BFTG Wednesday (a)

NewCorkSeth
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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 09:41

2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too.


Stam would have lost all those games.

Less red cards only because the players would give less of a shit under Stam than they seem to now.

Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 09:50

leon wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I don't think there is much point in pointing out everything we did wrong there. Midfield was dire. Swift looked like he was playing with an under 18s team around him but was equally ineffective. Everyone seemed afraid to take a shot. Ref was poor. Goals were all from sloppy defending. Bod sadly has almost no goalscoring instinct. Clement has thus far done nothing to show he can do anything with this team.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too. Hell having no manager could probably have gotten the same points from those games.


Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.

I could care less.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by bcubed » 22 Apr 2018 09:57

NewCorkSeth wrote:
2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too.


Stam would have lost all those games.

Less red cards only because the players would give less of a shit under Stam than they seem to now.

Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.


We needed to change the manager.
It provided some fight some commitment some energy.
This simply wasn't there before and that's why (still against the odds) we won those games.
Stam would 100% have lost those games because he had no way of generating this

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leon
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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by leon » 22 Apr 2018 10:20

NewCorkSeth wrote:
leon wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I don't think there is much point in pointing out everything we did wrong there. Midfield was dire. Swift looked like he was playing with an under 18s team around him but was equally ineffective. Everyone seemed afraid to take a shot. Ref was poor. Goals were all from sloppy defending. Bod sadly has almost no goalscoring instinct. Clement has thus far done nothing to show he can do anything with this team.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too. Hell having no manager could probably have gotten the same points from those games.


Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.

I could care less.


Don’t get me wrong. I like you NCS.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Zip » 22 Apr 2018 10:28

I’m with Leon on this. Given that some folk refer to a new series as a new “season” I just can’t wait for the start of the new football series in August.

I look forward to receiving the usual :roll: or :|

PS I like NCS too.


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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 10:33

bcubed wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
Stam would have lost all those games.

Less red cards only because the players would give less of a shit under Stam than they seem to now.

Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.


We needed to change the manager.
It provided some fight some commitment some energy.
This simply wasn't there before and that's why (still against the odds) we won those games.
Stam would 100% have lost those games because he had no way of generating this

I fully accept that a change in manager was needed but I think we were far too late in hitting that button (although I accept the boards reasoning) Stam through inexperience and terrible luck created a morale problem that we still havent found our way out of. Clement had no chance of turning this lot around.

As for the "fight, energy and commitment" you are kidding yourself. Sunderland showed more fight than us in 1 match than we have since Clement took over and they are severely more oxf*rd than us. Our 2 wins under Clement were both distinctly against the run of play. One took a moment of excellent individual skill in Aluko. That could easily have happened under Stam. Chance was the only reason we won those games. The only tactical improvement I have seen was the switch to a 4-4-2 against Sunderland which paid off but that was the one game I think all of us would agree we should have won.

In short I dont think we have 7 points under Clement because of Clement. I know I'm being harsh and I am not saying his appointment is a mistake or that next season he will be a failure but he has provided us with nothing thus far. 'Arry oxf*rd Redknapp could have got us 7 points. Its easy to point to Moore and Ilori and say "hes improved the defense" but he hasnt. Weve conceded 9 goals and scored 4 in 6 matches and had 4 red cards. Thats terrible. Anyone who has watched every game under Clement will recognise that we still look as fragile as before. Stam had obviously instilled a sense that we wouldnt get anything from a match but in his last 6 games at least we scored 9 goals. It seems to be that Clement has taken away any attacking threat we have and substituted in conceding less but we are still conceding. Defensive stability doesnt work when you have no chance of actually scoring.

Currently we are just as likely to get relegated as we were when Stam was in charge and honestly I think we are playing much, much worse (barring a couple of minutes here and there)

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 10:34

leon wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
leon wrote:
Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.

I could care less.


Don’t get me wrong. I like you NCS.

