The reason we're stuck with Stam

BKnumber6
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The reason we're stuck with Stam

by BKnumber6 » 05 Feb 2018 13:03

Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.

I've thought about this a lot since last year when our form really started to dip and it looked like we had given up. Stam really should have been shown the door In December but here we are in February with two more loan signings and another gutless performance to go with all the others over the last 3 months. Stam is still here and I think he will still be here next season. I believe that he is on huge money and it will cost the club big time to sack him before his contract runs out. I think the new owners are in this as a business proposition only and are probably willing to take a chance that Stam gets us out of this or cut their losses and take a drop down to League 1. If we do go down I think the financial losses would be less that if they had to pay Stam off. The value of the club will drop but with the players we have I think they are banking on a swift return to the Championship and then build again. I really can't see him being sacked.

Thoughts?

Theroyalbox
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Theroyalbox » 05 Feb 2018 16:04

BKnumber6 wrote:
swift return to the Championship
Thoughts?


hes injured.

Hound
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Hound » 05 Feb 2018 16:07

Theroyalbox wrote:
BKnumber6 wrote:
swift return to the Championship
Thoughts?


hes injured.


He’s always bloody injured. Big part of the problem

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Old Man Andrews
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Feb 2018 16:09

BKnumber6 wrote:Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.



Racist.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Snowflake Royal » 05 Feb 2018 16:23

Hound wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:
BKnumber6 wrote:
swift return to the Championship
Thoughts?


hes injured.


He’s always bloody injured. Big part of the problem


Meh, I think he's too often a passenger anyway.


Theroyalbox
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Theroyalbox » 05 Feb 2018 16:55

Snowflake Royal wrote:
Hound wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:
hes injured.


He’s always bloody injured. Big part of the problem


Meh, I think he's too often a passenger anyway.


Hes the only slight creativity we have in our team

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by andrew1957 » 05 Feb 2018 16:58

BKnumber6 wrote:Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.

I've thought about this a lot since last year when our form really started to dip and it looked like we had given up. Stam really should have been shown the door In December but here we are in February with two more loan signings and another gutless performance to go with all the others over the last 3 months. Stam is still here and I think he will still be here next season. I believe that he is on huge money and it will cost the club big time to sack him before his contract runs out. I think the new owners are in this as a business proposition only and are probably willing to take a chance that Stam gets us out of this or cut their losses and take a drop down to League 1. If we do go down I think the financial losses would be less that if they had to pay Stam off. The value of the club will drop but with the players we have I think they are banking on a swift return to the Championship and then build again. I really can't see him being sacked.

Thoughts?


You might be right but getting relegated on the basis of coming straight back up would be a dangerous strategy. I think many of the current squad would think they are too good for League 1 and would either want moves away or be demotivated and we could end up staying a lot longer than one year in the division. And the way Stam is going it would more likely be League 2 the season after than a return to the Championship!

Royalwaster
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Royalwaster » 05 Feb 2018 17:26

andrew1957 wrote:
BKnumber6 wrote:Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.

I've thought about this a lot since last year when our form really started to dip and it looked like we had given up. Stam really should have been shown the door In December but here we are in February with two more loan signings and another gutless performance to go with all the others over the last 3 months. Stam is still here and I think he will still be here next season. I believe that he is on huge money and it will cost the club big time to sack him before his contract runs out. I think the new owners are in this as a business proposition only and are probably willing to take a chance that Stam gets us out of this or cut their losses and take a drop down to League 1. If we do go down I think the financial losses would be less that if they had to pay Stam off. The value of the club will drop but with the players we have I think they are banking on a swift return to the Championship and then build again. I really can't see him being sacked.

Thoughts?


You might be right but getting relegated on the basis of coming straight back up would be a dangerous strategy. I think many of the current squad would think they are too good for League 1 and would either want moves away or be demotivated and we could end up staying a lot longer than one year in the division. And the way Stam is going it would more likely be League 2 the season after than a return to the Championship!


Totally agree - getting out of League 1 is harder than it sounds and it would cripple us financially ... !

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Elm Park Kid » 05 Feb 2018 17:34

You know, it's just a reality that most football fans are extremely fickle and the best thing that owners can do most of the time is ignore them. The sort of people who start crying about relegation when the club loses 3 games in a row but then sing about promotion when they win 3 games. Like the Arsenal fans who might as well just have half-and-half scarf of 'Wenger IN/Wenger OUT" to save themselves changing it ever other game.

Stam took a fairly mediocre squad last season and molded them into a team that could eek out results against almost all opposition. We achieved 3rd playing some fairly poor looking but effective football. We then over the summer lost our only striker, left back, our safe-as-houses goalkeeper and our main man in midfield. Surprise surprise we were then a bit sh*t.

