Club announces new manager!

[Hound]

I'm not sure Cooper really struggled. He generally looked good until he made a Blackett like cock up. I wouldn't say there was a lot between them tbh

I don't think academy players should be seen as last resort either. The likes of Smith, Andresson, Rinomhota, Richards, Barrett and Watson could all be as good an option from the bench as we currently have.

I'm assuming for Cooper, when you say "generally looked good until he made a Blackett like cock up" - you do mean - on a regular basis. As opposed to just the once.

Blackett is potentially much better than Cooper, IMO. The problem is "potentially". If he doesn't sort out his concentration and application issues, then he'll be another on the "Whatever happened to" pile. But you can see in him why he was bought. It's just at the moment he's not producing what he should be capable of.

For the academy boys - maybe they are good enough, maybe they aren't. A lot of those you mentioned were in the team that got relegated from PL1 last year, remember. So I think it's fair to say that they're a work in progress. For all the "they can't do worse than the first team" nonsense you hear from some - if they can't beat fellow U23 teams, why would they be able to beat senior teams?

Also worth noting Rinomhota is only just coming back from injury, Andresson is currently injured, Richards is coming back from injury and Watson has been out for a year and is only slowly coming back. They certainly aren't an immediate go-to option right now.

yeah fair enough on the injuries - I meant generally though, not right at the moment. They are obviously not the complete answer, and I'm not saying just drop 6 U23s into the first 11, but at least these lads should be match fit, and playing regular competitive games. They should, and generally have when called upon, fitted in quite well and done ok. None of us were really calling for Richards to get time prior to Derby, yet he has been one of our better players when he has actually played.

I thought Cooper usually looked pretty sound. A different player to Blackett in obviously less versatile and a lot taller, but similar issues with his concentration. For all of Blackett's natural ability and physique, unless he is able to tune in all game, the likelihood is he will be playing at a lower level than Cooper for at least the next few years.

Haven't followed Cooper that closely at Millwall, but do wonder if the change of scene have sorted out his own concentration issues

[Victor Meldrew]

I would be really interested to know what the much talked about project is.
So far we haven't stepped up use of Academy players.
We have bought players who have gone through the youth processes at the bigger clubs, e.g.Ilori, Swift , Blackett, Moore,Evans and you could include Barrow at a push (is Swansea a bigger club?) so presumably these are types, like Harper and Sidwell, who came from similar backgrounds and as youngsters had enough potential to be taken on by Premier League clubs.
So far the jury is probably out on whether these have all been good signings.

Is this the masterplan?
To buy-in these types at some expense plus some more experienced pros at some expense and then hope that a few will come through from the Academy?.
If so, as I see it, the club is relying much more on the first two categories than the third and, probably because of poor recruitment, it is the more experienced category that is doing worst of all if we include Aluko who is no youngster and the most expensive.

With the success of Richards (albeit only minor so far) and to some extent Kelly (although Stam has messed around so much with playing him in so many positions and dropping him at will so that he appears to have gone backwards) I would have thought that Stam might have been a bit braver rather than turning to old pros in bringing in Edwards, , Martin and Elphick when we already have enough older pros in the squad.
The team surely needs a bit of youthful energy.

The previous poster mentioned about the young fringe players being injured-there do seem to be a hell of a lot of injuries throughout the squad-is it just bad luck or is there more to it?.

Over the next few days we will see whether Stam will be entrusted with the project, whatever that project is, and hopefully he or whoever is the new manager will work closely with this new Academy man to develop what most of us would like to see within a project, much more emphasis on bringing through our home-grown.

[muirinho]

The previous poster mentioned about the young fringe players being injured-there do seem to be a hell of a lot of injuries throughout the squad-is it just bad luck or is there more to it?.

you're not the only one. We've had an extraordinary run of injuries. I'm sure Harriott, for instance, would have played a bit if he hadn't been injured so much.

Ones like Obita are just unfortunate. But there's been a lot of hamstring injuries also. Swift seems to be our Jack Wilshere (without the broken leg).

Training methods?
Warmups?
Warmdowns?
Physios?

[Sutekh]

The previous poster mentioned about the young fringe players being injured-there do seem to be a hell of a lot of injuries throughout the squad-is it just bad luck or is there more to it?.

you're not the only one. We've had an extraordinary run of injuries. I'm sure Harriott, for instance, would have played a bit if he hadn't been injured so much.

Ones like Obita are just unfortunate. But there's been a lot of hamstring injuries also. Swift seems to be our Jack Wilshere (without the broken leg).

Training methods?
Warmups?
Warmdowns?
Physios?