I was hoping you would get angry about the Americanism "I could care less". It winds me up every time.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 10:39

Zip wrote:I’m with Leon on this. Given that some folk refer to a new series as a new “season” I just can’t wait for the start of the new football series in August.

I look forward to receiving the usual :roll: or :|

PS I like NCS too.

I think that a "season" refers to a run of episodes taking place consecutively (as in up until a mid season break) whereas a "series" is the entire run from that year. Like they renew a series which can run for 2 seasons. And then they sell the boxsets as seasons to make more money.

I dont like NCS. He's only ever been to the Madejski 4 times.

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leon
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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by leon » 22 Apr 2018 11:16

NewCorkSeth wrote:
Zip wrote:I’m with Leon on this. Given that some folk refer to a new series as a new “season” I just can’t wait for the start of the new football series in August.

I look forward to receiving the usual :roll: or :|

PS I like NCS too.

I think that a "season" refers to a run of episodes taking place consecutively (as in up until a mid season break) whereas a "series" is the entire run from that year. Like they renew a series which can run for 2 seasons. And then they sell the boxsets as seasons to make more money.

I dont like NCS. He's only ever been to the Madejski 4 times.


I’m with Zip on season.

I also hate tidbit - which was a prudish American derivative to avoid saying tit.


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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by LUX » 22 Apr 2018 11:25

How are you on assholes Leon?

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tmesis
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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by tmesis » 22 Apr 2018 12:09

NewCorkSeth wrote:
As for the "fight, energy and commitment" you are kidding yourself. Sunderland showed more fight than us in 1 match than we have since Clement took over and they are severely more oxf*rd than us. Our 2 wins under Clement were both distinctly against the run of play. One took a moment of excellent individual skill in Aluko. That could easily have happened under Stam. Chance was the only reason we won those games.

Currently we are just as likely to get relegated as we were when Stam was in charge and honestly I think we are playing much, much worse (barring a couple of minutes here and there)

The difference is that in the wins v QPR and Preston we really battled hard. Take away that fight, and we'd have almost certainly lost both. Given that under Stam we showed very little fight, then I'd say the flukey or not, Clement's take over was a big factor in us getting those wins.

If Stam had stayed, I think if we weren't in the bottom three right now, it'd only be on goal difference.

That said, a bit of extra effort in two home games aside, I don't think we are actually playing any better. In truth though, expecting any manager to come in and having this lot playing anything resembling decent football after six games is asking a bit much.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Notts Royal » 22 Apr 2018 12:51

Wednesday were really there for the taking in 1st half - they looked like they were on the beach. We had a lot of the ball & passing was good but too much sideways passing...granted it was in their half and between the midfield which is a refreshing change from Stam, but the players really look like they are lacking in confidence & out of ideas. Kelly & Swift were the biggest culprits of this as they were too scared to run forwards and penetrate the defence.

1st goal was a deflection & a tad harsh on us but from that point our heads went down and we looked increasingly fragile.

However, the biggest disappointment for me was how we came out after HT - the 2nd half showing was terrible. The defence, which looked good on the whole in the 1st half were shocking, and we became even less threatening when Aluko decided to drop back to retrieve the ball from deep. Great goal from Forestieri but some comical defending for that.

Mannone 6 - couldn’t do anything with the goals
Gunter 6 - standard Gunter showing
Moore 5 - evidently fed up with the others around him but didn’t feel he played that well
Ilori 5 - good first half but let Boyd (I think it was him) get in front of him for the 2nd
Blackett 4 - one of the better players in the 1st half but shocking 2nd half display and the red card was completely unnecessary
Joey 6 - not a Joey fan but had a reasonably good first half & tried to drive us forward at least
Kelly 4 - poor lad’s head goes completely when we are losing but he never runs with the ball. We always seem to pick up more points when he’s not in the team and I’d rather go with a midfield of Swift, Bacuna, Evans than have Kelly in there. He’s got potential but he can’t play with Swift at all
Swift 4 - starting to get frustrated with him now. Speed it up for pete’s sake and take some more shots. In fact, that goes for the whole team...take a frigging shot lads
Aluko 5 - just give up mate, it’s not working
Barrow 5 - goes missing for long periods when we are losing
Bodvarsson 5 - didn’t get the ball much but we show zero threat of scoring when he (or any of our strikers for that matter) starts up front

