The only course of action now...

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Hound
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Re: The only course of action now...

by Hound » 11 Feb 2018 20:20

windermereROYAL wrote:
Hound wrote:If there was a single aspect to our play that had improved from last season, or even this season, I’d be happy to give him a chance to learn from his mistakes

We are worse in everything we do

If we lose against Forest I don’t think he has a single argument left tbh. I’d give him that game, and if we produce another pile of faeces and lose he has to go really


Repeating the same "he must go" after every defeat isnt going to achieve nothing. the owners and Gourley have the last say, so all the mouth foaming retoric on here week after week will have the sum total of zero effect.


I agree but hopefully my posts are a little better than mouth foaming rhetoric :)

Obvs Gourlay and co have the final say and nothing anyone says on here makes the slightest bit of difference, but where would be the fun if we didn’t all play at being boss?

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Re: The only course of action now...

by peterroyal76 » 11 Feb 2018 20:21

Denver Royal wrote:
strap wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:If you sack a manager every time they fail, you will never benefit from them learning from their mistakes.

Stam has shown quality last season and been poor this season. We're far from certain of relegation and he is likely learning a lot right now. Once the season ends and he can reset and take the chance to start fresh, things could easily be very different next year.

How about a little less doom-mongering and hand wringing and a little more positive attitude about staying up.

You could have three pitch invasions a game and everyone waving pants and placards and there's no guarantee the club would sack Stam. And I still think if the next result or two is poor he'll be sacked regardless of whatyou melts do - of course I could be wrong.

At the very least, could we not have a dozen new whiny threads calling for change / protests / conspiracies after every defeat? Try using one that exists. Or better still, don't whine about it on here. Do something at a game. And if you don't get support, stfu.


The football we were playing last year was little better than the dross we are seeing this. We made less stupid mistakes in our own half to be sure, and we had Kermorgant belatedly knocking in a few goals, but time and again in my conversations with wrinkly RFC supporters we to a man were saying how lucky we were and how on earth could a team playing this badly be so high up the league. I think the Play-off final was the true RFC of last season - bereft of ideas and scared to make a mistake. That has been the over-riding theme this season too.

Stam has been given plenty of time to turn things around, and all he does is blame the players, the previous management, the previous owners, the fans ... and never accepts that he is actually the major part of the problem with his arrogance and inability to adopt a Plan B when his beloved Plan A "non-football" fails yet again.


Sorry, but I've heard the exact same takes and lines and words in here over a hundred times now from different people. Do we need to hear it all again? Some originality in people's views would be welcome.

Btw, you don't finish 3rd in the Champ these days, and be in 3rd throughout much of the season, because you were lucky. You can have some luck in some games and its hip to marginalize the achievement now, but saying it was lucky is nonsense.


Hi Jaap!

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Denver Royal » 11 Feb 2018 20:27

peterroyal76 wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:
strap wrote:
The football we were playing last year was little better than the dross we are seeing this. We made less stupid mistakes in our own half to be sure, and we had Kermorgant belatedly knocking in a few goals, but time and again in my conversations with wrinkly RFC supporters we to a man were saying how lucky we were and how on earth could a team playing this badly be so high up the league. I think the Play-off final was the true RFC of last season - bereft of ideas and scared to make a mistake. That has been the over-riding theme this season too.

Stam has been given plenty of time to turn things around, and all he does is blame the players, the previous management, the previous owners, the fans ... and never accepts that he is actually the major part of the problem with his arrogance and inability to adopt a Plan B when his beloved Plan A "non-football" fails yet again.


Sorry, but I've heard the exact same takes and lines and words in here over a hundred times now from different people. Do we need to hear it all again? Some originality in people's views would be welcome.

Btw, you don't finish 3rd in the Champ these days, and be in 3rd throughout much of the season, because you were lucky. You can have some luck in some games and its hip to marginalize the achievement now, but saying it was lucky is nonsense.


Hi Jaap!


Hi, yeah that was original, too. What, you thought 3rd place was lucky, too? Ok, now go ask any manager in the Champ if you can finish in the Top 3 in the Champ by being lucky, and get back to us.

We are getting an awful lot of luck these days because I'm hearing we are lucky now not to be bottom, and if we stay up it will be by luck. Maybe we are just lucky all the time. :wink:

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Re: The only course of action now...

by leon » 11 Feb 2018 20:37

Denver Royal wrote:
peterroyal76 wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:
Sorry, but I've heard the exact same takes and lines and words in here over a hundred times now from different people. Do we need to hear it all again? Some originality in people's views would be welcome.

Btw, you don't finish 3rd in the Champ these days, and be in 3rd throughout much of the season, because you were lucky. You can have some luck in some games and its hip to marginalize the achievement now, but saying it was lucky is nonsense.


Hi Jaap!


