What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by windermereROYAL » 12 Feb 2018 12:46

Promoting Gilkes to first team coach, good player and nice guy, but top class coach he certainly is not.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by genome » 12 Feb 2018 12:49

Old Man Andrews wrote:
genome wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
Yep good shout, that was the time to do it. Possibly too late now, we just have to put up with it until summer.


I was thinking yesterday, if we do go down, I have the feeling that the Gourlay will still want to keep Stam, and see if he can turn it around in League One. Perish the thought, but I can really see that happening.


I would find it hard to believe the Stam or Gourlay have the bottle and stomach for League 1. We would have to literally press the reset button at the club and start from scratch with the youngsters and a manager who has experience of promotions in that league. Lets hope it doesn't come to that as we would be in financial ruin if we go down.


I imagine the first thing we'd do is cash in on Liam Moore at a much reduced price. Then try and thin out the wage bill. I do wonder who would end up staying.

While going down could be a springboard if we do well, there's always the risk of doing a Coventry or Leyton Orient and continue tumbling down. Not sure I could take ending up like Coventry tbh.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Old Man Andrews » 12 Feb 2018 12:52

genome wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
genome wrote:
I was thinking yesterday, if we do go down, I have the feeling that the Gourlay will still want to keep Stam, and see if he can turn it around in League One. Perish the thought, but I can really see that happening.


I would find it hard to believe the Stam or Gourlay have the bottle and stomach for League 1. We would have to literally press the reset button at the club and start from scratch with the youngsters and a manager who has experience of promotions in that league. Lets hope it doesn't come to that as we would be in financial ruin if we go down.


I imagine the first thing we'd do is cash in on Liam Moore at a much reduced price. Then try and thin out the wage bill. I do wonder who would end up staying.

While going down could be a springboard if we do well, there's always the risk of doing a Coventry or Leyton Orient and continue tumbling down. Not sure I could take ending up like Coventry tbh.


Moore, Swift, Kelly will all have their value cut by about half I would think should we go down. We would be in deep, deep sh*t financially, it is a scary thought. I see some people bang on about different away days etc but there is a serious risk of ending up like Coventry like you say.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Denver Royal » 12 Feb 2018 12:55

savage 4 england wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
savage 4 england wrote:Despite the problems with Stam, our squad is full of bang average players.


Who came third last season........ Can't be that average.

19th, 17th, 3rd, 18th...that's where we have been.


Yep, we're not exactly in uncharted waters right now.

I'd say conceding so many late goals this season has been a big mistake. Its cost us a lot of points and we could be top half or higher right now.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Hound » 12 Feb 2018 13:05

Old Man Andrews wrote:
genome wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
I would find it hard to believe the Stam or Gourlay have the bottle and stomach for League 1. We would have to literally press the reset button at the club and start from scratch with the youngsters and a manager who has experience of promotions in that league. Lets hope it doesn't come to that as we would be in financial ruin if we go down.


I imagine the first thing we'd do is cash in on Liam Moore at a much reduced price. Then try and thin out the wage bill. I do wonder who would end up staying.

While going down could be a springboard if we do well, there's always the risk of doing a Coventry or Leyton Orient and continue tumbling down. Not sure I could take ending up like Coventry tbh.


Moore, Swift, Kelly will all have their value cut by about half I would think should we go down. We would be in deep, deep sh*t financially, it is a scary thought. I see some people bang on about different away days etc but there is a serious risk of ending up like Coventry like you say.


I'm not saying you are wrong on the finances, but how much of a hit would going down be?

We'd lose some tv money undoubtedly, but we're not on often anyway. Crowds would prob go down, but maybe not by a huge amount if we had a good season (obvs a big if), though there are very few 'big' teams in that division. Though if Swindon and Oxford were in it would help.

Player values would certainly take a hit, but I'd assume we'd get rid of Swift, Aluko, Moore, Ilori, Mannone, Gunter, Barrow and maybe one or two others. The value of the squad would go down hugely, but we'd probably pull in a few quid from that lot. The wage bill would surely be massively slashed.


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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Stranded » 12 Feb 2018 13:10

jar95 wrote:Cardiff at home, felt like this could have been the moment we kicked on had we won.



