BFTG Fulham

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PistolPete
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BFTG Fulham

by PistolPete » 10 Apr 2018 22:59

Mixed feelings after that game; we lost, we (occasionally) looked the more threatening, we have some serious rebuilding to do, we could have sneaked a draw...

Ratings:

Mannone: 7 Did his job well enough, would have been an 8 if he’d got lucky with their goal

Gunter: 5 Needs to CLOSE DOWN.

Richards: 4 At fault for the goal (perhaps?) and looked an academy player playing up a level

Moore: 7 Bossed it and, had we won, he’d get an 8 -(not a centre forward though)

Illori: 7 Moments of class when he steps into midfield, benefitted by Moore’s confidence. Some good blocks and good tackles.

Edwards: 5 Looked like I do in midfield, can’t work out whether to look forwards or backwards

Kelly: 3/6 First half was like a toddler playing with boys 3 years older, second half he did what he’s good at, getting/giving passes to make space

Bacuna: 6/3 I HATE to say this, but he’s a full back. I know he wants to be a midfielder, but his skill set is suited to full back- a better Gunter if you will. Can’t blame him for the red card, I would have done the same. Still giving him a second half 3 though

Aluko: 3 Got the ball, drifted inside, gave it simple. That’s not your job!!! (Oh, and vaguely rate him!)

Barrow: 7 Outrageous skill followed by ludicrous overconfidence. Fizzled out when Fulham realise she was the only threat.

JDB: 6 Neither a target man nor a channel runner, nor an off the shoulder number 9. Didn’t drop for him I guess

Subs

Kermorgant: 4 Retire mate, we’ll still love you and your song

Martin: 3 oxf*rd off mate, we’ll never love you or sing you a proper song (clearly a good player if he gave a shit)

Swift: 7 Weird. Really weird. Looks overweight yet played defensively well and nearly made a couple of telling offensive passes. Get fit for ‘18/‘19 fella


General thoughts....

-Fulham didn’t sing until 86th minute
-Clappers are just noise
-Clement is going to have us mid table next season for sure
-We need a proper ball winning midfielder and 3 forwards (barrow and Aluko can stay)
-Bacuna needs to accept he’s our new right back

Oh well, the results went our way again!!

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WAZZOCK
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Re: BFTG Fulham

by WAZZOCK » 10 Apr 2018 23:46

I have the experience of watching Reading for twenty years or so, which has given me a decent enough basis for recognising when football is good or bad.

One thing I don’t have, is the experience and/or knowledge of someone who has worked in football coaching or management as a full time vocation.

With all of this in mind, i am really struggling to underatand what has happened in the last four fixtures - all of which I have watched.

We have come out with 6 points from a possible 12. Three of these matches have been against some teams in great form (QPR, Villa and Fulham), and the fourth against a team who have been an ever present in the top half this campaign (Preston).

We sacked a manager recently because we were not getting the results we needed, and the confidence within the team looked shot to pieces.

A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.

We have 2/3 shots on target in four matches and somehow manage to win two of them. How has that happened?

I have seen nothing from the four performances to suggest that we have improved, yet we find ourselves in a better position than we would have done under the previous manager (probably).

Football is a strange game, and I think we have been an absolute anomaly over the last fortnight. Aside from a couple of decent forays in the opening 20 minutes, we offered absolutely nothing this evening, yet some fans on twitter are hailing the performance as an improvement. Anyone care to offer and explanation?

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PistolPete
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Re: BFTG Fulham

by PistolPete » 10 Apr 2018 23:50

WAZZOCK wrote:I have the experience of watching Reading for twenty years or so, which has given me a decent enough basis for recognising when football is good or bad.

One thing I don’t have, is the experience and/or knowledge of someone who has worked in football coaching or management as a full time vocation.

With all of this in mind, i am really struggling to underatand what has happened in the last four fixtures - all of which I have watched.

We have come out with 6 points from a possible 12. Three of these matches have been against some teams in great form (QPR, Villa and Fulham), and the fourth against a team who have been an ever present in the top half this campaign (Preston).

We sacked a manager recently because we were not getting the results we needed, and the confidence within the team looked shot to pieces.

A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.

We have 2/3 shots on target in four matches and somehow manage to win two of them. How has that happened?

I have seen nothing from the four performances to suggest that we have improved, yet we find ourselves in a better position than we would have done under the previous manager (probably).

Football is a strange game, and I think we have been an absolute anomaly over the last fortnight. Aside from a couple of decent forays in the opening 20 minutes, we offered absolutely nothing this evening, yet some fans on twitter are hailing the performance as an improvement. Anyone care to offer and explanation?


