Which was worse

[leon]

There would be a stack of managers who would come here no doubt about it

Is that why we have hired some dross in our time...because we were spoilt for choice ?

Tell me, why did we hired Stam then? Because, here's what we would have known:

Very young, first-time manager, foreign, never managed in this division, or even in this country, was bound to make a ton of rookie mistakes, both on the field and off it, would need to give him time to grow and learn and develop and adjust, and try to develop a network over here, gain an understanding of the manager's association over here, and so on, and so on. And yes, he was clearly going to be playing a different 'style' of footy over here, which would be a risk of fan acceptance, even if we were successful (like last season).

And so, in short, Colin Warnock he isn't/wasn't. (Although, Warnock said the other week he's still learning too, but I digress).

So, if as you say, with a 'stack of managers to choose from', why did we go with Stam, what was the thinking, and what might we learn from it going forward?

I was with you until “learn and develop and adjust”

Absolutely the 3 things he hasn’t done. Absolutely the 3 things a young manager, fcuk it, ANY manager in ANY field has to do.

That’s why we’re fcuked off with Stam.

If he’d tried different stuff to change things, if he’d said yeah that didn’t work we were trying to do this etc even if he’d said please bear with me im trying to do x, y and/or z then fair fcuks. He’s at least honest and doing his best.

But no, if the fans don’t like the football they can fcuk off. Stop booing we only lost to Burton at home. What’s wrong with the football we’re playing. It’s absolutely fine? Etc etc etc

[Denver Royal]

Leon, you missed my point, I think. I wasn't asking for another rant about Burton, or why he should feck off. Try answering my questions in my last paragraph. Thanks.

[leon]

Leon, you missed my point, I think. I wasn't asking for another rant about Burton, or why he should feck off. Try answering my questions in my last paragraph. Thanks.

Sorry for not responding immediately in the manner you required.

I believe tmesis (sic) spelt it out maybe this thread or elsewhere, perfectly.

There’s plenty of talent out there. We really don’t have a complete understanding of what that looks like.

Football industry people know who’s up and coming, a safe pair of hands, hot property etc.

The likely lads are Dean Smith, Warburton, Cook. That’s just off the top of my head.

[leon]

....and I was responding to the substance of your post ie the content.

If you don’t want people to respond don’t bother writing it,

[Denver Royal]

Leon, I understand you don't like him. And you don't like the footy, either. And some didn't like it last season. I get that. I typically hear people the first time they say it. Yet it doesn't stop some people repeating the same thing a thousand times. No matter what the topic or thread, they want it back to 'Stam out'. Its like they break out in a rash and feel insecure if it deviates from a 'Stam out' rant. Ok, heard you the first time, got it. Anything else in your vocabulary I might learn something from?

So I'm like, ok. Let's change the broken record, just for a moment. So, how did we get here and why? I'm not talking so much about the subsequent outcome here. I'm saying given his resume, you wouldn't have hired Stam? Or you disagreed with his resume at the outset as I outlined it? Or you can see why ReadingFC hired him, but you disagreed with it? It was altogether too risky? Or maybe you actually wanted him? Tell me.

(For the record, at the outset, if you had told me that someone with that limited a resume would take us in two seasons, to a playoff final loss at Wembley on pens, in a Champ that might be the toughest ever, and then a mid table position next season, I'd have taken it. With his resume? In a heartbeat. Ah, but its that 'style' thingy again...

[leon]

I'm not talking so much about the subsequent outcome. I'm saying given his resume, you wouldn't have hired Stam? Or you disagreed with his resume as I outlined it? Or you can see why ReadingFC hired him, but you disagreed with it? Or maybe you actually wanted him? Tell me.

I completely understand why we recruited him. A great player ( a really good player, intelligent, excellent pedigree)! He’d had coaching experience at Ajax, spent time playing for some of the best managers in the world.

So basically, in a similar ish vein , like Mark McGhee all those years ago.

Stop laughing at the back.

My problem as stated, is he’s not learning anything and he seems to be trying at the same time to alienate the fans. As I said, if you’re still learning - learn. He’s not.

I think I’ve been fairly clear over the last few weeks I didn’t want him sacked but really the football is unutterably shit. And I’ve seen some shit football at Reading.

Oh I don’t know, being a Reading fan is appalling at the moment.

[Denver Royal]

I'm not talking so much about the subsequent outcome. I'm saying given his resume, you wouldn't have hired Stam? Or you disagreed with his resume as I outlined it? Or you can see why ReadingFC hired him, but you disagreed with it? Or maybe you actually wanted him? Tell me.

I completely understand why we recruited him. A great player ( a really good player, intelligent, excellent pedigree)! He’d had coaching experience at Ajax, spent time playing for some of the best managers in the world.

So basically, in a similar ish vein , like Mark McGhee all those years ago.

Stop laughing at the back.

My problem as stated, is he’s not learning anything and he seems to be trying at the same time to alienate the fans. As I said, if you’re still learning - learn. He’s not.

I think I’ve been fairly clear over the last few weeks I didn’t want him sacked but really the football is unutterably shit. And I’ve seen some shit football at Reading.

Oh I don’t know, being a Reading fan is appalling at the moment.

Yeah, some good points there. But a part of me hopes we didn't place too much emphasis on him being a great player. Not many of those have made great managers. Maybe a few.

[under the tin]

I agree with those that say this is the most boring - last season when he implemented the system it was fine (with the unexpected but ultimately very disappointing finale) because we thought it would evolve from "pass and watch" to "pass and move". and passing for passing's sake is pointless especially with some of the worst passers having so much of the ball.
Unfortunately the "move" bit just hasn't happened.

The rubbish in the past was rubbish produced by journeymen lower division players-the rubbish now is produced by international players and for that reason is unforgivable as well as being sterile with no end product.

If Stam wants to play a passing game then he and his players should study the sides that work so hard to make space and move the ball at pace.
This side is lazy with players happy to pass on responsibility to somebody else and then just stand and watch that player or point.
The side lacks drive ( as well as concentration) with everybody expecting somebody else to take responsibility which leads to so little creativity in midfield and slow and dangerous play at the back.

Stam probably has this season left as long as we don't get dragged into the bottom 3 - the natives are restless but mainly non-reactive because of being bored to tears and Stam is a very lucky man that he is not managing a side in any of the hotbeds of football as the whispers that come from our very subdued supporters would be 10 or 20 times louder and he would be receiving much more in terms of personal abuse.

+1. Couldn't agree more with that.