This^

The panic that set in in that last 10mins which saw Cardiff get the draw is the biggest "mistake". Clearer heads to see it out take the point and confidence would have grown and we would be comfortable or even top 10 now. Confidence disappeared at the final whistle and hasn't returned.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Old Man Andrews » 12 Feb 2018 13:10

Hound wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
genome wrote:
I imagine the first thing we'd do is cash in on Liam Moore at a much reduced price. Then try and thin out the wage bill. I do wonder who would end up staying.

While going down could be a springboard if we do well, there's always the risk of doing a Coventry or Leyton Orient and continue tumbling down. Not sure I could take ending up like Coventry tbh.


Moore, Swift, Kelly will all have their value cut by about half I would think should we go down. We would be in deep, deep sh*t financially, it is a scary thought. I see some people bang on about different away days etc but there is a serious risk of ending up like Coventry like you say.


I'm not saying you are wrong on the finances, but how much of a hit would going down be?

We'd lose some tv money undoubtedly, but we're not on often anyway. Crowds would prob go down, but maybe not by a huge amount if we had a good season (obvs a big if), though there are very few 'big' teams in that division. Though if Swindon and Oxford were in it would help.

Player values would certainly take a hit, but I'd assume we'd get rid of Swift, Aluko, Moore, Ilori, Mannone, Gunter, Barrow and maybe one or two others. The value of the squad would go down hugely, but we'd probably pull in a few quid from that lot. The wage bill would surely be massively slashed.


Aren't we in relative deep sh*t now financially? I was basing the financial peril on what we have now in the Championship and can only see League 1 being a bigger hit on our income. Would relegation stop the training ground development etc? Who knows.

With player sales we are probably ok, you're right. Would need a quick return to the Championship though. I worry we would just get lost in League 1 limbo for many years to come if we didn't come up straight away.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Hound » 12 Feb 2018 13:16

Old Man Andrews wrote:
Hound wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
Moore, Swift, Kelly will all have their value cut by about half I would think should we go down. We would be in deep, deep sh*t financially, it is a scary thought. I see some people bang on about different away days etc but there is a serious risk of ending up like Coventry like you say.


I'm not saying you are wrong on the finances, but how much of a hit would going down be?

We'd lose some tv money undoubtedly, but we're not on often anyway. Crowds would prob go down, but maybe not by a huge amount if we had a good season (obvs a big if), though there are very few 'big' teams in that division. Though if Swindon and Oxford were in it would help.

Player values would certainly take a hit, but I'd assume we'd get rid of Swift, Aluko, Moore, Ilori, Mannone, Gunter, Barrow and maybe one or two others. The value of the squad would go down hugely, but we'd probably pull in a few quid from that lot. The wage bill would surely be massively slashed.


Aren't we in relative deep sh*t now financially? I was basing the financial peril on what we have now in the Championship and can only see League 1 being a bigger hit on our income. Would relegation stop the training ground development etc? Who knows.

With player sales we are probably ok, you're right. Would need a quick return to the Championship though. I worry we would just get lost in League 1 limbo for many years to come if we didn't come up straight away.


Its difficult to say as the finances are pretty guarded. We lose shit loads, but that is largely due to a ridiculous wage bill. Its difficult to know where the clubs finances end, and the owner's personal wealth starts.

I'd hope that the academy and new training ground would continue to happen. Would be a big shame if not

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Dickie's Spear » 12 Feb 2018 13:16

by savage 4 england » 12 Feb 2018 12:31
I think it mainly stems from a poor recruitment policy. We are buying players with bigger reputations, higher wages and "experience" from bigger leagues. We have gone against a policy that worked for many years of bringing in young players with potential from the lower leagues (and on far lower wages!).

This has benefited a number of teams with far smaller budgets than ours in this division. With the potential to sell on young players for now vastly obscene prices, and then re-investing the proceeds.

Yes, there is clearly problems with the brand of football and the manager. However, it always helps when you have better players and not necessarily ones with big undeserved reputations. Despite the problems with Stam, our squad is full of bang average players, which I remember pointing out in August.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hear Hear to this post. Remember we had a very decent scout that became our manager and was very badly done to by the club. He had no budget to work with as everything was frugal back then but we got some amazing players out of it. All money does is buy problems and egos. Do we actually have any decent scout working for us at the moment and if so what is he doing ?. Stam has basically wasted a shit load of money that previous managers would have died for.


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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Sanguine » 12 Feb 2018 14:12

Hound wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
genome wrote:
I imagine the first thing we'd do is cash in on Liam Moore at a much reduced price. Then try and thin out the wage bill. I do wonder who would end up staying.

