by JR » 06 Feb 2018 00:25
by From Despair To Where? » 06 Feb 2018 09:43
by Hound » 06 Feb 2018 09:45
by Vision » 06 Feb 2018 09:54
From Despair To Where? Thats what I don't get. The first team is an utter shambles and them we make an appointment that, on the face of it, suggests someone running club does actually have a semblance of a clue about what they're doing.
by Hound » 06 Feb 2018 10:06
VisionFrom Despair To Where? Thats what I don't get. The first team is an utter shambles and them we make an appointment that, on the face of it, suggests someone running club does actually have a semblance of a clue about what they're doing.
Because despite what a lot of people on here seem to think it's quite clear the owners do have a long term plan for the the playing side.
It may be that last season's near miss and Stam's own reputation/ambitions means we've been a little sidetracked in giving promotion a real go (in terms of last January and the summer transfer window) but the signs are clear that there is a long term focus from the very top even if they don't directly communicate with the fans themselves.
by From Despair To Where? » 06 Feb 2018 10:37
by bagman » 06 Feb 2018 12:19
by Victor Meldrew » 06 Feb 2018 12:31
From Despair To Where? Oh I agree and I don't buy in the slightest the suggestion that Tevreden/Gourlay/the owners don't know what they are doing.
I meant it more in the sense that the first team is the one that seems to be deviating from the strategy and it's the one area where we are struggling.
by TiagoIlori » 06 Feb 2018 13:37
Victor MeldrewFrom Despair To Where? Oh I agree and I don't buy in the slightest the suggestion that Tevreden/Gourlay/the owners don't know what they are doing.
I meant it more in the sense that the first team is the one that seems to be deviating from the strategy and it's the one area where we are struggling.
If the success of an Academy is judged on the number of graduates to a successful first team I would suggest that our Academy has failed.
Apparently it has taken a small fortune to set up and to run each year and yet ultimately what has been achieved?
I hope that the new bloke brings real success -it strikes me that the club is forever patting itself on the back (if an institution can in fact pat a back) but I don't see evidence of a successful academy when I look at our first team week-in week-out.
I desperately want us to produce home-grown talent but for all the plaudits I wonder if the Academy works and maybe the model should be just snapping up youngsters from other clubs much in the way that I believe Brentford operates every year.
Our first eleven on Saturday had no graduates from the Academy and lost miserably.
Perhaps the fault lies with successive managers who are just not brave enough to put faith in youth, a classic example being Richards not playing when fit (and very able) with Stam preferring to play a right-footed player ahead of a natural left-footer or, even more foolishly, sticking with a player he signed from poxy Man Utd (he must be good because he comes from there and Stam knows a natural defender when he sees one. ).
Good luck to the Academy manager (or is it the hyped title of director).
by Hound » 06 Feb 2018 13:38
by Victor Meldrew » 06 Feb 2018 14:00
TiagoIloriVictor MeldrewFrom Despair To Where? Oh I agree and I don't buy in the slightest the suggestion that Tevreden/Gourlay/the owners don't know what they are doing.
I meant it more in the sense that the first team is the one that seems to be deviating from the strategy and it's the one area where we are struggling.
If the success of an Academy is judged on the number of graduates to a successful first team I would suggest that our Academy has failed.
Apparently it has taken a small fortune to set up and to run each year and yet ultimately what has been achieved?
I hope that the new bloke brings real success -it strikes me that the club is forever patting itself on the back (if an institution can in fact pat a back) but I don't see evidence of a successful academy when I look at our first team week-in week-out.
I desperately want us to produce home-grown talent but for all the plaudits I wonder if the Academy works and maybe the model should be just snapping up youngsters from other clubs much in the way that I believe Brentford operates every year.
Our first eleven on Saturday had no graduates from the Academy and lost miserably.
Perhaps the fault lies with successive managers who are just not brave enough to put faith in youth, a classic example being Richards not playing when fit (and very able) with Stam preferring to play a right-footed player ahead of a natural left-footer or, even more foolishly, sticking with a player he signed from poxy Man Utd (he must be good because he comes from there and Stam knows a natural defender when he sees one. ).
Good luck to the Academy manager (or is it the hyped title of director).
We’ve raised like £28m in 7 years on youth players so that comment is utterly absurd. You need to be realistic here, you can’t expect a load of youth players to suddenly form the best championship team in history. How many times have we raised a youth prospect and he’s too good to be able to keep hold of? Sigurdsson, McCarthy, Long, Tshibola and Hector spring to mind, it doesn’t matter where they are now, they were all key players when they left us. For most of our recent history we’ve relied on clubs buying our players to keep afloat and we’ve managed to raise £28m in 7 years, that alone in my books means it’s been a massive success, had we not had the academy we would have gone into administration 4 years ago and there are some rumours that we avoided it at the early stages of last season, so don’t forget that
by Hound » 06 Feb 2018 14:04
by TiagoIlori » 06 Feb 2018 14:16
Victor MeldrewTiagoIloriVictor Meldrew
If the success of an Academy is judged on the number of graduates to a successful first team I would suggest that our Academy has failed.
