BFTG - Preston -Home

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Lower West
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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Lower West » 08 Apr 2018 15:00

Whore Jackie wrote: The only error was bringing on Martin instead of Yann.


More likely that Martin wouldn't get sent off. :shock:

Yann isn't the most mobile of strikers either. Martin is a better creative player. Saw him play when he was at Swindon on loan under Di Canio's reign. Is a good finisher when the chances arise. Not a player to harass defences though.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by stealthpapes » 08 Apr 2018 15:05

leon wrote:
stealthpapes wrote:
Sutekh wrote:
Irritating I know, that’s why I always bring a selection of bottle tops with me.


You laugh but at Poland Ukraine back in Marseille in 2016, I got my bag searched and a random stray bottle top confiscated with so much palaver. Sigh.

Anyway, followed remotely. Rather looking forwards to Fulham (a) now. JMW - tempted at all?


I was there as well. Shit game wasn’t it?


Not the best, leon, not the best.

Was back in Marseille centre for Croatia Spain, which was great fun, and that game must have put Norn Iron through as five very pissed up Irish lads sang Will Griegg's on Fire for pretty much two hours non stop.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by leon » 08 Apr 2018 15:39

stealthpapes wrote:
leon wrote:
stealthpapes wrote:
You laugh but at Poland Ukraine back in Marseille in 2016, I got my bag searched and a random stray bottle top confiscated with so much palaver. Sigh.

Anyway, followed remotely. Rather looking forwards to Fulham (a) now. JMW - tempted at all?


I was there as well. Shit game wasn’t it?


Not the best, leon, not the best.

Was back in Marseille centre for Croatia Spain, which was great fun, and that game must have put Norn Iron through as five very pissed up Irish lads sang Will Griegg's on Fire for pretty much two hours non stop.


Same here. Watched it in a square with about 3 TVs

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by LightwaterRoyal » 08 Apr 2018 17:22

Whore Jackie wrote:Clement did well, though I was shocked at his lack of fitness in the last 5 or 10 mins, how on earth is he running out of steam after 35 minutes action.


To be fair he was putting a serious shift in. Chased every ball upfield, made every run off Bod and tracked Pearson back every time he went forward for Preston. Once Martin came on Clement he was winning flicks and having to chase them himself only for the ball to get launched back towards our box and Clement was sprinting back after it. That's the sort of passion / determination that will keep up.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Crowbar6753 » 08 Apr 2018 17:50

LightwaterRoyal wrote:
Whore Jackie wrote:Clement did well, though I was shocked at his lack of fitness in the last 5 or 10 mins, how on earth is he running out of steam after 35 minutes action.


To be fair he was putting a serious shift in. Chased every ball upfield, made every run off Bod and tracked Pearson back every time he went forward for Preston. Once Martin came on Clement he was winning flicks and having to chase them himself only for the ball to get launched back towards our box and Clement was sprinting back after it. That's the sort of passion / determination that will keep up.


Sometimes players are brought on with the instructions to run around for the last 35 mins and play your heart out and this really looked like one of those instances. I really think he could end up being a valuable player.


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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Lower West » 08 Apr 2018 18:29

Crowbar6753 wrote:
LightwaterRoyal wrote:
Whore Jackie wrote:Clement did well, though I was shocked at his lack of fitness in the last 5 or 10 mins, how on earth is he running out of steam after 35 minutes action.


To be fair he was putting a serious shift in. Chased every ball upfield, made every run off Bod and tracked Pearson back every time he went forward for Preston. Once Martin came on Clement he was winning flicks and having to chase them himself only for the ball to get launched back towards our box and Clement was sprinting back after it. That's the sort of passion / determination that will keep up.


Sometimes players are brought on with the instructions to run around for the last 35 mins and play your heart out and this really looked like one of those instances. I really think he could end up being a valuable player.


Certainly has progressively improved through the season. Had my doubts when he played in the preseason friendly against Arnham. One of the better summer signings.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by bcubed » 09 Apr 2018 00:05

Lower West wrote:
Crowbar6753 wrote:
LightwaterRoyal wrote:
To be fair he was putting a serious shift in. Chased every ball upfield, made every run off Bod and tracked Pearson back every time he went forward for Preston. Once Martin came on Clement he was winning flicks and having to chase them himself only for the ball to get launched back towards our box and Clement was sprinting back after it. That's the sort of passion / determination that will keep up.