Hi, yeah that was original, too. What, you thought 3rd place was lucky, too? Ok, now go ask any manager in the Champ if you can finish in the Top 3 in the Champ by being lucky, and get back to us.

We are getting an awful lot of luck these days because I'm hearing we are lucky now not to be bottom, and if we stay up it will be by luck. Maybe we are just lucky all the time. :wink:


And you don’t average one point per game by being unlucky.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Longhorn1970 » 11 Feb 2018 21:10

leon wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:
peterroyal76 wrote:
Hi Jaap!


Hi, yeah that was original, too. What, you thought 3rd place was lucky, too? Ok, now go ask any manager in the Champ if you can finish in the Top 3 in the Champ by being lucky, and get back to us.

We are getting an awful lot of luck these days because I'm hearing we are lucky now not to be bottom, and if we stay up it will be by luck. Maybe we are just lucky all the time. :wink:


And you don’t average one point per game by being unlucky.


+1


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Re: The only course of action now...

by double d » 11 Feb 2018 21:50

TiagoIlori wrote:Same meltdown every week. Every game now people say “last straw” or something


If you spent less time on here and more time at training and then trying to play football on a Saturday we might have a oxf*rd chance of winning something.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Nigelm1 » 11 Feb 2018 22:43

I am firmly in the Stam out camp, Enough was enough a very long time ago! If only Phil Parkinson could be tempted away from Bolton - that might get me back to going to matches again.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Snowball » 11 Feb 2018 23:46

Hound wrote:If there was a single aspect to our play that had improved from last season, or even this season, I’d be happy to give him a chance to learn from his mistakes

We are worse in everything we do



Hi Hound.

Mate, that is simply NOT TRUE.

Last year we got some pummellings like 7-1, 5-0.

This year we have not (in terms of actual goal-difference)


And we are not simply "worse" at everything. We have, briefly, occasionally, had beautiful moves
and scored great goals. Last year we seemed to win a lot of games we had "no right" to win.

This year we have lost games where we did pretty well for long periods. (eg Wolves)

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Snowball » 11 Feb 2018 23:48

Can I just remind people, that even if we were top-two,
going away to Boro and losing 2-1 is NOT terrible
and does not justify a melt-down.

They are a very decent side, four points off the play-offs,
spent shed-loads, have a very good manager and some
excellent players


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Re: The only course of action now...

by windermereROYAL » 11 Feb 2018 23:53

Snowball wrote:Can I just remind people, that even if we were top-two,
going away to Boro and losing 2-1 is NOT terrible
and does not justify a melt-down.

They are a very decent side, four points off the play-offs,
spent shed-loads, have a very good manager and some
excellent players


I dont believe it`s who we lose to . it`s just the fact we are not winning, the longer this run goes on social media will melddown more and more after each and every game we dont win be it a draw or defeat.
The only way to stop it is to win a few games.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Snowball » 11 Feb 2018 23:54

leon wrote:
And you don’t average one point per game by being unlucky.


I'd disagree with that.

You can have a few games where wins become draws, draws become one-goal defeats
(due to poor rub-of-the-green) then confidence drops, fans get on players' backs, managers
start making pointless changes...

Most years, except for 1-2 sides at the top and usually 1 hopeless case at the bottom,
there is not a great deal of difference between sides finishing 3-4-5-6 and sides around 18-19-20
and there IS a fairly huge element of luck > confidence

(I'm referring to the championship here)


PS I am not saying we are where we are because of bad luck.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Snowball » 11 Feb 2018 23:57

windermereROYAL wrote:
Snowball wrote:Can I just remind people, that even if we were top-two,
going away to Boro and losing 2-1 is NOT terrible
and does not justify a melt-down.

They are a very decent side, four points off the play-offs,
spent shed-loads, have a very good manager and some
excellent players


I dont believe it`s who we lose to . it`s just the fact we are not winning, the longer this run goes on social media will melddown more and more after each and every game we dont win be it a draw or defeat.
The only way to stop it is to win a few games.


Yes, of course. A win at Forest would feel like nine points ATM, we'd leap-frog them,
put them in REAL trouble, improve our odds hugely.

LOSE there, then lose v Derby, Sheffield Utd, Wolves (logically expected) and it would be almost "all over"

It seems crazy to me, but that could be a season-defining game

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Elm Park Kid » 12 Feb 2018 00:01

I'm really surprised we didn't announce his sacking today.


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leon
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Re: The only course of action now...

by leon » 12 Feb 2018 01:09

Snowball wrote:
leon wrote:
And you don’t average one point per game by being unlucky.


I'd disagree with that.

You can have a few games where wins become draws, draws become one-goal defeats
(due to poor rub-of-the-green) then confidence drops, fans get on players' backs, managers
start making pointless changes...

Most years, except for 1-2 sides at the top and usually 1 hopeless case at the bottom,
there is not a great deal of difference between sides finishing 3-4-5-6 and sides around 18-19-20
and there IS a fairly huge element of luck > confidence

(I'm referring to the championship here)


PS I am not saying we are where we are because of bad luck.