Apparently it has taken a small fortune to set up and to run each year and yet ultimately what has been achieved?
I hope that the new bloke brings real success -it strikes me that the club is forever patting itself on the back (if an institution can in fact pat a back) but I don't see evidence of a successful academy when I look at our first team week-in week-out.
I desperately want us to produce home-grown talent but for all the plaudits I wonder if the Academy works and maybe the model should be just snapping up youngsters from other clubs much in the way that I believe Brentford operates every year.
Our first eleven on Saturday had no graduates from the Academy and lost miserably.
Perhaps the fault lies with successive managers who are just not brave enough to put faith in youth, a classic example being Richards not playing when fit (and very able) with Stam preferring to play a right-footed player ahead of a natural left-footer or, even more foolishly, sticking with a player he signed from poxy Man Utd (he must be good because he comes from there and Stam knows a natural defender when he sees one. ).
Good luck to the Academy manager (or is it the hyped title of director).
We’ve raised like £28m in 7 years on youth players so that comment is utterly absurd. You need to be realistic here, you can’t expect a load of youth players to suddenly form the best championship team in history. How many times have we raised a youth prospect and he’s too good to be able to keep hold of? Sigurdsson, McCarthy, Long, Tshibola and Hector spring to mind, it doesn’t matter where they are now, they were all key players when they left us. For most of our recent history we’ve relied on clubs buying our players to keep afloat and we’ve managed to raise £28m in 7 years, that alone in my books means it’s been a massive success, had we not had the academy we would have gone into administration 4 years ago and there are some rumours that we avoided it at the early stages of last season, so don’t forget that
Er..we may have raised that money but how much has it cost to create and run?.
Your assertion is the "utterly absurd" one in that you quote money going one way only.
Also your assumption is that without an Academy none of those players would have come here.
Wasn't Gylfi here more than 7 years ago as a 15 year-old youth player and of course Long came as a 17 year old as part of the Doyle transfer so would have come here whether or not we had an Academy?
As I said earlier, I would love to see more graduates make it to the first team but, compared to a lot of other clubs, it feels as though we are lagging behind in such a large catchment area, one in which I would hope we would attract the new Theo Walcotts etc. rather than seeing them end up elsewhere.
by TiagoIlori » 06 Feb 2018 14:21
Hound costs about £4m a year doesn't it? So about breaking even
Which is probably on balance a success, albeit a small one.
It has other positives though - the structure which allows a lot of kids to play in the teams associated to the academy would be one.
by Victor Meldrew » 06 Feb 2018 14:33
TiagoIloriVictor MeldrewTiagoIlori We’ve raised like £28m in 7 years on youth players so that comment is utterly absurd. You need to be realistic here, you can’t expect a load of youth players to suddenly form the best championship team in history. How many times have we raised a youth prospect and he’s too good to be able to keep hold of? Sigurdsson, McCarthy, Long, Tshibola and Hector spring to mind, it doesn’t matter where they are now, they were all key players when they left us. For most of our recent history we’ve relied on clubs buying our players to keep afloat and we’ve managed to raise £28m in 7 years, that alone in my books means it’s been a massive success, had we not had the academy we would have gone into administration 4 years ago and there are some rumours that we avoided it at the early stages of last season, so don’t forget that
Er..we may have raised that money but how much has it cost to create and run?.
Your assertion is the "utterly absurd" one in that you quote money going one way only.
Also your assumption is that without an Academy none of those players would have come here.
Wasn't Gylfi here more than 7 years ago as a 15 year-old youth player and of course Long came as a 17 year old as part of the Doyle transfer so would have come here whether or not we had an Academy?
As I said earlier, I would love to see more graduates make it to the first team but, compared to a lot of other clubs, it feels as though we are lagging behind in such a large catchment area, one in which I would hope we would attract the new Theo Walcotts etc. rather than seeing them end up elsewhere.
I’m very sure we’ve made a profit, you could also count Obita as saving a few million to bring it up to £30m so I highly doubt we’ve spent more than that, but of course unless the documents of how much it costed the club then we can’t say for sure. I was saying in terms of when they were sold, our youth facilities still played an important part in developing Sigurdsson and Long, there’s hardly any guarantee they’d be the same had they not had that luxury of youth facilities. You seemed to suggest that our youth facilities hasn’t benefited us at all, which isn’t true, especially considering our 11/12 squad had a load of former youth players that we still developed, and that alone surely means we’ve made a massive profit.