Kermit 6 - he had a few chances and we played slightly more direct with him
Richards 6 - skilful player he is, looks impressive but only on for 10 min
Clement 5 - just...meh

Fans 3 - living near Nottingham now, I don’t get to as many games and tend to go to localish away games. Completely understand the fans’ lack of excitement, but my life, if you’ve made the long trip up, surely you’d want to make a bit of noise?! It was a must-win game and to take such a small following is pretty poor. I’m trying to work out why our away following is so poor in comparison to other clubs with a similar home attendance - it’s one of the most affluent areas of the country! hopefully, following the initiatives going on at the Mad Stad at present, away followings will start to improve...which brings me onto my last point...

“South Stand” Fans - was great to see the group of fans and with such a mix of ages. Was a bit odd having them away from the other “standing” fans who were attempting to start chants. With such a small away support, it would have been better to have them both together to create greater noise initially - that would have probably helped the rest of the fans to get going. But Rome wasn’t built in a day, and it’s great to see what this section of fans are trying to do at home games.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Wisconsin Royal » 22 Apr 2018 12:57

2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
leon wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I don't think there is much point in pointing out everything we did wrong there. Midfield was dire. Swift looked like he was playing with an under 18s team around him but was equally ineffective. Everyone seemed afraid to take a shot. Ref was poor. Goals were all from sloppy defending. Bod sadly has almost no goalscoring instinct. Clement has thus far done nothing to show he can do anything with this team.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too. Hell having no manager could probably have gotten the same points from those games.


Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.


Calm down, already.

Irregardless, it still makes sense.

It's a whole nother issue if it didn't make sense.

Don't make it a thing.

Do the math, loser.

Going forward, if you don't like it go get some transportation out of here.


I have to defend some of this!

Irregardless and 'whole nother' are wrong in America, too.
'Go get some transportation out of here' - not sure where that comes from.

The rest seemed right to me :)

We all want as many American fans as possible to pay $140 for iFollow. It helps put a good team on the pitch.


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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Apr 2018 14:37

NewCorkSeth wrote:
2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too.


Stam would have lost all those games.

Less red cards only because the players would give less of a shit under Stam than they seem to now.

Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.

It's speculative nonsense which ever way you want to claim it, but given Stam had just achieved one win in 18 or 19 games, I don't have a clue why you seem to be so certain he'd have got two wins in six. Especially when his win came against Burton and Clement's came at home at 3pm against decent sides.

The fact is, Clement is manager, Stam isn't and Clement is making a good fist of keeping us up with those seven points. He's inherited a shit show and he shouldn't be judged on what happens in his 8 games of this season. He should just get backing regardless of what happens. Not have people immediately yearning for something different just because he hasn't waved a magic wand, and has gone three games without a win.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by CountryRoyal » 22 Apr 2018 14:42

Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
Stam would have lost all those games.

Less red cards only because the players would give less of a shit under Stam than they seem to now.

Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.

It's speculative nonsense which ever way you want to claim it, but given Stam had just achieved one win in 18 or 19 games, I don't have a clue why you seem to be so certain he'd have got two wins in six. Especially when his win came against Burton and Clement's came at home at 3pm against decent sides.

The fact is, Clement is manager, Stam isn't and Clement is making a good fist of keeping us up with those seven points. He's inherited a shit show and he shouldn't be judged on what happens in his 8 games of this season. He should just get backing regardless of what happens. Not have people immediately yearning for something different just because he hasn't waved a magic wand, and has gone three games without a win.


