Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

Pandoras Box
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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Pandoras Box » 05 Jan 2018 21:06

Nomad_Royal wrote:Apparently there was a comment on the radio during the Birmingham match ( i didn't hear it I was at the match) concerning the style of play being so slow that our fitness may be suffering. We aren't playing fast committed football for 90 minutes each week ( that part is certainly true) and as a consequence the players aren't really match fit. Certainly the way half the team collapsed to their knees when Burton scored their 2nd didnt speak to me of a team fit and ready to fight back.

No idea whether this is the case or not but suspect it is yet another possibility to add into the growing list of reasons we are crap. Oh and certainly no more unlikely than we are loosing because Stam is contracted to play this way.


Yes, Dellor brought this up quite a bit and it's quite inciteful really. What he was saying was that it is a well known fact that you cannot replicate the fitness required on the training ground versus matchday.
As we seem to walk the ball around the pitch and no one attacks with any speed they surely can't build up the fitness required that is normally gained on matchday.
So when you go behind, or need to make a concerted effort towards the end of a match, our guys don't have it in the tank for that final push. They're spent.

Seems like a decent viewpoint actually.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Denver Royal » 05 Jan 2018 21:07

2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:Where this *may* be slightly plausible is if say they chose Stam based on his philosophy.


I'd be surprised if it was actually written in to his contract, per se. That might be a stretch.

That said, I could see how clubs with PL ambitions have moved on from hoof ball merchants, and when hiring someone, are looking at not just prior results.

In our case, I could certainly see how Stam's intended style and system of play at Reading would have been discussed at some length during the interview phase.

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tmesis
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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by tmesis » 05 Jan 2018 22:13

Old Man Andrews wrote:
tmesis wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

Christ, not this crap again. Just because some thick ex-pro on Sky said it, doesn't make it true.

Dutch clubs fair badly in Europe because they don't have a massive tv deal, and their best players play abroad. It's got nothing to do with tactics.

The Netherlands has a population of just 17 million, a third of that of England, and consequently fortunes fluctuate a fair bit, especially when they don't possess any particularly gifted individuals to lift them above where a nation of their size probably ought to be.

The Dutch do not play "total football". They haven't for decades. The possession game and formations used in Holland, are pretty much exactly the same as the possession game and formations used across Continental Europe.


It has everything to do with tactics. I watch a hell of a lot of football and have seen it first hand from the Dutch sides. Their big 3 clubs all play exactly the same way as do their national side. Their failure as a nation stems from their inablilty/stubborness to adapt not because of TV deals. Kids are coached the "Dutch way" as soon as they can kick a ball and it is a way of playing that no longer works.

Keep up.

OK, so how exactly does the Dutch way differ tactically from the possession-based passing game based on a 4-3-3/4-5-1 favoured by most sides on the continent?

And you really don't believe that the comparative lack of money in the Dutch game, and their inability to keep any of their top players, isn't the major factor in their absence from the latter stages of the champions league? The fact that the champions league is dominated by the richest clubs is mere coincidence to you?

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by SCIAG » 06 Jan 2018 00:12

Barcelona are culturally "Dutch". Their style of play comes from Rinus Michels and Johan Cruyff. Guardiola took it to Bayern and won everything, now he's taken it to Man City and is probably going to win everything. The Spanish national team copied it and won three consecutive major titles. If anything, in recent years lack of resources had led to the major Dutch sides drifting away from a traditional Dutch style and towards a conservative, defensive outlook designed to counter possession-based football (see Netherlands 5-1 Spain 2014 for example, or Van Gaal's whole career).

There are many failings with our current side. The nationality and footballing culture of our manager is not one of them.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by royalp-we » 06 Jan 2018 00:21

tmesis wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:I would say it is more because they are Dutch and play an outdated style of football. If you look at the Dutch national side and their clubs performances or lack of in the Champions League you can see how far thay have fallen behind.

Christ, not this crap again. Just because some thick ex-pro on Sky said it, doesn't make it true.

Dutch clubs fair badly in Europe because they don't have a massive tv deal, and their best players play abroad. It's got nothing to do with tactics.

The Netherlands has a population of just 17 million, a third of that of England, and consequently fortunes fluctuate a fair bit, especially when they don't possess any particularly gifted individuals to lift them above where a nation of their size probably ought to be.

The Dutch do not play "total football". They haven't for decades. The possession game and formations used in Holland, are pretty much exactly the same as the possession game and formations used across Continental Europe.


A massive +1

Fans looking to blame the first foreign manager Reading FC has ever had.... Wake up and Look around guys.

Firstly, Ajax reached the Europa League (UEFA Cup) final in 2017 (last season) and narrowly lost to Man Utd.

Completely rubbishes your view on Dutch teams :lol:

We have no divine right to fight at the top of this league, plenty of teams in the past have spent more and Reading still managed to finish above them. Think about how much teams like Derby have put in to their promotion push year after year? Like £50m+ on the current and still can't make the jump.

We should at least try to stand by this club until we are actually at risk of dropping.


Have sone dignity and embrace the struggle, it's the 2nd time it's happened in nearly 20 years ffs


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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Bossbluff » 06 Jan 2018 01:30

Just read this in the Chronicle,

“Sometimes a team works hard and everything goes for you, then the next season it doesn’t work like it used to because the opposition knows you, it’s harder to win games.”

Does this not shout out in a loud voice, "TIME FOR A CHANGE OF TACTICS" just like our voices are doing right now??

:lol: :lol:

He does seem to contradict himself quite often..