Sometimes players are brought on with the instructions to run around for the last 35 mins and play your heart out and this really looked like one of those instances. I really think he could end up being a valuable player.


Certainly has progressively improved through the season. Had my doubts when he played in the preseason friendly against Arnham. One of the better summer signings.


Agreed he's been decent but he was seriously knackered. Could barely trot after half an hour of second half.
However much he's been running that was pretty poor to be so shattered.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by bcubed » 09 Apr 2018 00:11

stealthpapes wrote:
Sutekh wrote:
Zip wrote:
I know but it’s not been a problem at the club before so I’m surprised it’s deemed to be one now.


Irritating I know, that’s why I always bring a selection of bottle tops with me.


You laugh but at Poland Ukraine back in Marseille in 2016, I got my bag searched and a random stray bottle top confiscated with so much palaver. Sigh.

Anyway, followed remotely. Rather looking forwards to Fulham (a) now. JMW - tempted at all?



At the England v Russia game in Marseille, I had a small tube of sun cream confiscated, whereas at the other end of the ground it seemed perfectly OK for some delightful Russian fellows to walk in with flares and a rocket launcher. Happy days

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by wingnut » 09 Apr 2018 08:45

Bottle tops aren’t confiscated because the bottles make better missiles - it’s because the bottles don’t crush under foot with their tops on, meaning that you could twist your ankle if you stood on one when not expecting to.

Anyway, the game: not one for the purists really. Little skill on display from either side but PNE must be wondering how they lost it. They dominated the game, bossing midfield in particular, just poor finishing, resolute defending and a couple of decent saves getting in their way.
As others have said, it’s great to see our defenders being allowed to defend. As someone said after the QPR game, the fullbacks are being much closer to the centre backs meaning we’re stopping the ball coming through the middle but leaving our flanks exposed unless the wide midfielders get back to cover - something it looks like they’re reluctant to do (or just bad at) at the moment.


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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by muirinho » 09 Apr 2018 09:57

Snowflake Royal wrote:
muirinho wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:If you go to whoscored.com and select our game, then Bodin and pass accuracy, you can select key passes. All three of his came second half.

You can also go into the chalkboard, select Bodin and look at crosses. Most were second half.

So yeah, the stats would be more in your support than RB's and anyone with eyes knows Gunter rarely gets tight.


You don't need to put in crosses if you're being given the freedom of the county to go where you like. Bodin ran rings around Richards and QPRs best chance was a first half shot from him. If Blackett had played like that he'd have been booed off.

Also if you're going to use whoscored stats, maybe you should have a closer look.
Richards (45) Tackles 0. Interceptions 0. Clearances 1

Gunter (90) Tackles 3. Interceptions 3. Clearances 9.

If we were talking about tackles and clearances I might. Incidentally we're talking about Preston not QPR and I most certainly would not have been booing Blackett off.

Also, seeing as we're talking about stats, tackles and interceptions don't measure whether you are getting beaten regularly, "was dribbled" does. FYI, according to the stats neither Richards nor Gunter were. As for tackles and interceptions, Gunter made one second half tackle, not three, and two interceptions.

I think Clement made a good call. Richards was just back from injury and inexperienced and they targetted him. His big problem wasn't playing badly, it was Barrow doing absolutely nothing to help so it was often 2 on 1.

You'll note that Bodin got no more shots away first half than second. If he was going passed Richards with ease as you suggest I'd expect more.

Letting in cross after cross is not really any better than getting beaten repeatedly anyway.


My point was that it is silly to use a single stat or "characteristic" to rate a player. All players do some things well and some things not so well in any game. Some of that is ingrained through early coaching, some of it is natural ability or inclination, some of it is as a result of tactics.

In addition the sort of stats available on whoscored and the like are very clumsy, and aren't as good as actual proper analysis. According to whoscored, Gunter was the second-best player on the pitch on Saturday. Do you believe that? If not, why use anything from there? Incidentally whoscored says Richards was dispossessed (and that is true, because I saw it virtually in front of me), so if you are using a different site that says he wasn't, then even the stats sites disagree with each other.

Clement has clearly simplified what the fullbacks are meant to be doing, and has told them to defend narrow, and stop runs into the box. The central defenders are supposed to defend against the crosses. Ilori and Moore were eating up crosses all game - as far as I am concerned this method is working.