I get that but not over 31 games. You don’t get relegated because you’re unlucky. Not over a long period.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Denver Royal » 12 Feb 2018 01:38

leon wrote:
Snowball wrote:
leon wrote:
And you don’t average one point per game by being unlucky.


I'd disagree with that.

You can have a few games where wins become draws, draws become one-goal defeats
(due to poor rub-of-the-green) then confidence drops, fans get on players' backs, managers
start making pointless changes...

Most years, except for 1-2 sides at the top and usually 1 hopeless case at the bottom,
there is not a great deal of difference between sides finishing 3-4-5-6 and sides around 18-19-20
and there IS a fairly huge element of luck > confidence

(I'm referring to the championship here)


PS I am not saying we are where we are because of bad luck.


I get that but not over 31 games. You don’t get relegated because you’re unlucky. Not over a long period.


Yet, we were 'lucky' to be Top 3 last season? You subscribe to that, right? In the Champ right now?

Just for the record, where do you honestly think this club should finish consistently in the Champ? At this time, and at this level? I'm going to assign you some credit, and assume you are are a knowledgeable footy man.

Forget managers, just for one second. We were Top 3 last season, mostly all season, and lost on pens by one kick in the final.

Where should we be next season? This club, and this size, at this time. Your expectations are...what exactly? I'm not so much talking 'entertaining footy', I'm talking league position. Your answers on a postcard, please.

(Everyone has analysed this league currently, at some length, and the teams in it, and their moves, etc, right?)
Last edited by Denver Royal on 12 Feb 2018 02:08, edited 1 time in total.

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leon
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Re: The only course of action now...

by leon » 12 Feb 2018 01:45

Denver Royal wrote:
leon wrote:
Snowball wrote:
I'd disagree with that.

You can have a few games where wins become draws, draws become one-goal defeats
(due to poor rub-of-the-green) then confidence drops, fans get on players' backs, managers
start making pointless changes...

Most years, except for 1-2 sides at the top and usually 1 hopeless case at the bottom,
there is not a great deal of difference between sides finishing 3-4-5-6 and sides around 18-19-20
and there IS a fairly huge element of luck > confidence

(I'm referring to the championship here)


PS I am not saying we are where we are because of bad luck.


I get that but not over 31 games. You don’t get relegated because you’re unlucky. Not over a long period.


Yet, we were 'lucky' to be Top 3 last season?

Just for the record, where do you honestly think this club should be?


Wind your neck in son, I’ve never said we were lucky last season.

This squad absolutely should not be worrying about relegation. Top 10 pushing play offs. Possibly pushing automatic. Certainly there or thereabouts and certainly not where we are now. Disgraceful.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by leon » 12 Feb 2018 01:46

Unless of course you think we’ve always been relegation candidates?

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Re: The only course of action now...

by TiagoIlori » 12 Feb 2018 02:42

double d wrote:
TiagoIlori wrote:Same meltdown every week. Every game now people say “last straw” or something


If you spent less time on here and more time at training and then trying to play football on a Saturday we might have a oxf*rd chance of winning something.

:lol:

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Denver Royal » 12 Feb 2018 03:14

leon wrote:We should be Top 10 pushing play offs.


Well, we were last season. All season. In his rookie season. And we came from nowhere. Yet others are trying to marginalize it by saying we were lucky. (Heh, they are making my next point for me...)

'We should possibly be pushing automatic'?

Wow, really? Based on what exactly? Our history? If you are expecting that every season you will always be moaning. Look what other teams have spent and their budgets. Wolves and Villa are currently top 2, so start there. Check out what Boro have spent. Which manager out there will get us Top 3 in his first season here (even in his rookie season (Gilkes?)), and get us promoted? Whoever it is, we might be a bottom half team (again) so at least we will have a base line.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 12 Feb 2018 08:57, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: The only course of action now...

by Hound » 12 Feb 2018 08:09

Snowball wrote:
Hound wrote:If there was a single aspect to our play that had improved from last season, or even this season, I’d be happy to give him a chance to learn from his mistakes

We are worse in everything we do



Hi Hound.

Mate, that is simply NOT TRUE.

Last year we got some pummellings like 7-1, 5-0.

This year we have not (in terms of actual goal-difference)


And we are not simply "worse" at everything. We have, briefly, occasionally, had beautiful moves
and scored great goals. Last year we seemed to win a lot of games we had "no right" to win.

This year we have lost games where we did pretty well for long periods. (eg Wolves)


I’ll accept that we no longer seem to be getting thrashed, which puts the sum total of our improvement that we are now losing the odd game 2-0 rather than 5-0

We played good stuff at times last year in patches as well tbh. Games like Leeds at home, Barnsley away etc. I’m not accepting that one.

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