Re giving youth players more playtime whilst it’s frustrating it’s not being utilised to it’s full potential the club has tended to get it right with youth players, get a lot more right than wrong. Stam has given plenty of chances too, in the cup to impress, perhaps he thinks they’re not ready yet. We’ll have to trust him on that judgment
by Vision » 06 Feb 2018 14:55
Victor MeldrewTiagoIloriVictor Meldrew
Er..we may have raised that money but how much has it cost to create and run?.
Your assertion is the "utterly absurd" one in that you quote money going one way only.
Also your assumption is that without an Academy none of those players would have come here.
Wasn't Gylfi here more than 7 years ago as a 15 year-old youth player and of course Long came as a 17 year old as part of the Doyle transfer so would have come here whether or not we had an Academy?
As I said earlier, I would love to see more graduates make it to the first team but, compared to a lot of other clubs, it feels as though we are lagging behind in such a large catchment area, one in which I would hope we would attract the new Theo Walcotts etc. rather than seeing them end up elsewhere.
I’m very sure we’ve made a profit, you could also count Obita as saving a few million to bring it up to £30m so I highly doubt we’ve spent more than that, but of course unless the documents of how much it costed the club then we can’t say for sure. I was saying in terms of when they were sold, our youth facilities still played an important part in developing Sigurdsson and Long, there’s hardly any guarantee they’d be the same had they not had that luxury of youth facilities. You seemed to suggest that our youth facilities hasn’t benefited us at all, which isn’t true, especially considering our 11/12 squad had a load of former youth players that we still developed, and that alone surely means we’ve made a massive profit.
Re giving youth players more playtime whilst it’s frustrating it’s not being utilised to it’s full potential the club has tended to get it right with youth players, get a lot more right than wrong. Stam has given plenty of chances too, in the cup to impress, perhaps he thinks they’re not ready yet. We’ll have to trust him on that judgment
Maybe we won't have to trust him much longer.
As I said, your £27 or £30 million is a pointless figure as it isn't balanced against cost (which the club always told us was an enormous amount each year) and the 2011 squad will have had players that came through the normal youth system rather than that of a top Academy.
We have always produced young players - my main point is that in recent times there haven't been many and the club keeps on buying outsiders at great expense and of late not very successfully.
by TiagoIlori » 06 Feb 2018 14:58
Victor MeldrewTiagoIloriVictor Meldrew
Er..we may have raised that money but how much has it cost to create and run?.
Your assertion is the "utterly absurd" one in that you quote money going one way only.
Also your assumption is that without an Academy none of those players would have come here.
Wasn't Gylfi here more than 7 years ago as a 15 year-old youth player and of course Long came as a 17 year old as part of the Doyle transfer so would have come here whether or not we had an Academy?
As I said earlier, I would love to see more graduates make it to the first team but, compared to a lot of other clubs, it feels as though we are lagging behind in such a large catchment area, one in which I would hope we would attract the new Theo Walcotts etc. rather than seeing them end up elsewhere.
I’m very sure we’ve made a profit, you could also count Obita as saving a few million to bring it up to £30m so I highly doubt we’ve spent more than that, but of course unless the documents of how much it costed the club then we can’t say for sure. I was saying in terms of when they were sold, our youth facilities still played an important part in developing Sigurdsson and Long, there’s hardly any guarantee they’d be the same had they not had that luxury of youth facilities. You seemed to suggest that our youth facilities hasn’t benefited us at all, which isn’t true, especially considering our 11/12 squad had a load of former youth players that we still developed, and that alone surely means we’ve made a massive profit.
Re giving youth players more playtime whilst it’s frustrating it’s not being utilised to it’s full potential the club has tended to get it right with youth players, get a lot more right than wrong. Stam has given plenty of chances too, in the cup to impress, perhaps he thinks they’re not ready yet. We’ll have to trust him on that judgment
Maybe we won't have to trust him much longer.
As I said, your £27 or £30 million is a pointless figure as it isn't balanced against cost (which the club always told us was an enormous amount each year) and the 2011 squad will have had players that came through the normal youth system rather than that of a top Academy.
We have always produced young players - my main point is that in recent times there haven't been many and the club keeps on buying outsiders at great expense and of late not very successfully.
by Hound » 06 Feb 2018 15:06
by TiagoIlori » 06 Feb 2018 15:46
Hound I'm not sure Cooper really struggled. He generally looked good until he made a Blackett like cock up. I wouldn't say there was a lot between them tbh
I don't think academy players should be seen as last resort either. The likes of Smith, Andresson, Rinomhota, Richards, Barrett and Watson could all be as good an option from the bench as we currently have.
by muirinho » 06 Feb 2018 15:50
Hound I'm not sure Cooper really struggled. He generally looked good until he made a Blackett like cock up. I wouldn't say there was a lot between them tbh
I don't think academy players should be seen as last resort either. The likes of Smith, Andresson, Rinomhota, Richards, Barrett and Watson could all be as good an option from the bench as we currently have.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 246 guests