Gourlay out.

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Hound
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Re: Gourlay out.

by Hound » 11 Jan 2018 12:57

And to an extent I think that’s true

The problem is having so many average squad players on the high wage

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Gourlay out.

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Jan 2018 13:11

Yeah, obviously if you pay a mediocre player top wages, it doesn't make them a top player.

I think the problem is we've not made any concerted effort to reduce the wage bill on relegation this time. Unlike after we went down with Coppell. We've consistently said we're going to sustain our spending, which with the arrival of the Thai's and Chinese has been possible, but in the end, foolish.

The likes of Pogrebnyak, Guthrie, Williams, McCleary, Gunter, Carrico etc, will all have been signed on big money. Gunter's probably taken a couple of significant pay cuts, probably McCleary too, but I'm not even confident Anton would have been smart enough to make sure there were proper relegation wage cut clauses. And since then we've still signed the likes of Vydra, Drenthe, John, Sa, Moore, Barrow, McShane, Ilori, Blackett, Bacuna, Aluko... none of whom are likely to have been average Championship wages, or accepted being paid £5k - £10k a week less than our top earner.


The huge turnover in players in the last 2-3 years really hasn't helped either... we've ended up with limited chances for Academy players, and plenty of probable high wage earners not even getting in the match day squad.

Did we really need Dave Edwards when we had Evans and Van den Berg? Pelle Clement when we had Swift, Kelly and Barrett. Sone Aluko when we had McCleary, and Popa. Ilori when we had McShane, Moore, Blackett, Dickie and Hyam? Harriott when we had Fosu and Beerens. And yet we've been short at full back and striker for two years. Etc, etc.

How many of our apparent first team signings over the last 2 - 3 years have failed to get 10 first team starts in a season? Utterly wasted wages and signings.

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Maneki Neko
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Re: Gourlay out.

by Maneki Neko » 11 Jan 2018 13:50

Hound And to an extent I think that’s true

The problem is having so many average squad players on the high wage


agree on that

im just not sure if the research was flawed, or if its a chicken/egg situation....

there is correlation between success and high wages, because successful clubs have better players who therefore get paid higher wages, rather than
paying high wages will bring you success.

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Maneki Neko
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Re: Gourlay out.

by Maneki Neko » 11 Jan 2018 13:53

Snowflake Royal Yeah, obviously if you pay a mediocre player top wages, it doesn't make them a top player.

I think the problem is we've not made any concerted effort to reduce the wage bill on relegation this time. Unlike after we went down with Coppell. We've consistently said we're going to sustain our spending, which with the arrival of the Thai's and Chinese has been possible, but in the end, foolish.

The likes of Pogrebnyak, Guthrie, Williams, McCleary, Gunter, Carrico etc, will all have been signed on big money. Gunter's probably taken a couple of significant pay cuts, probably McCleary too, but I'm not even confident Anton would have been smart enough to make sure there were proper relegation wage cut clauses. And since then we've still signed the likes of Vydra, Drenthe, John, Sa, Moore, Barrow, McShane, Ilori, Blackett, Bacuna, Aluko... none of whom are likely to have been average Championship wages, or accepted being paid £5k - £10k a week less than our top earner.


The huge turnover in players in the last 2-3 years really hasn't helped either... we've ended up with limited chances for Academy players, and plenty of probable high wage earners not even getting in the match day squad.

Did we really need Dave Edwards when we had Evans and Van den Berg? Pelle Clement when we had Swift, Kelly and Barrett. Sone Aluko when we had McCleary, and Popa. Ilori when we had McShane, Moore, Blackett, Dickie and Hyam? Harriott when we had Fosu and Beerens. And yet we've been short at full back and striker for two years. Etc, etc.

How many of our apparent first team signings over the last 2 - 3 years have failed to get 10 first team starts in a season? Utterly wasted wages and signings.


really have to agree here.
the transfer policy has been an absolute mess.
if I was the Chinese id be looking at those responsible before I thought about sacking stam

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Longhorn1970 » 11 Jan 2018 14:09

Hound And to an extent I think that’s true

The problem is having so many average squad players on the high wage



What are they earning then ?