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by paddy20 » 06 Jan 2018 09:39

Simple. Stop giving the ball to the centre halves. Give it to the wingers in our own half. They can use their pace to drive forward. As it it is we let the CH's take it to the halfway line by which time our forwards are compressed with little open space to run into. Remember how Kebe and Macanuff used to play.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Elm Park Kid » 06 Jan 2018 10:47

Yeah, I mean we should really play an attacking game where our full backs get down the pitch . . . . .. . oh but wait, we don't have a left back.

So we should play an attacking game where our midfielders push forward . .. . oh but wait, JVB is one of our midfielders and he has no discernible skill and Swift is another, who is completely out of form.

So we should aim to get the ball forward to our strikers quickly so they can make chances . . . oh but wait, our only proven striker is a 36 year old who has just come back from injury, overweight and also out of form.

Well lets get it to the wingers then and let them attack, Mo Barrow is good and Aluko cost £7.5m . . . .oh but wait, that would mean we'd need our full backs to cover for their attacking play, and we don't have a left back. Also the last time Aluko got into double figures with goals was 6 years ago in the Scottish League playing for Rangers.

Ok, so . . maybe we just really push to get set pieces and rely on our centre-backs? Oh . . but wait, Moore and McShane have a goal scoring average of about 1 a season, and McShane is 32 and not an ideal person to run up and down the pitch . . .and we don't have two proper full backs to cover them.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Hound » 06 Jan 2018 10:54

We have the players tbh. In the first 11 Some are out of form, some no longer good enough and some keep being picked regardless

Hopefully today will give a chance for the likes of Richards and Dadi to make a good claim to get back in the first 11


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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Stevie G » 06 Jan 2018 20:49

However bizarre the OP might sound, there is an element plausiblity. If so, then I agree, JS is showing his absolute tenacity and loyalty in taking the heat, and I can see why some in the club would get frustrated in the fans not understanding what the club are trying to achieve. And if so, then it's about transparency, the club should just be clearer on the strategy. Again, if so, you can see why JS repeats the line that he's cool with his position, and if the club think they can do better then that's up to them. It's hardly as if he was in a great bargaining positon given the step up he made in taking up the post, so maybe it was his ability to play a style, and that included him not having a full call on the player purchase, hence those selected and the lack of use of Dadi. I recall JMs early comments about Jaap's imposing strength of character so I can't see how he'd struggle with the dressing room. We'd better be hoping this is not all so.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by peterroyal76 » 06 Jan 2018 21:45

SCIAG wrote:Barcelona are culturally "Dutch". Their style of play comes from Rinus Michels and Johan Cruyff. Guardiola took it to Bayern and won everything, now he's taken it to Man City and is probably going to win everything. The Spanish national team copied it and won three consecutive major titles. If anything, in recent years lack of resources had led to the major Dutch sides drifting away from a traditional Dutch style and towards a conservative, defensive outlook designed to counter possession-based football (see Netherlands 5-1 Spain 2014 for example, or Van Gaal's whole career).

There are many failings with our current side. The nationality and footballing culture of our manager is not one of them.


The football culture of Jaap is not to blame, his insistence on us playing that way is to blame. Its not working as the players cannot carry out his instructions for one reason or another or he’s not getting his point across. He’s too stubborn to change it. Everyone can see it’s not the way for this squad. To be fair Adkins would have won the lot with that Bayern team.

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tmesis
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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by tmesis » 06 Jan 2018 22:24

Stevie G wrote:However bizarre the OP might sound, there is an element plausiblity.

No there isn't. It's plain stupid.

What manager would agree to take on a job where he doesn't have a say on the tactics the team plays?

Why would any group of owners demand their manager plays a tedious style of football?

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by AthleticoSpizz » 06 Jan 2018 22:29

£ and property?


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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Stevie G » 07 Jan 2018 00:31

AthleticoSpizz wrote:£ and property?


Glad you were also thinking a step ahead.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jan 2018 11:08

It'd be almost unmeasurable, unenforceable and utterly moronic given how things are going to force a manager to continue with something that isn't working against their will. And the owners have showed little interest in active involvement.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by tmesis » 07 Jan 2018 11:09

AthleticoSpizz wrote:£ and property?

And how much would they need to pay him to potentially trash his managerial career and reputation, given that he's a rich man already?

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by AthleticoSpizz » 07 Jan 2018 11:25

tmesis wrote:
AthleticoSpizz wrote:£ and property?

And how much would they need to pay him to potentially trash his managerial career and reputation, given that he's a rich man already?
not a clue, it was a question, not a statement (hence the ?).

However, so-far (as Ian says) we have owners with no interest in the football and more puzzling, a manager who seems to defy everything that is blatently obvious.

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by JIM » 07 Jan 2018 12:03

No points
No new players
No future in championship
Brilliant expectations in 2018
War with N, Korea
Riots over Brexit
Corbyn P,M.
Reading relegated
Ashes gone

ROLL ON 2019

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Gunny Fishcake » 07 Jan 2018 19:04

JIM wrote:No points
No new players
No future in championship
Brilliant expectations in 2018
War with N, Korea
Riots over Brexit
Corbyn P,M.
Reading relegated
Ashes gone

ROLL ON 2019


Any silly sod considering dry January, that doom and gloom outlook would turn any man or women to drink !

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Re: Could Stam be contracted to his current style of play?

by Forbury Lion » 08 Jan 2018 12:36

cp wrote:I can only think that perhaps some of the attributes that made him a great footballer, in particular a great defender, i.e. perseverance, tenacity, stubbornness, not willing to give up etc. are now acting against him and revealing a weakness in being inflexible.
not as catchy as tenacity, spirit and flair.

Maybe the solution is to appoint someone who doesn't have those qualities? - Any one in the current squad fancy being made player/manager?

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