back and the ref missed it. Not much any defender could do about that, he's hardly just going to lie down is he whatever you think of him as a player.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by LWJ » 22 Nov 2017 12:09

OLLIE KEARNS wrote:
Yep and 99 times out of a 100 they have hold of the other guy so they either both go over or the other player is at least put off balance. It happens in every Championship game. Leeds v Boro on Sunday was like a Sumo wrestling match at each set piece !
Maybe ask yourself how many times you see a player have a free header from a corner, 8 yards from goal in a central position. Pretty much never perhaps ? Especially when they didn't even have to make a run to lose a defender !

He had a free header because Gunter was thrown to the floor.

You obviously dislike Gunter but there was nothing more he could do there as it was a blatant foul. Replays don't show the push so I will forgive you for having not seen it from your armchair.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by John Smith » 22 Nov 2017 12:21

LWJ wrote:
OLLIE KEARNS wrote:
Yep and 99 times out of a 100 they have hold of the other guy so they either both go over or the other player is at least put off balance. It happens in every Championship game. Leeds v Boro on Sunday was like a Sumo wrestling match at each set piece !
Maybe ask yourself how many times you see a player have a free header from a corner, 8 yards from goal in a central position. Pretty much never perhaps ? Especially when they didn't even have to make a run to lose a defender !

He had a free header because Gunter was thrown to the floor.

You obviously dislike Gunter but there was nothing more he could do there as it was a blatant foul. Replays don't show the push so I will forgive you for having not seen it from your armchair.

Were you at the game LWJ? The camera didn't pan to the away end so I couldn't see your flag

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by OLLIE KEARNS » 22 Nov 2017 12:22

LWJ wrote:
OLLIE KEARNS wrote:
Yep and 99 times out of a 100 they have hold of the other guy so they either both go over or the other player is at least put off balance. It happens in every Championship game. Leeds v Boro on Sunday was like a Sumo wrestling match at each set piece !
Maybe ask yourself how many times you see a player have a free header from a corner, 8 yards from goal in a central position. Pretty much never perhaps ? Especially when they didn't even have to make a run to lose a defender !

He had a free header because Gunter was thrown to the floor.

You obviously dislike Gunter but there was nothing more he could do there as it was a blatant foul. Replays don't show the push so I will forgive you for having not seen it from your armchair.


I appreciate your forgiveness :-) Just for the record and per many previous posts, I don't dislike him, I just consider him to be very average with his passive defending being his biggest weakness. He has his strengths as well. You'd never see him not track a run as Illori did on Saturday for example.
To my original question though, how many times have you seen this happen to other teams ? Is that because other teams don't have players that push defenders ? Or is it because Gunter is a very weak defender ? If he'd had hold off Pratley (as all other sides do) then either they'd have both gone over or just got into a stand up wrestling much. Either way, there wouldn't have been a free header from 8 yards out.

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by WAZZOCK » 22 Nov 2017 12:38

LWJ wrote:
Stranded wrote:Questions of a foul for their 2nd as Gunter was on the deck but no footage to confirm if it was.

It looked like one too me, the players reactions certainly suggested it was as well.

The referee was very poor, let Bolton time waste and kick the ball away on a number of occasions really needed to take control of the game from early on.

The positive for me is that we always looked like scoring. Other posters are mentioning how bad we were in the first half but from memory I believe we created 3-4 good opportunities and had a goal disallowed during it? It was much like Wolves where we looked liked scoring freely, thankfully last night they didn't have Ruddy in goal to save them.

I'm disappointed that Blackett still gets given the chance to play, he costs us in nearly every game he plays in. I suggest we start a crowdfunder to get him released from his contract.


This post nails it

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Re: BFTG -Bolton

by LWJ » 22 Nov 2017 12:40

OLLIE KEARNS wrote:I appreciate your forgiveness :-) Just for the record and per many previous posts, I don't dislike him, I just consider him to be very average with his passive defending being his biggest weakness. He has his strengths as well. You'd never see him not track a run as Illori did on Saturday for example.
To my original question though, how many times have you seen this happen to other teams ? Is that because other teams don't have players that push defenders ? Or is it because Gunter is a very weak defender ? If he'd had hold off Pratley (as all other sides do) then either they'd have both gone over or just got into a stand up wrestling much. Either way, there wouldn't have been a free header from 8 yards out.

I think you do see it more often than you are suggesting, but most the time it would be blown up as foul and would be something you don't particularly remember.

It was a full on two handed push as they were running towards the flight of the ball. If Gunter had hold of the player we would all be lamenting him for giving away a penalty.

Interestingly the referee blew up for a tiny push on the next corner, which looked like nothing. Guilty conscience?

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