Did Gunter do a good defensive job on Saturday? Yes, yes he did (although I certainly wouldn't rate him as the second best player out there!!!) unless the one and only metric you use is something that the current coach seemingly doesn't regard as that important right now anyway. (nor is it something he's ever been much cop at, and yet has made a very decent career without it - perhaps it's not as important as some on here seem to think)

Richards was struggling because he's less experienced at playing in different systems, and had got a different set of instructions than he had from Stam, and also because he's clearly not yet match fit. His first 20 minutes were horrible, but Liam Moore coached him through the rest of the half, and Kelly came over that side more frequently to help out. But that meant their own games were complicated by having to worry about Richards, which they didn't need to do in the second half. I also suspect that Gunter was better at shouting at Barrow!

Good learning experience, and I'm sure he will be better next game, but we agree it was the right decision to haul him off at half time. My original beef was with the suggestion that he shouldn't have been subbed, seemingly based just on Gunter backing off crosses.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Snowflake Royal » 09 Apr 2018 11:36

muirinho wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
muirinho wrote:
You don't need to put in crosses if you're being given the freedom of the county to go where you like. Bodin ran rings around Richards and QPRs best chance was a first half shot from him. If Blackett had played like that he'd have been booed off.

Also if you're going to use whoscored stats, maybe you should have a closer look.
Richards (45) Tackles 0. Interceptions 0. Clearances 1

Gunter (90) Tackles 3. Interceptions 3. Clearances 9.

If we were talking about tackles and clearances I might. Incidentally we're talking about Preston not QPR and I most certainly would not have been booing Blackett off.

Also, seeing as we're talking about stats, tackles and interceptions don't measure whether you are getting beaten regularly, "was dribbled" does. FYI, according to the stats neither Richards nor Gunter were. As for tackles and interceptions, Gunter made one second half tackle, not three, and two interceptions.

I think Clement made a good call. Richards was just back from injury and inexperienced and they targetted him. His big problem wasn't playing badly, it was Barrow doing absolutely nothing to help so it was often 2 on 1.

You'll note that Bodin got no more shots away first half than second. If he was going passed Richards with ease as you suggest I'd expect more.

Letting in cross after cross is not really any better than getting beaten repeatedly anyway.


My point was that it is silly to use a single stat or "characteristic" to rate a player. All players do some things well and some things not so well in any game. Some of that is ingrained through early coaching, some of it is natural ability or inclination, some of it is as a result of tactics.

In addition the sort of stats available on whoscored and the like are very clumsy, and aren't as good as actual proper analysis. According to whoscored, Gunter was the second-best player on the pitch on Saturday. Do you believe that? If not, why use anything from there? Incidentally whoscored says Richards was dispossessed (and that is true, because I saw it virtually in front of me), so if you are using a different site that says he wasn't, then even the stats sites disagree with each other.

Clement has clearly simplified what the fullbacks are meant to be doing, and has told them to defend narrow, and stop runs into the box. The central defenders are supposed to defend against the crosses. Ilori and Moore were eating up crosses all game - as far as I am concerned this method is working.

Did Gunter do a good defensive job on Saturday? Yes, yes he did (although I certainly wouldn't rate him as the second best player out there!!!) unless the one and only metric you use is something that the current coach seemingly doesn't regard as that important right now anyway. (nor is it something he's ever been much cop at, and yet has made a very decent career without it - perhaps it's not as important as some on here seem to think)

Richards was struggling because he's less experienced at playing in different systems, and had got a different set of instructions than he had from Stam, and also because he's clearly not yet match fit. His first 20 minutes were horrible, but Liam Moore coached him through the rest of the half, and Kelly came over that side more frequently to help out. But that meant their own games were complicated by having to worry about Richards, which they didn't need to do in the second half. I also suspect that Gunter was better at shouting at Barrow!

Good learning experience, and I'm sure he will be better next game, but we agree it was the right decision to haul him off at half time. My original beef was with the suggestion that he shouldn't have been subbed, seemingly based just on Gunter backing off crosses.

I'm afraid I stopped at your firt sentence because that's not what I, nor I think JMW, was doing.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 09 Apr 2018 12:15

Norfolk Royal wrote:'Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling, Clement-ine...'


..We were lost and gone forever, then you saved us Clementine!

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by paultheroyal » 09 Apr 2018 12:51

My bitesize view...