I like the excuse the media keep putting up for Swift that his problems are all down to a lack of a pre season rest (just 2 weeks I think) owing to England duty

[Lower West]

Also worth noting Rinomhota is only just coming back from injury, Andresson is currently injured, Richards is coming back from injury and Watson has been out for a year and is only slowly coming back. They certainly aren't an immediate go-to option right now.

Barrett is gain good experience with Coventry currently.

[Lower West]

Because despite what a lot of people on here seem to think it's quite clear the owners do have a long term plan for the the playing side.

Fingers crossed that the Chinese are genuinely interested in the longer term future of the club. Not simply splurging their money away in the hope of promotion. Likewise they are on the same page as Stam. This a project. Which at the moment is going through a difficult time.

[3points]

Net cost is about £3m per year after subsidy payments from the FA for youth development.

I think our academy benefits from picking up London club rejects doesn’t it, so a lot of the “local” talent is actually not from the Berkshire area. The good ones end up at Chelsea, etc but then we pick up people like HRK, Richards,etc in return. That’s the problem that teams like Brentford and Huddersfield have, they can’t attract the talent in the first place as there are so many good academies nearby. Didn’t Huddersfield have only 1 first team graduate in something like 20 years (Jon Stead iirc) - on that basis our academy has been a standout success!

[Ascotexgunner]

B@stard!!!!!! Got my hopes up.

[From Despair To Where?]

We have bought players who have gone through the youth processes at the bigger clubs, e.g.Ilori, Swift , Blackett, Moore,Evans and you could include Barrow at a push (is Swansea a bigger club?)

I wouldn't include Barrow at all because he was 21 when he signed for Swansea after 4 years in Norway.

Liverpool signed Ilori from Sporting at 20 for about £7m. Far from being the result of a good youth setup, He was the result of someone being stupid enough to give Brendan Rodgers a blank chequebook.

We've got Obita and Kelly getting regular starts when fit along with Smith, Richards and Watson knocking on the door and recently signing long term deals. I don't know what sort of return people expect from the academy but that's not bad for the past 5 years. I dont think we should expect it to produce more 1 player a year for the first team.

[Stranded]

Regarding Academy success or not, wasn't there a chart recently that showed we had the 5th(?) most successful academy based on players currently playing in the top 2 divisions. Or is my mind making things up now?

[FiNeRaIn]

Also worth noting Rinomhota is only just coming back from injury, Andresson is currently injured, Richards is coming back from injury and Watson has been out for a year and is only slowly coming back. They certainly aren't an immediate go-to option right now.

Barrett is gain good experience with Coventry currently.

Coventry fans are complaining he’s a stone over weight and not match fit. Some say he’s got some talent the others say he’s shite. Don’t think we’ll be seeing him anytime soon.

[Hound]

always love the way fans can decide what the ideal weight of a professional footballer should be.

like the club don't have any fitness coaches, personal trainers etc. But fans viewing from 50 metres away can make that judgement through his football shirt etc

I very much doubt he is overweight, just lacking in match fitness. Which being as these are his first real pro games, and he has been ill for a while, isnt a huge surprise

[From Despair To Where?]

At the end of the day, the academy is a gamble. The best players at 17 aren't necessarily going to be the best players at 21 so there are no guarantees but, the academy is one area where I think we are generally doing things right.

[From Despair To Where?]

always love the way fans can decide what the ideal weight of a professional footballer should be.

like the club don't have any fitness coaches, personal trainers etc. But fans viewing from 50 metres away can make that judgement through his football shirt etc

I very much doubt he is overweight, just lacking in match fitness. Which being as these are his first real pro games, and he has been ill for a while, isnt a huge surprise

Jan Molby was overweight. I'm sure he'd trade all his medals for a lower BMI.

[Vision]

We have bought players who have gone through the youth processes at the bigger clubs, e.g.Ilori, Swift , Blackett, Moore,Evans and you could include Barrow at a push (is Swansea a bigger club?)

I wouldn't include Barrow at all because he was 21 when he signed for Swansea after 4 years in Norway.

Liverpool signed Ilori from Sporting at 20 for about £7m. Far from being the result of a good youth setup, He was the result of someone being stupid enough to give Brendan Rodgers a blank chequebook.

We've got Obita and Kelly getting regular starts when fit along with Smith, Richards and Watson knocking on the door and recently signing long term deals. I don't know what sort of return people expect from the academy but that's not bad for the past 5 years. I dont think we should expect it to produce more 1 player a year for the first team.

I'm not sure any of other the players BR quoted are relevant to the discussion either given that they all joined before the new owners took over.

I do agree with his general concern though about bringing in youngish players from outside in preference to blooding our own. We seem to be snapping up our younger talents earlier to contracts though in recent times so as far as the owners, via Gourlay, are concerned that definitely appears to be the long term ideal. It's just that last years near miss threw everything off kilter really and they thought they'd give it a real go just at the time when the Championship market place jumped to a crazy level.