Anyone that says Stam should have been fired in December is just going to want every manager fired at some point over a couple of seasons - the kind of thinking that made us fire McDermott both times. Now you could arguably make a case that it's time for him to go as the club is in awful form, mentality and slipping close to the relegation zone; but you could also make the argument that as long long as Stam keeps us above the fray it's worthwhile keeping him and seeing how we get on next season. Whether we finish 10th or 20th isn't really that important. Personally I would prefer a different style of play but then I'd also prefer a decent striker/attacking midfielder/left back etc etc

There's only three ways of getting a decent, attacking team in this division that doesn't get ripped apart on the counter attack. 1 - Spend £50m+, 2 - Get lucky with youth players 3 - Get lucky with bargain buys. If you know a manager who can do 2 or 3 then let us know . . . . .


mumbo-jumbo
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by mumbo-jumbo » 05 Feb 2018 17:36

BKnumber6 wrote:Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.

I've thought about this a lot since last year when our form really started to dip and it looked like we had given up. Stam really should have been shown the door In December but here we are in February with two more loan signings and another gutless performance to go with all the others over the last 3 months. Stam is still here and I think he will still be here next season. I believe that he is on huge money and it will cost the club big time to sack him before his contract runs out. I think the new owners are in this as a business proposition only and are probably willing to take a chance that Stam gets us out of this or cut their losses and take a drop down to League 1. If we do go down I think the financial losses would be less that if they had to pay Stam off. The value of the club will drop but with the players we have I think they are banking on a swift return to the Championship and then build again. I really can't see him being sacked.

Thoughts?


How long does he have left? He was given a contract extension of two years in the summer, added to his previous contract which was for what, 2/3 years? We've nearly used up a year of that this season. Has he therefore got 2 years left to run or 3? You say he's on 'big money', but bearing in mind he's inexperienced and not Jose Mourinho, how much do Championship managers actually earn? Anybody know, apart from wild guesses? I don't think the owners actually have any interest in the footballing side of the club , though I don't know what their exact agenda is. I struggle to think of a single person who is available and affordable who might be able to make a difference at this late stage of the season. I think we will (just) survive this season, thanks to the equal ineptitude of those clubs below us. Possibly all change in the summer.

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by windermereROYAL » 05 Feb 2018 17:37

Well Wigan who finished 23rd with 42 points are running away with L1, Blackburn 22nd (51) are sitting 3rd, and Rotherham who were totally dogshit (23) are in 5th.
Not saying it will be easy but you would have to fancy us.

windermereROYAL
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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by windermereROYAL » 05 Feb 2018 17:40

mumbo-jumbo wrote:
BKnumber6 wrote:Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.

I've thought about this a lot since last year when our form really started to dip and it looked like we had given up. Stam really should have been shown the door In December but here we are in February with two more loan signings and another gutless performance to go with all the others over the last 3 months. Stam is still here and I think he will still be here next season. I believe that he is on huge money and it will cost the club big time to sack him before his contract runs out. I think the new owners are in this as a business proposition only and are probably willing to take a chance that Stam gets us out of this or cut their losses and take a drop down to League 1. If we do go down I think the financial losses would be less that if they had to pay Stam off. The value of the club will drop but with the players we have I think they are banking on a swift return to the Championship and then build again. I really can't see him being sacked.

Thoughts?


How long does he have left? He was given a contract extension of two years in the summer, added to his previous contract which was for what, 2/3 years? We've nearly used up a year of that this season. Has he therefore got 2 years left to run or 3? You say he's on 'big money', but bearing in mind he's inexperienced and not Jose Mourinho, how much do Championship managers actually earn? Anybody know, apart from wild guesses? I don't think the owners actually have any interest in the footballing side of the club , though I don't know what their exact agenda is. I struggle to think of a single person who is available and affordable who might be able to make a difference at this late stage of the season. I think we will (just) survive this season, thanks to the equal ineptitude of those clubs below us. Possibly all change in the summer.


I think I`m right in saying Stam has a contract till summer 2019.

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by andrew1957 » 05 Feb 2018 18:10

Elm Park Kid wrote:You know, it's just a reality that most football fans are extremely fickle and the best thing that owners can do most of the time is ignore them. The sort of people who start crying about relegation when the club loses 3 games in a row but then sing about promotion when they win 3 games. Like the Arsenal fans who might as well just have half-and-half scarf of 'Wenger IN/Wenger OUT" to save themselves changing it ever other game.

Stam took a fairly mediocre squad last season and molded them into a team that could eek out results against almost all opposition. We achieved 3rd playing some fairly poor looking but effective football. We then over the summer lost our only striker, left back, our safe-as-houses goalkeeper and our main man in midfield. Surprise surprise we were then a bit sh*t.

Anyone that says Stam should have been fired in December is just going to want every manager fired at some point over a couple of seasons - the kind of thinking that made us fire McDermott both times. Now you could arguably make a case that it's time for him to go as the club is in awful form, mentality and slipping close to the relegation zone; but you could also make the argument that as long long as Stam keeps us above the fray it's worthwhile keeping him and seeing how we get on next season. Whether we finish 10th or 20th isn't really that important. Personally I would prefer a different style of play but then I'd also prefer a decent striker/attacking midfielder/left back etc etc

There's only three ways of getting a decent, attacking team in this division that doesn't get ripped apart on the counter attack. 1 - Spend £50m+, 2 - Get lucky with youth players 3 - Get lucky with bargain buys. If you know a manager who can do 2 or 3 then let us know . . . . .