Haha, good question. Agree!

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Royality creeps In » 11 Apr 2018 00:11

Just back
A bit disappointing that the first Fulham Attack leads to a goal. We bossed the game before that.
Although not having to work their keeper much we seemed to have overall control of the game. Fulham huffed and puffed and are probably relieved to have gained three points.
I have seen much better teams than them and funnily Cardiff aren't one of them.

Our fans have found their Mojo again and I thought on the whole were pretty good. Fulham fans were dreadful. Worse than ever. Those stupid clappy things are just annoying.

At the end of the day another game gone and the teams below have one less game to catch us up. Happy Days!

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Za Vas » 11 Apr 2018 01:27

WAZZOCK wrote:A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.


Totally disagree with this - the defence look far more assured on the ball knowing that they can hit it long if they need to. That said, it's by no means the go to option and you can see they are playing the ball out when possible.

All in all, a decent defensive performance let down by one defensive lapse. At first viewing it appeared to be Richards who lost his man but I would need to see it again. We never threatened but I don't think they looked much like scoring either.

Clement seems to be doing a good job of getting us organised and you can't argue much with that. The red cards are a worry, although I thought Bacuna could have got away with a yellow; it was a stupid challenge to make regardless.

Three points on Saturday is a must.


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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Za Vas » 11 Apr 2018 01:29

Royality creeps In wrote:JFulham fans were dreadful. Worse than ever. Those stupid clappy things are just annoying.


Saw some helmets wearing half and half Reading/Fulham scarfs :oops:

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by CountryRoyal » 11 Apr 2018 02:05

I was very drunk and paid little attention to the game but what I did see was that whilst we didn’t do anything, we also made Fulham look distinctly oxf*rd average and their goal was soft as shit (though they did hit the post).

Wont do players but will talk about support.

Thought we were for the most part excellent, really up for it and had a laugh, was like the reading of old - missed that feeling. Had a mild disagreement with a fan about his view of the piazon chants queuing up for beer. He was really affronted by them, didn’t understand it myself. The chants were against piazon, not condoning his actions, he seemed to have got really upset by even mentioning it.

Anyway, as far as the performance goes there was lots to be encouraged by, for a start we actually went for it unlike Villa. Don’t get me wrong, we were shit, but like not even remotely as shit as we possibly could have been.

On to Sunderland!

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by WAZZOCK » 11 Apr 2018 07:04

Za Vas wrote:
WAZZOCK wrote:A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.


Totally disagree with this - the defence look far more assured on the ball knowing that they can hit it long if they need to. That said, it's by no means the go to option and you can see they are playing the ball out when possible.

All in all, a decent defensive performance let down by one defensive lapse. At first viewing it appeared to be Richards who lost his man but I would need to see it again. We never threatened but I don't think they looked much like scoring either.

Clement seems to be doing a good job of getting us organised and you can't argue much with that. The red cards are a worry, although I thought Bacuna could have got away with a yellow; it was a stupid challenge to make regardless.

Three points on Saturday is a must.


You've actually made my point all the more puzzling with your assessment above. I think rather than dwelling too much on my point about how we clear out of defence, I was focusing more on how very little the style has changed under Clement yet we've managed to pick up two favourable results - you've reaffirmed that even further with the point you made.

I suppose I'm just perplexed how a team who couldn't buy a win under a previous manager have made a change that has resulted in much less goal scoring chances being created, but the results have improved. :?:

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Hound » 11 Apr 2018 07:09

Be intersting to see how we play against a lesser team (ie the next 3) particularly if we don’t get an early goal

The games have panned out as they have at home due to us scoring an early goal, and away as we’ve played 2 decent teams


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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Vision » 11 Apr 2018 07:50

WAZZOCK wrote:
Za Vas wrote:
WAZZOCK wrote:A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.


Totally disagree with this - the defence look far more assured on the ball knowing that they can hit it long if they need to. That said, it's by no means the go to option and you can see they are playing the ball out when possible.

All in all, a decent defensive performance let down by one defensive lapse. At first viewing it appeared to be Richards who lost his man but I would need to see it again. We never threatened but I don't think they looked much like scoring either.

Clement seems to be doing a good job of getting us organised and you can't argue much with that. The red cards are a worry, although I thought Bacuna could have got away with a yellow; it was a stupid challenge to make regardless.

Three points on Saturday is a must.