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Re: Gourlay out.

by Hound » 11 Jan 2018 14:18

Longhorn1970
Hound And to an extent I think that’s true

The problem is having so many average squad players on the high wage



What are they earning then ?


well obvs don't know individually. But the wage figures show our wages as a huge percentage of turnover which suggests the average wage at the club is high

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Longhorn1970 » 11 Jan 2018 14:26

Hound
Longhorn1970
Hound And to an extent I think that’s true

The problem is having so many average squad players on the high wage



What are they earning then ?


well obvs don't know individually. But the wage figures show our wages as a huge percentage of turnover which suggests the average wage at the club is high


if I were guesstimating I'd say iro £25-35k a week ? ..

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Hound » 11 Jan 2018 14:28

think Williams was on 40k wasn't he? Think that was the common assumption

guessing most of the experienced guys like McShane, Joey, Edwards etc would be in the 20k-25k mark. Complete guess though

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 11 Jan 2018 14:34

Hound
Longhorn1970
Hound And to an extent I think that’s true

The problem is having so many average squad players on the high wage



What are they earning then ?


well obvs don't know individually. But the wage figures show our wages as a huge percentage of turnover which suggests the average wage at the club is high


https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... ub-2015-16
Plagiarised from a fellow Nobber...


Longhorn1970
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Re: Gourlay out.

by Longhorn1970 » 11 Jan 2018 14:43

Tilehurstsouthbank
Hound
Longhorn1970

What are they earning then ?


well obvs don't know individually. But the wage figures show our wages as a huge percentage of turnover which suggests the average wage at the club is high


https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... ub-2015-16
Plagiarised from a fellow Nobber...


I'm no accountant but looks like we need to cut the wage bill by 20% just to break even ?

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 11 Jan 2018 15:04

Longhorn1970
Tilehurstsouthbank
Hound
well obvs don't know individually. But the wage figures show our wages as a huge percentage of turnover which suggests the average wage at the club is high


https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... ub-2015-16
Plagiarised from a fellow Nobber...


I'm no accountant but looks like we need to cut the wage bill by 20% just to break even ?


There's a lot more to it but getting the wages under 100% of turnover would be a good place to start...

Longhorn1970
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Re: Gourlay out.

by Longhorn1970 » 11 Jan 2018 18:28

Tilehurstsouthbank
Longhorn1970
Tilehurstsouthbank
https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... ub-2015-16
Plagiarised from a fellow Nobber...


I'm no accountant but looks like we need to cut the wage bill by 20% just to break even ?


There's a lot more to it but getting the wages under 100% of turnover would be a good place to start...


I guess, interesting how the club have borrowed £60m from a company also controlled by the owners !

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Millsy » 19 Nov 2018 21:34

2 world wars, 1 world cup Currently only 1-0 down against Brum. I'm delighted I'm working tonight and am not there, and even more delighted we're losing as it will be one further step towards change. Praying we don't equalise to paper over the cracks!

Stam out is a given, but from what I've heard, Gourlay is at the wrong club.

Heard his interview on BBCRB.

Are we going to sign a striker? ----> Waffling bullsh*t, basically saying we somehow blew/spent our big money already in the summer and are now bound by financial fair play rules, this is a long term project, we're in a transition phase, in it for the long haul, will have a look but basically "look at me I'm a clueless arrogant tw*t and am going to say anything OTHER than admit that we desperately need a striker".

Are we going to sign a left back? --> See above

Is Stam's job in question at all? --> Almost shocked and offended at the question. Are you really that clueless you fat f*ck?

EDIT - JUST LET IN THE SECOND GOAL. GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE GET RID OF THIS PAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even if we turn it around and get into Europe, I refuse to watch this style of 'football'.

Bye bye Stam, bye bye Tevreden, but most of all bye bye Gourlay.


Yet another "I told you so" to all the haters when I stick my neck out with an opinion. 8)

That interview response said it all.

It took the owners almost a year, but I'm delighted he has finally gone.

Onwards and upwards.

URZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


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tidus_mi2
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Re: Gourlay out.

by tidus_mi2 » 19 Nov 2018 22:38

2 world wars, 1 world cup
2 world wars, 1 world cup Currently only 1-0 down against Brum. I'm delighted I'm working tonight and am not there, and even more delighted we're losing as it will be one further step towards change. Praying we don't equalise to paper over the cracks!

Stam out is a given, but from what I've heard, Gourlay is at the wrong club.

Heard his interview on BBCRB.