I suspect Stam is getting the benefit of the doubt because of last season's turnaround obviously but also because the owners like the idea of having someone of his standing and reputation within the game here.

Gourlay and now Roddy both have great reputations within their respective fields so it does suggest the club is a bit more than just a car park to them. They inherited BT so I'm not sure what their feelings are towards him but personally I think he's on just as shaky ground as Stam

[Hound]

Its difficult to know quite where BT quite fits into the scheme of things. Gourlay is becoming more of the mouthpiece for the club, but BT still seems to have a big say in transfers

When the club talk about its footballing policy, I'm not really sure where this is coming from. Likewise, its not really clear who identifies the transfer targets and makes them happen.

I think the fact BT has managed to get in Moore and Swift probably worked strongly in his favour last year. Obvs this year's business has been far less successful overall. - but again he could argue he has got in decent players (on paper) but they have been mis-used by Stam

[Vision]

Its difficult to know quite where BT quite fits into the scheme of things. Gourlay is becoming more of the mouthpiece for the club, but BT still seems to have a big say in transfers

When the club talk about its footballing policy, I'm not really sure where this is coming from. Likewise, its not really clear who identifies the transfer targets and makes them happen.

I think the fact BT has managed to get in Moore and Swift probably worked strongly in his favour last year. Obvs this year's business has been far less successful overall. - but again he could argue he has got in decent players (on paper) but they have been mis-used by Stam

That's probably fair actually. My concern though isn't players we've brought in domestically as much as the foreign market. Like it or not there's talent and VFM to be had in casting our net further afield yet our transfer record in that market has been nothing short of abysmal. It was that way before BT tbf but it's still an area where we continue to fall behind others at championship level.

[maffff]

Richards to get time prior to Derby, yet he has been one of our better players when he has actually played

Great example of how youth players develop at different rates too. A year before Derby be couldn't buy his way into a youth starting XI then came from nowhere - but even more importantly it was recognised by the club (and the other LB, Scheving, left shortly after he stepped up).

Mentality is also huge at that age - confidence and maturity. I recall being told one of our more exciting young players really needs to grow up before he starts getting towards the first team. Contrast that with a Sessegnon, easy to forget they are mostly still kids.

[Hound]

Its difficult to know quite where BT quite fits into the scheme of things. Gourlay is becoming more of the mouthpiece for the club, but BT still seems to have a big say in transfers

When the club talk about its footballing policy, I'm not really sure where this is coming from. Likewise, its not really clear who identifies the transfer targets and makes them happen.

I think the fact BT has managed to get in Moore and Swift probably worked strongly in his favour last year. Obvs this year's business has been far less successful overall. - but again he could argue he has got in decent players (on paper) but they have been mis-used by Stam

That's probably fair actually. My concern though isn't players we've brought in domestically as much as the foreign market. Like it or not there's talent and VFM to be had in casting our net further afield yet our transfer record in that market has been nothing short of abysmal. It was that way before BT tbf but it's still an area where we continue to fall behind others at championship level.

And strangely, the couple of players we have brought in (not including Mendes who has been injured throughout) Meite and Popa, who looked to have good pedigree, just haven't really clicked here.

Be interesting to see what happens with Meite next year. After a slow start, he seems to have done quite well at Sochaux. Noticed he played against a full strength PSG in the cup last night. Looked to have a decent level of ability, wonder if he is in the clubs long term plans.

[Victor Meldrew]

We have bought players who have gone through the youth processes at the bigger clubs, e.g.Ilori, Swift , Blackett, Moore,Evans and you could include Barrow at a push (is Swansea a bigger club?)

I wouldn't include Barrow at all because he was 21 when he signed for Swansea after 4 years in Norway.

Liverpool signed Ilori from Sporting at 20 for about £7m. Far from being the result of a good youth setup, He was the result of someone being stupid enough to give Brendan Rodgers a blank chequebook.

We've got Obita and Kelly getting regular starts when fit along with Smith, Richards and Watson knocking on the door and recently signing long term deals. I don't know what sort of return people expect from the academy but that's not bad for the past 5 years. I dont think we should expect it to produce more 1 player a year for the first team.

That's very good spin suggesting that the 3 knocking on the door means one making it to first team level every year over a 5 year period.when Smith and Watson still have much to prove.
Also you have been pedantic over Ilori and Barrow especially with Ilori as Sporting Lisbon is a rather big club.

We clearly have different expectations of the Academy and I would be more than happy with one new regular first-teamer every season but 2 in 5 years IMHO is not good enough and hopefully the new guy will do better.