I would normally agree with you. In fact this is the first time in recent years that I have "wanted" a manager sacked. I thought that Brian was incredibly harshly done by on both occasions. I did not think we gave Rodgers long enough (and the passing style under him was superb compared with that under Stam). Adkins was not perhaps given long enough either. In Steve Clarke's case you could say that he signed his own P45 by speaking to Fulham.

But frankly the style of play was awful last season and even worse this one. It really is worse than watching paint dry which is why I won't attend games again until Stam is gone. I genuinely believe the players are trying their best by either they are not good enough to play how Stam wants them to or they have no faith ion the system. Either way the style is dire to watch irrespective of results. There have been odd bright spots such as Forest at home but these have been few and far between and so IMO we need change at the top. And I do believe there is still a genuine chance we will go down this season. It would be crazy to leave Stam in place until it is too late and then change manager with 6 games to go. It will be a lottery by then as to whether we can avoid the drop.


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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Victor Meldrew » 05 Feb 2018 18:27

windermereROYAL wrote:Well Wigan who finished 23rd with 42 points are running away with L1, Blackburn 22nd (51) are sitting 3rd, and Rotherham who were totally dogshit (23) are in 5th.
Not saying it will be easy but you would have to fancy us.


All three have changed the manager within the past year (Warne at Rotherham was upgraded from Caretaker) so is there a solution to our problem?

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by paddy20 » 05 Feb 2018 18:31

BKnumber6 wrote:Having seen the posts from the weekend about Stam going, they all seem to be linked to the fact that the warm down got cancelled on Sunday and from there on in it seems to be Chinese whispers.

I've thought about this a lot since last year when our form really started to dip and it looked like we had given up. Stam really should have been shown the door In December but here we are in February with two more loan signings and another gutless performance to go with all the others over the last 3 months. Stam is still here and I think he will still be here next season. I believe that he is on huge money and it will cost the club big time to sack him before his contract runs out. I think the new owners are in this as a business proposition only and are probably willing to take a chance that Stam gets us out of this or cut their losses and take a drop down to League 1. If we do go down I think the financial losses would be less that if they had to pay Stam off. The value of the club will drop but with the players we have I think they are banking on a swift return to the Championship and then build again. I really can't see him being sacked.

Thoughts?

\
iF they are thinking this way they are just simply idiots but you may be right in your thinking. We are more likely to get relegated again with our present set up. Can you imagine us playing out of defence on some of those Div 1 grounds??

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by strap » 05 Feb 2018 19:43

Elm Park Kid wrote:you could also make the argument that as long long as Stam keeps us above the fray it's worthwhile keeping him and seeing how we get on next season.


Sadly this is the worry - I doubt Stam has the where-with-all to actually keep us up. He has arrogantly stuck with his basic preferred system that the players simply cannot execute. Now whether that is down to a lack of skill or simply shot confidence is hard to tell, but last Saturday wasn't very pleasant. As many on here have said, we cannot see where our next point is coming from, let alone the 6 wins needed to get us to 51 points and be in with a chance of staying up.

We have 16 games left. We have currently won 8 of 30 and now realistically need 6 wins out of 16. We are playing the worst football of our season, and getting worse.

We are effectively banking on Burton, Sunderland and Hull having a worse last 16 games than us. Not really a fool-proof strategy is it?

Sorry if that sounds defeatist, but it is at least realistic.

Mind you, I can only agree with people who argue there is no-one available who could sensibly galvanise the squad for the remainder of the season. So it is a real dilemma. I am fully in the Stam out camp but admit I have no idea how to get out of the hole he has dug for us.

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by loyalroyal4life » 05 Feb 2018 20:08

Stam's possession style football would be a winner in League 1 :shock:

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by Ascotexgunner » 05 Feb 2018 20:41

loyalroyal4life wrote:Stam's possession style football would be a winner in League 1 :shock:


F*cking ell. We could drop down 2 divisions playing that dogsh+te. We found our level at Stevenage and Burton are punching 2 divisions above their weight.......and that's about where we are.

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by CountryRoyal » 05 Feb 2018 21:17

The biggest reason I want Stam gone is now because it will be the end of all the oxf*rd threads about him. Bored.

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Re: The reason we're stuck with Stam

by tmesis » 05 Feb 2018 22:24

strap wrote:We have 16 games left. We have currently won 8 of 30 and now realistically need 6 wins out of 16. We are playing the worst football of our season, and getting worse.


Only if we lost the other ten, and the teams below us all had great ends to the season.

I can't see us getting 18 points from the last 16 games, but with a 6 point lead currently, we shouldn't need that figure. I'm more worried about us only getting about 10 points from the remaining games. Then we would be in trouble.

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