While going down could be a springboard if we do well, there's always the risk of doing a Coventry or Leyton Orient and continue tumbling down. Not sure I could take ending up like Coventry tbh.


Moore, Swift, Kelly will all have their value cut by about half I would think should we go down. We would be in deep, deep sh*t financially, it is a scary thought. I see some people bang on about different away days etc but there is a serious risk of ending up like Coventry like you say.


I'm not saying you are wrong on the finances, but how much of a hit would going down be?

We'd lose some tv money undoubtedly, but we're not on often anyway. Crowds would prob go down, but maybe not by a huge amount if we had a good season (obvs a big if), though there are very few 'big' teams in that division. Though if Swindon and Oxford were in it would help.

Player values would certainly take a hit, but I'd assume we'd get rid of Swift, Aluko, Moore, Ilori, Mannone, Gunter, Barrow and maybe one or two others. The value of the squad would go down hugely, but we'd probably pull in a few quid from that lot. The wage bill would surely be massively slashed.


The biggest worry for me if we go down, is that I look at the squad and struggle to pick more than three senior players who would (want to) stay, or wouldn't get snapped up (Obita, Quinn and Kermorgant). Admittedly they aren't showing it, but the rest are, I think, Championship level players at worst.

And here's a sobering thought. Even if we win every one of our remaining 15 games, we'd still be 8 points short of last season's total.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Hound » 12 Feb 2018 14:22

Quinn's a goner - he is both knackered and out of contract.

I reckon, and this is obvs massively dependant on who is the manager, we'd keep: Jaakola, Watson, Richards, Obita, McShane, Joey, Kelly, Edwards, Bacuna, McCleary, Yann, Evans, Bodvarsson. Plus all the U23 lads who have signed on.

But if anyone offered for them, we'd prob let McCleary and Bod go as well.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Forbury Lion » 12 Feb 2018 14:26

Biggest mistake we made this season - Renewing our season tickets?

On the club side of things - Not signing a proven striker at the start of the season & blowing the budget on unnecessary midfielders. We all knew a striker was the priority, a goalkeeper became a close second after Al Habsi left and central defence needed a boost.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Elm Park Kid » 12 Feb 2018 14:30

The finances issue is really down to the owner's personal commitment to the club. Presumably they paid multiple millions for us last year so they're not just going to throw their hands up and let us slide into administration. You would assume they would fund at least one season of league one football to get us back up.

As for who would stay: There will be a few players who will probably be more interested in their salary then level of football - so assuming we don't have relegation clauses in the contract that automatically lower wages then they will stay at the club unless they can find similar levels of pay elsewhere. I think Aluko definitely falls under this category as he's going to have a job finding anyone willing to pay our wages after his season. SImilarly Blackett, Illori, JVB - basically anyone on high wages that has under-performed. We might want to get rid of them but it will be a Pog/Roberts situation.

Gunter will definitely go; as will Moore, Bacuna and probably Barrow and Mannone. Someone will gamble on McCleary - he's technically one of the best players in the league.


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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Hound » 12 Feb 2018 14:34

fair point on the wages. I suspect we'd happily offload Aluko but likelihood is no one would want to pay either much of a fee for him, or his wages.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Kingsley Junior » 12 Feb 2018 14:36

Elm Park Kid wrote:
Hound wrote:Obita got injured after the window ended didn't he? In hindsight we've really struggled at LB but if Obita had been fit it wouldn't have been an issue

I think the biggest mistake in hindsight was trusting that Yann would come back and hit the ground running and play as he did last year. So as an extension of that, buying Aluko instead of a CF. And as an extension of that, seemingly having a shopping list of CFs who weren't going to be released by their club

There are/were certainly players we could have got hold of who would have made a massive difference, esp early season when we looked pretty good, but just lacking a CF


Well he hasn't played for us this season. Maybe it was thought that he would come back quicker and suffered a further injury after August.

Still - given that Obita isn't actually a left back himself I would have just bit the bullet and bought one in. He's a fine Championship player but if we ever got promoted we'd have to buy one anyway.