Are we going to sign a striker? ----> Waffling bullsh*t, basically saying we somehow blew/spent our big money already in the summer and are now bound by financial fair play rules, this is a long term project, we're in a transition phase, in it for the long haul, will have a look but basically "look at me I'm a clueless arrogant tw*t and am going to say anything OTHER than admit that we desperately need a striker".

Are we going to sign a left back? --> See above

Is Stam's job in question at all? --> Almost shocked and offended at the question. Are you really that clueless you fat f*ck?

EDIT - JUST LET IN THE SECOND GOAL. GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE GET RID OF THIS PAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even if we turn it around and get into Europe, I refuse to watch this style of 'football'.

Bye bye Stam, bye bye Tevreden, but most of all bye bye Gourlay.


Yet another "I told you so" to all the haters when I stick my neck out with an opinion. 8)

That interview response said it all.

It took the owners almost a year, but I'm delighted he has finally gone.

Onwards and upwards.

URZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I still think you're a twat for celebrating our opponents beating us.

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Re: Gourlay out.

by Forbury Lion » 20 Nov 2018 08:55

Tilehurstsouthbank
Longhorn1970
Tilehurstsouthbank
https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... ub-2015-16
Plagiarised from a fellow Nobber...


I'm no accountant but looks like we need to cut the wage bill by 20% just to break even ?


There's a lot more to it but getting the wages under 100% of turnover would be a good place to start...
Probably worth looking to increase turnover as well, at least back up to the level of the prior year.

I imagine the wages would be a lot higher if we had to pay out win bonuses regularly, but then again regular wins would probably help increase turnover too.

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royalp-we
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Re: Gourlay out.

by royalp-we » 20 Nov 2018 10:46

Snowflake Royal Yeah, obviously if you pay a mediocre player top wages, it doesn't make them a top player.

I think the problem is we've not made any concerted effort to reduce the wage bill on relegation this time. Unlike after we went down with Coppell. We've consistently said we're going to sustain our spending, which with the arrival of the Thai's and Chinese has been possible, but in the end, foolish.

The likes of Pogrebnyak, Guthrie, Williams, McCleary, Gunter, Carrico etc, will all have been signed on big money. Gunter's probably taken a couple of significant pay cuts, probably McCleary too, but I'm not even confident Anton would have been smart enough to make sure there were proper relegation wage cut clauses. And since then we've still signed the likes of Vydra, Drenthe, John, Sa, Moore, Barrow, McShane, Ilori, Blackett, Bacuna, Aluko... none of whom are likely to have been average Championship wages, or accepted being paid £5k - £10k a week less than our top earner.


The huge turnover in players in the last 2-3 years really hasn't helped either... we've ended up with limited chances for Academy players, and plenty of probable high wage earners not even getting in the match day squad.

Did we really need Dave Edwards when we had Evans and Van den Berg? Pelle Clement when we had Swift, Kelly and Barrett. Sone Aluko when we had McCleary, and Popa. Ilori when we had McShane, Moore, Blackett, Dickie and Hyam? Harriott when we had Fosu and Beerens. And yet we've been short at full back and striker for two years. Etc, etc.

How many of our apparent first team signings over the last 2 - 3 years have failed to get 10 first team starts in a season? Utterly wasted wages and signings.



Good summary Ian. We really are a shambles with, most importantly, a lack of direction & identity.

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Re: Gourlay out.

by muirinho » 20 Nov 2018 11:51

royalp-we
Snowflake Royal Yeah, obviously if you pay a mediocre player top wages, it doesn't make them a top player.

I think the problem is we've not made any concerted effort to reduce the wage bill on relegation this time. Unlike after we went down with Coppell. We've consistently said we're going to sustain our spending, which with the arrival of the Thai's and Chinese has been possible, but in the end, foolish.

The likes of Pogrebnyak, Guthrie, Williams, McCleary, Gunter, Carrico etc, will all have been signed on big money. Gunter's probably taken a couple of significant pay cuts, probably McCleary too, but I'm not even confident Anton would have been smart enough to make sure there were proper relegation wage cut clauses. And since then we've still signed the likes of Vydra, Drenthe, John, Sa, Moore, Barrow, McShane, Ilori, Blackett, Bacuna, Aluko... none of whom are likely to have been average Championship wages, or accepted being paid £5k - £10k a week less than our top earner.