People saying we have done enough are dillusional. Need this done by Cardiff. Beat Sunderland and Ipswich will be enough.
PA Announcer - you had one job!
Interesting singing section in south stand. How did that come about?
Not quite getting hatred for Martin. He had little to feed on and chased down what he could.
Back four so much better - didn't think Richards was that bad warranting to be pulled off but Bacuna is a better right back than a centre mid.
Great to have an atmosphere back at the club.


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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Victor Meldrew » 09 Apr 2018 15:33

Snowflake Royal wrote:Ah yes, the using the selection choices of poor performing Reading managers who've consistently failed and often had no alternatives at right back to defend Gunter, rather than anything he's ever actually done.

Already dismissed your other point by explaining Bodin had just as many shots against Gunter, just as many successful passes, and that neither Gunts nor Richards were dribbled round (according to the stats which are obviously fallible and not to be exclusively relied upon).

I'll just chuck out (again) that I thought Gunter had a decent game (by his standards), that in the absence of giving Richards any actual support the HT move was the right one (though not for Clement!), and I've offered no criticism of Gunter going forward against Preston.


Interesting that when questioned after the game the manager said that he was disappointed with the number of crosses and it is something he is keen to address.
I have to agree with JMW and Ian that there were far too many crosses put in by Bodin in the second half with our experienced full-back out there not preventing those crosses.
Clement has family connections with full-backs so hopefully he will get ours to do what is their first priority, i.e. stop the cross.

Incidentally whether the manager was just covering up for young Richards but he did say that with Blackett injured he did have to rush the young lad back into action when he wasn't really ready-I did notice that Richards was wearing thigh strapping.
There is definitely a player there with a future but it may be as a left-sided midfielder-he has an excellent first touch and moves well going forward.

BTW are we now the most clinical finishers in English football?
As another poster pointed out, that is 2 shots on target in 2 home games that we have won 1-0.

As for Genome ( I think it was) suggesting that Preston were no good?
They had 14 shots off target, 4 on target, 58 per cent possession and hit the woodwork twice.
So, ineffective at finishing maybe (as Woodcote said, no Hugill) but they were IMHO quite a decent side.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Snowflake Royal » 09 Apr 2018 17:23

Victor Meldrew wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:Ah yes, the using the selection choices of poor performing Reading managers who've consistently failed and often had no alternatives at right back to defend Gunter, rather than anything he's ever actually done.

Already dismissed your other point by explaining Bodin had just as many shots against Gunter, just as many successful passes, and that neither Gunts nor Richards were dribbled round (according to the stats which are obviously fallible and not to be exclusively relied upon).

I'll just chuck out (again) that I thought Gunter had a decent game (by his standards), that in the absence of giving Richards any actual support the HT move was the right one (though not for Clement!), and I've offered no criticism of Gunter going forward against Preston.


Interesting that when questioned after the game the manager said that he was disappointed with the number of crosses and it is something he is keen to address.
I have to agree with JMW and Ian that there were far too many crosses put in by Bodin in the second half with our experienced full-back out there not preventing those crosses.
Clement has family connections with full-backs so hopefully he will get ours to do what is their first priority, i.e. stop the cross.

Incidentally whether the manager was just covering up for young Richards but he did say that with Blackett injured he did have to rush the young lad back into action when he wasn't really ready-I did notice that Richards was wearing thigh strapping.
There is definitely a player there with a future but it may be as a left-sided midfielder-he has an excellent first touch and moves well going forward.

BTW are we now the most clinical finishers in English football?
As another poster pointed out, that is 2 shots on target in 2 home games that we have won 1-0.

As for Genome ( I think it was) suggesting that Preston were no good?
They had 14 shots off target, 4 on target, 58 per cent possession and hit the woodwork twice.
So, ineffective at finishing maybe (as Woodcote said, no Hugill) but they were IMHO quite a decent side.

Tbf I thought Preston looked a lot more likely to score than QPR, though I was more confident in our defending.

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by John Madejski's Wallet » 09 Apr 2018 18:40

stealthpapes wrote:Anyway, followed remotely. Rather looking forwards to Fulham (a) now. JMW - tempted at all?

.....bought a ticket, but I've put my back out and currently lying on the floor :(

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Re: BFTG - Preston -Home

by Norfolk Royal » 25 Apr 2018 09:50

Tilehurstsouthbank wrote:
Norfolk Royal wrote:'Oh my darling, oh my darling, oh my darling, Clement-ine...'


..We were lost and gone forever, then you saved us Clementine!


Likes.

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