Obita was injured late on against Hull, 23rd September. I suspect that would be why we didn't replace him before the deadline in August.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Coppells Lost Coat » 12 Feb 2018 15:22

Has to be, not getting the correct backroom staff surely. If its not working on the pitch , training is the only way to improve. It hasn't improved all season, therefore the training methods are not working.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by The Royal Forester » 12 Feb 2018 15:39

Hound wrote:
Old Man Andrews wrote:
genome wrote:
I imagine the first thing we'd do is cash in on Liam Moore at a much reduced price. Then try and thin out the wage bill. I do wonder who would end up staying.

While going down could be a springboard if we do well, there's always the risk of doing a Coventry or Leyton Orient and continue tumbling down. Not sure I could take ending up like Coventry tbh.


Moore, Swift, Kelly will all have their value cut by about half I would think should we go down. We would be in deep, deep sh*t financially, it is a scary thought. I see some people bang on about different away days etc but there is a serious risk of ending up like Coventry like you say.


I'm not saying you are wrong on the finances, but how much of a hit would going down be?

We'd lose some tv money undoubtedly, but we're not on often anyway. Crowds would prob go down, but maybe not by a huge amount if we had a good season (obvs a big if), though there are very few 'big' teams in that division. Though if Swindon and Oxford were in it would help.

Player values would certainly take a hit, but I'd assume we'd get rid of Swift, Aluko, Moore, Ilori, Mannone, Gunter, Barrow and maybe one or two others. The value of the squad would go down hugely, but we'd probably pull in a few quid from that lot. The wage bill would surely be massively slashed.

As well as the wage bill being massively slashed, the season ticket sales, the come or stay away, depending on who we are playing, fans will also be down. The knock-on effect of that means the catering side, the shop/shirt sales, programme sales and car park fees will be down as well.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by linkenholtroyal » 12 Feb 2018 17:11

Something unfortunately out of our hands......
Injuries losing Obita, Swift, Mccleary, Kermorgant early on and Evans, these were all players that I thought were going to be Key this year and have made this season what it has. It has meant that we don't have the competition for places or the quality we would have with them.

Also losing Williams and Al Habsi more Al Habsi out of the pair.
Williams may have not had the finest touch or the best end product but he always put a shift in and showing that commitment makes others do the same. We have missed him this Year.
Don't get me wrong I like Mannone and he is a good keeper but he is not a Leader like Al Habsi was he was always encouraging and giving instructions to the back for and he really did make a real difference and I really think he is the biggest miss this year.

I do think IF we stay in the Championship and IF we have a fit squad next Year, Sign Martin and Elphick permanently. Find a reserve Left Back and Mannone gains some respect of his defence we will be right up there again next season.

The key is staying up then keeping the squad. next year may well be a very good year. There is a long way yet though

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by alfie9 » 12 Feb 2018 17:21

We didn't replace our key players properly, almost all of whom left the club or suffered a long term injury. On top of that, we over-saturated the squad by spending on players we didn't need instead of promoting our own youth players. Genuinely think that the play style takes a backseat to the poor summer transfer window in terms of causing this mess.

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Re: What was the single biggest mistake we made this season?

by Denver Royal » 12 Feb 2018 17:30

linkenholtroyal wrote:Something unfortunately out of our hands......
Injuries losing Obita, Swift, Mccleary, Kermorgant early on and Evans, these were all players that I thought were going to be Key this year and have made this season what it has. It has meant that we don't have the competition for places or the quality we would have with them.

Also losing Williams and Al Habsi more Al Habsi out of the pair.
Williams may have not had the finest touch or the best end product but he always put a shift in and showing that commitment makes others do the same. We have missed him this Year.
Don't get me wrong I like Mannone and he is a good keeper but he is not a Leader like Al Habsi was he was always encouraging and giving instructions to the back for and he really did make a real difference and I really think he is the biggest miss this year.

I do think IF we stay in the Championship and IF we have a fit squad next Year, Sign Martin and Elphick permanently. Find a reserve Left Back and Mannone gains some respect of his defence we will be right up there again next season.

The key is staying up then keeping the squad. next year may well be a very good year. There is a long way yet though


Yeah, good post. Along with Yann, Bod was also injured about half the time between Aug thru Dec. Its hard to win without a striker. Would really love to know for sure which striker's we were in for (assuming we were, of course).

Williams isn't playing a lot at Hudd is he? Maybe we'll put in a cheeky bid in the Summer :wink:

And yes, assuming we stay up, its possible we could make a run next season, but the squad will need adjustments over the Summer. Some of the players right now are playing for their place in that.

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