+1

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 16:59

Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
2 world wars, 1 world cup wrote:
Stam would have lost all those games.

Less red cards only because the players would give less of a shit under Stam than they seem to now.

Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.

It's speculative nonsense which ever way you want to claim it, but given Stam had just achieved one win in 18 or 19 games, I don't have a clue why you seem to be so certain he'd have got two wins in six. Especially when his win came against Burton and Clement's came at home at 3pm against decent sides.

The fact is, Clement is manager, Stam isn't and Clement is making a good fist of keeping us up with those seven points. He's inherited a shit show and he shouldn't be judged on what happens in his 8 games of this season. He should just get backing regardless of what happens. Not have people immediately yearning for something different just because he hasn't waved a magic wand, and has gone three games without a win.

I'm not yearning for difference. I don't want Stam back and I don't want Clement gone. I am, imo fairly, critiquing his impact this far.
We were shit before and we are still shit. Morale hasn't improved, performances haven't improved and tactically we haven't improved.
It's easy to say "what did you expect?" But it's not unreasonable to have expected the team to improve. Otherwise what was the point in the change of manager? I believe our performances have been just as bad and in some cases worse since the change and would challenge anyone on here to point out where we have improved performance wise.
Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Denver Royal » 22 Apr 2018 17:33

NewCorkSeth wrote:I'm not yearning for difference. I don't want Stam back and I don't want Clement gone. I am, imo fairly, critiquing his impact this far.
We were shit before and we are still shit. Morale hasn't improved, performances haven't improved and tactically we haven't improved.
It's easy to say "what did you expect?" But it's not unreasonable to have expected the team to improve. Otherwise what was the point in the change of manager? I believe our performances have been just as bad and in some cases worse since the change and would challenge anyone on here to point out where we have improved performance wise.
Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.


Seth, I hear you. I would say that I don't see us getting much at Cardiff, and so I think the Ipswich game is huge, for several reasons.

I think its a big game for the fans, the club, and for Clement. Obviously we need the points, but If we get a good, comfortable win, combined with an impressive performance, maybe with an attacking display, and the fans get in to it, then it could set a tone and create some positive vibes for the Summer.

But if we struggle against Ipswich, and we draw or lose, then it could create some doubts. We may still stay up if other teams falter, but I think it could mean a long off-season of worry that we might stew over.

As I say, Cardiff away the last game of season is not an ideal match to end on anyway, so I think this Saturday is massive, so lets hope we are well up for it.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by tmesis » 22 Apr 2018 18:48

NewCorkSeth wrote:Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

There wasn't that much luck in the two clean sheets in those games. The effort the team put into defending those leads was outstanding.

I don't think we'd have seen the same levels of determination with Stam still in charge.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Hound » 22 Apr 2018 19:59

Said kn another thread - if we beat Ipswich (granted a huge If) then Clement has done a very good job. 3 wins and a draw in 7 pretty tough games would be a very good return no matter how they were achieved

The defence has definitely improved - could not imagine we’d have kept clean sheets against QPR or Preston. In saying that we still aren’t playing well and there is a huge job to do in the summer

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Crowbar6753 » 22 Apr 2018 20:03

tmesis wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

There wasn't that much luck in the two clean sheets in those games. The effort the team put into defending those leads was outstanding.

I don't think we'd have seen the same levels of determination with Stam still in charge.


I totally agree regarding the effort and sheer will to win in those two home games, so my question to the team from a fans perspective is where was the effort in the game yesterday? We played like a team in the middle of the table who were already on the beach!!
The was no bite, no urgency and zero fight throughout the whole team. I was one who thought that Stam was the problem, but the more i watch the team and the dross served up yesterday i am beginning to thing its all down to the players and their attitudes. We really need a big over haul this Summer and rip the heart out of this team and start afresh.

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