You've actually made my point all the more puzzling with your assessment above. I think rather than dwelling too much on my point about how we clear out of defence, I was focusing more on how very little the style has changed under Clement yet we've managed to pick up two favourable results - you've reaffirmed that even further with the point you made.

I suppose I'm just perplexed how a team who couldn't buy a win under a previous manager have made a change that has resulted in much less goal scoring chances being created, but the results have improved. :?:


Defensive organisation. Keeping clean sheets gives you a chance of winning a game with a moment of magic/opposition error/set piece as has proved to be the case in the two home games..

The irony is that we looked far more likely to score prior to Clement yet fans were bored to death by the way we went about it. Seems it's far more entertaining to watch us let the opposition have the ball then defend for our lives with headers/blocks/chasing down etc.

We've had more red cards than shots on target in the four games so far!!!!!

Bottom line is Clement's only remit is survival. The change has got the fans onside again and that's more than good enough for now.

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Vision » 11 Apr 2018 08:01

Hound wrote:Be intersting to see how we play against a lesser team (ie the next 3) particularly if we don’t get an early goal

The games have panned out as they have at home due to us scoring an early goal, and away as we’ve played 2 decent teams


Yes and in Clement's defence , Villa aside, he's picked pretty attacking line ups on paper. The lack of confidence is still pretty obviously there which I guess is why he's making it less complicated at the moment. To play the way Stam wanted to it really needs everyone to be comfortable, confident and showing for the ball. When that doesn't happen it meant we had centre halves and even the keeper trying to make something happen. Not really a recipe for success. So clearly Clement has taken a lot of that responsibility away so they can concentrate more on defending.

As an aside it seems evident as a general rule of thumb that Managers/coaches that favour possession based football seem lacking in the area of defensive coaching/organisation even when , as in Stams's case, they were one of the best defenders themselves. See also Rodgers, Guardiola, Wenger.
Last edited by Vision on 11 Apr 2018 08:26, edited 1 time in total.

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CountryRoyal
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Re: BFTG Fulham

by CountryRoyal » 11 Apr 2018 08:12

Just realised that’s 2 shots on target in 4 games with 3 red cards. :lol:

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by NewCorkSeth » 11 Apr 2018 08:18

First half we played very well. Until conceding a weak goal. Special shout out to Edwards who in the first half was everywhere and did everything. I apologise for suggesting you should retire. Twice.

Second half we became incapable of stringing together a few passes. The heads noticeably dropped and when Martin came on our shape vanished and we became sloppy.

I noticed Barrow was very agitated in the second half and twice refused to run after a through ball he wasn't expecting. He's been a wonderful player for us in this awful season but I wonder if he has am attitude problem? It's not the first time he has had a go at teammates and teammates have gesticulated at him to others as if to say "he's doing it again" anyone else notice the extremely negative body language amongst the players? (I don't blame them)

Bacuna was obviously very fired up and I'm looking forward to seeing who gets sent off next. My money is on Ilori.


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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Esteban » 11 Apr 2018 08:23

WAZZOCK wrote:I have the experience of watching Reading for twenty years or so, which has given me a decent enough basis for recognising when football is good or bad.

One thing I don’t have, is the experience and/or knowledge of someone who has worked in football coaching or management as a full time vocation.

With all of this in mind, i am really struggling to underatand what has happened in the last four fixtures - all of which I have watched.

We have come out with 6 points from a possible 12. Three of these matches have been against some teams in great form (QPR, Villa and Fulham), and the fourth against a team who have been an ever present in the top half this campaign (Preston).

We sacked a manager recently because we were not getting the results we needed, and the confidence within the team looked shot to pieces.

A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.

We have 2/3 shots on target in four matches and somehow manage to win two of them. How has that happened?

I have seen nothing from the four performances to suggest that we have improved, yet we find ourselves in a better position than we would have done under the previous manager (probably).

Football is a strange game, and I think we have been an absolute anomaly over the last fortnight. Aside from a couple of decent forays in the opening 20 minutes, we offered absolutely nothing this evening, yet some fans on twitter are hailing the performance as an improvement. Anyone care to offer and explanation?


I would sum it up as:

1: Two good centre backs playing in a team with a far better defensive shape

2: Serious lack of quality in the final third (Barrow aside)

3: Lack of confidence

In short, if we go behind, we don't have the confidence or quality to get back into the game; but if we get our noses in front, we're just about good enough to hold on.

So far...

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Sutekh » 11 Apr 2018 09:03

PC says he thought that Reading started very well and played the best overall than any of his other games in charge

Only 3 shots all game though and none on target. So that makes 2 shots on target in the 4 games played (feel for the travelling fans there, 180 minutes and nothing on target).