The huge turnover in players in the last 2-3 years really hasn't helped either... we've ended up with limited chances for Academy players, and plenty of probable high wage earners not even getting in the match day squad.

Did we really need Dave Edwards when we had Evans and Van den Berg? Pelle Clement when we had Swift, Kelly and Barrett. Sone Aluko when we had McCleary, and Popa. Ilori when we had McShane, Moore, Blackett, Dickie and Hyam? Harriott when we had Fosu and Beerens. And yet we've been short at full back and striker for two years. Etc, etc.

How many of our apparent first team signings over the last 2 - 3 years have failed to get 10 first team starts in a season? Utterly wasted wages and signings.



Good summary Ian. We really are a shambles with, most importantly, a lack of direction & identity.


Nevertheless, our wages for 2015/2016 (last year we have accounts for), are middle of the range for a Championship team. Given the cost of living down here in comparison with the likes of Middlesborough, in purchasing power we're probably towards the lower end.

They're all being paid too much in comparison to how they are achieving, and the transfer policy has been very shambolic, but I don't think it's fair to say that there has been no effort to cut costs, there clearly has.

I also think that one of the reasons Dutch players were so attractive initially is they probably asked for less money than players already in England.

The rush to quantity rather than quality has been dreadful, I wonder if that has been caused by having too many cooks (both managerial and DOF).

The real problem is, we can't actually attract better players than what we already have, at the moment. None of the players that came in recently are significantly better than who they were replacing or supplementing. No player we are *likely* to get in the near future will be significantly better than what we already have.

We need a manager who is good at working with what he has got, who has a clear strategy, where everybody knows their part.
We need a DOF who is good at moving players who are surplus to requirements on, and is good at persuading useful players to stay.

Right now, we have neither of those things. I like Clement, but I don't think he is a good manager.
A decent manager will get our middle-of-the-road players to middle-of-the-road levels - right now they are underachieving. A good manager might get them brushing play-off places. An exceptionally good, or a decent (but exceptionally lucky) manager might get them higher.

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Re: Gourlay out.

by John Smith » 20 Nov 2018 11:54

tidus_mi2
2 world wars, 1 world cup
2 world wars, 1 world cup Currently only 1-0 down against Brum. I'm delighted I'm working tonight and am not there, and even more delighted we're losing as it will be one further step towards change. Praying we don't equalise to paper over the cracks!

Stam out is a given, but from what I've heard, Gourlay is at the wrong club.

Heard his interview on BBCRB.

Are we going to sign a striker? ----> Waffling bullsh*t, basically saying we somehow blew/spent our big money already in the summer and are now bound by financial fair play rules, this is a long term project, we're in a transition phase, in it for the long haul, will have a look but basically "look at me I'm a clueless arrogant tw*t and am going to say anything OTHER than admit that we desperately need a striker".

Are we going to sign a left back? --> See above

Is Stam's job in question at all? --> Almost shocked and offended at the question. Are you really that clueless you fat f*ck?

EDIT - JUST LET IN THE SECOND GOAL. GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE GET RID OF THIS PAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even if we turn it around and get into Europe, I refuse to watch this style of 'football'.

Bye bye Stam, bye bye Tevreden, but most of all bye bye Gourlay.


Yet another "I told you so" to all the haters when I stick my neck out with an opinion. 8)

That interview response said it all.

It took the owners almost a year, but I'm delighted he has finally gone.

Onwards and upwards.

URZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I still think you're a twat for celebrating our opponents beating us.

+100

Anyone who does this is not a supporter of the club

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Re: Gourlay out.

by URZZZZ » 20 Nov 2018 14:32

John Smith
tidus_mi2
2 world wars, 1 world cup
Yet another "I told you so" to all the haters when I stick my neck out with an opinion. 8)

That interview response said it all.

It took the owners almost a year, but I'm delighted he has finally gone.

Onwards and upwards.

URZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I still think you're a twat for celebrating our opponents beating us.

+100

Anyone who does this is not a supporter of the club


Even though he publicly slated the fans after every defeat when the football on show was the worst seen in years, every defeat had the consolation he was one game closer to the sack. Watching Moore, Mcshane and Mannone passing between themselves for 60 minutes of each game is no ones cup of tea

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