Certainly a lot to do in the summer, whatever happens, before we get a clear idea of what PC’s teams are actually like though.

Overall it seemed a much better performance to me and at least Reading didn’t capitulate though never threatened after the 25th minute.

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Maneki Neko » 11 Apr 2018 09:04

WAZZOCK wrote:
Za Vas wrote:
WAZZOCK wrote:A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.


Totally disagree with this - the defence look far more assured on the ball knowing that they can hit it long if they need to. That said, it's by no means the go to option and you can see they are playing the ball out when possible.

All in all, a decent defensive performance let down by one defensive lapse. At first viewing it appeared to be Richards who lost his man but I would need to see it again. We never threatened but I don't think they looked much like scoring either.

Clement seems to be doing a good job of getting us organised and you can't argue much with that. The red cards are a worry, although I thought Bacuna could have got away with a yellow; it was a stupid challenge to make regardless.

Three points on Saturday is a must.


You've actually made my point all the more puzzling with your assessment above. I think rather than dwelling too much on my point about how we clear out of defence, I was focusing more on how very little the style has changed under Clement yet we've managed to pick up two favourable results - you've reaffirmed that even further with the point you made.

I suppose I'm just perplexed how a team who couldn't buy a win under a previous manager have made a change that has resulted in much less goal scoring chances being created, but the results have improved. :?:


football is a very simple game, and by changing the instructions to the defence it has allowed them to concentrate on defending, and ensuring the ball spends less time floating around the edge of our box, thus ensuring we concede fewer goals, which in turn means the goals we do score are now counting more often.

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by Coppells Lost Coat » 11 Apr 2018 09:14

Maneki Neko wrote:
football is a very simple game, and by changing the instructions to the defence it has allowed them to concentrate on defending, and ensuring the ball spends less time floating around the edge of our box, thus ensuring we concede fewer goals, which in turn means the goals we do score are now counting more often.


THIS!
Stam over thought a simple way of playing. Clement has come in and must of said, defenders defend and play the simple pass.
By the looks of the last few games. we have at least tried to break away fast - oppo have been making cynical fouls which suggest positioning and passing wise, we are doing something right.

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by SCIAG » 11 Apr 2018 09:57

WAZZOCK wrote:A new manager has come in, and the only tangible difference I can see between the two styles is that instead of trying to pass the ball out of defence we are giving it a big hoof instead.

We have 2/3 shots on target in four matches and somehow manage to win two of them. How has that happened?

I have seen nothing from the four performances to suggest that we have improved, yet we find ourselves in a better position than we would have done under the previous manager (probably).

Football is a strange game, and I think we have been an absolute anomaly over the last fortnight. Aside from a couple of decent forays in the opening 20 minutes, we offered absolutely nothing this evening, yet some fans on twitter are hailing the performance as an improvement. Anyone care to offer and explanation?

Some suggestions:

Playing it long more often means we have more men behind the ball. It also means that our defenders aren't obliged to make as many forward runs or play with such a wide line. We're much more compact defensively; the gap between left back and right back isn't as big, and nor is the gap between defence and midfield.

The goals have mostly been about individual skill, which isn't unusual when a team is underperforming. I think we'd have probably scored those goals under Stam, but then someone would misplace a pass and we'd be exposed a couple of times and we'd concede.

I think "they're spending more time thinking about defending" is nonsense but it gets at the right idea. Our system ironically made us more likely to lose possession in our own half, where the defence wouldn't be set up properly.

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by John Smith » 11 Apr 2018 09:59

We looked alright in the first 20. I thought Richards actually did quite well going forward and we showed promise penetrating down the flanks.

Their goal was very much against the run of play but once in front they showed why they are 2nd in the league and held out professionally.

Not the end of the world - wasn't expecting anything from the game and put in a decent enough display. Fully expecting a win vs. Sunderland on Saturday to seal safety for sure. A loss could be an issue.

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Re: BFTG Fulham

by jd82 » 11 Apr 2018 10:23

Ticktock

Anyway.. a relatively enjoyable game tbf. Our chance to get something out of it seemingly came and went with the 2 blocked shots a couple of minutes before their goal, which totally knocked the stuffing out of us.

Barrow looked very dangerous in the first 30. Aluko was only ever a danger to himself.

Maybe the half hour of peado chants was a bit much. Heard one woman (reading fan) complaining to the stewards about it, but refusing to repeat what the song was.

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