BFTG Wednesday (a)

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Apr 2018 20:35

NewCorkSeth wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:Would he? I know his entire season was a failure but 2 wins and a draw? He could have GOTTEN that.

It's speculative nonsense which ever way you want to claim it, but given Stam had just achieved one win in 18 or 19 games, I don't have a clue why you seem to be so certain he'd have got two wins in six. Especially when his win came against Burton and Clement's came at home at 3pm against decent sides.

The fact is, Clement is manager, Stam isn't and Clement is making a good fist of keeping us up with those seven points. He's inherited a shit show and he shouldn't be judged on what happens in his 8 games of this season. He should just get backing regardless of what happens. Not have people immediately yearning for something different just because he hasn't waved a magic wand, and has gone three games without a win.

I'm not yearning for difference. I don't want Stam back and I don't want Clement gone. I am, imo fairly, critiquing his impact this far.
We were shit before and we are still shit. Morale hasn't improved, performances haven't improved and tactically we haven't improved.
It's easy to say "what did you expect?" But it's not unreasonable to have expected the team to improve. Otherwise what was the point in the change of manager? I believe our performances have been just as bad and in some cases worse since the change and would challenge anyone on here to point out where we have improved performance wise.
Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

The team objectively has improved. It's won 7 points in six games. Two clean sheets.
No improvement is going to be complete, across the board or without set backs. You make your luck.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 20:39

tmesis wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

There wasn't that much luck in the two clean sheets in those games. The effort the team put into defending those leads was outstanding.

I don't think we'd have seen the same levels of determination with Stam still in charge.

Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. QPR - 27 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.
Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. Preston - 17 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.

Thats our 2 wins. Another similarity between those 2 games is that almost all the stats were against us.

Moore obviously was phenomenal in the Preston game recording 21 headers and Aluko scored a wonderful goal against QPR but those were individual acts of brilliance. Individual performances like that can come under any manager.

Anyway here is some quotes from our BFTG from the QPR fixture (as I cant be arsed going through both)

Westwood52 - "Our three statues in midfield were in stark contrast to the mobility QPR had. Luckily they had nothing up front or out wide."
Leon - "Interesting game, we rode our luck but deserved the points for the spirit we showed"
Snowflake Royal - "Shouldn't get carried away. We'd have lost that under Stam and not just because he was doing badly. QPR had enough opportunities to win two, maybe three, games and fluffed them all. Nice to get lucky for a change."
Caversham Royal - "In all seriousness it was a fantastic result, but we did ride our luck at times."
Platypus - "Let's not carried away. Same faultlines still present in spades. QPR should have scored at least 2 in first half and looked a far more cohesive team.."
Jackson Corner - "QPR dominated that game and must be wondering how they didn't get anything out of it."
CountryRoyal - "Were it not for some woeful finishing and good last ditch defending/blocks, they would have won comfortably."

Seems like quite a lot of user noticed luck was on our side in that game. Yes, there are just as many comment saying we were more organised defensively but that hasnt been apparent recently.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 22 Apr 2018 20:48

Snowflake Royal wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
Snowflake Royal wrote:It's speculative nonsense which ever way you want to claim it, but given Stam had just achieved one win in 18 or 19 games, I don't have a clue why you seem to be so certain he'd have got two wins in six. Especially when his win came against Burton and Clement's came at home at 3pm against decent sides.

The fact is, Clement is manager, Stam isn't and Clement is making a good fist of keeping us up with those seven points. He's inherited a shit show and he shouldn't be judged on what happens in his 8 games of this season. He should just get backing regardless of what happens. Not have people immediately yearning for something different just because he hasn't waved a magic wand, and has gone three games without a win.

I'm not yearning for difference. I don't want Stam back and I don't want Clement gone. I am, imo fairly, critiquing his impact this far.
We were shit before and we are still shit. Morale hasn't improved, performances haven't improved and tactically we haven't improved.
It's easy to say "what did you expect?" But it's not unreasonable to have expected the team to improve. Otherwise what was the point in the change of manager? I believe our performances have been just as bad and in some cases worse since the change and would challenge anyone on here to point out where we have improved performance wise.
Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

The team objectively has improved. It's won 7 points in six games. Two clean sheets.
No improvement is going to be complete, across the board or without set backs. You make your luck.

Objectively the results have improved. The team has not. The defense has improved. The attack has worsened. You cant just pick and choose objectivity as you admit - No improvement is going to be complete, across the board or without set backs.
We have improved certain areas of the team but the team is performing poorly and those improvements have only been strongly evident in 2 games out of 6. We were just as fragile against the other 4 teams and we have become "objectively" worse in attack.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Hound » 22 Apr 2018 21:09

Agree with that NCS, but the objective for Clement at the stage he was brought in was to keep us up - and only that.

A win on Saturday achieves his objective

Obvs things have to change in the summer and I don’t just mean sell a load of players and bring another new load in. The mentality, coaching, team spirit and fitness all need of a shit load of work

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Denver Royal » 22 Apr 2018 21:28

Notts Royal, excellent post above. Some really good insight. Agree with your thoughts re. Swift and Kelly.


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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by tmesis » 22 Apr 2018 22:25

NewCorkSeth wrote:
tmesis wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:Yes we got 2 wins but anyone who thinks those wins weren't largely down to luck is lying to themself.

There wasn't that much luck in the two clean sheets in those games. The effort the team put into defending those leads was outstanding.

I don't think we'd have seen the same levels of determination with Stam still in charge.

Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. QPR - 27 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.
Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. Preston - 17 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.

Thats our 2 wins. Another similarity between those 2 games is that almost all the stats were against us.

Moore obviously was phenomenal in the Preston game recording 21 headers and Aluko scored a wonderful goal against QPR but those were individual acts of brilliance. Individual performances like that can come under any manager.

Anyway here is some quotes from our BFTG from the QPR fixture (as I cant be arsed going through both)

Westwood52 - "Our three statues in midfield were in stark contrast to the mobility QPR had. Luckily they had nothing up front or out wide."
Leon - "Interesting game, we rode our luck but deserved the points for the spirit we showed"
Snowflake Royal - "Shouldn't get carried away. We'd have lost that under Stam and not just because he was doing badly. QPR had enough opportunities to win two, maybe three, games and fluffed them all. Nice to get lucky for a change."
Caversham Royal - "In all seriousness it was a fantastic result, but we did ride our luck at times."
Platypus - "Let's not carried away. Same faultlines still present in spades. QPR should have scored at least 2 in first half and looked a far more cohesive team.."
Jackson Corner - "QPR dominated that game and must be wondering how they didn't get anything out of it."
CountryRoyal - "Were it not for some woeful finishing and good last ditch defending/blocks, they would have won comfortably."

Seems like quite a lot of user noticed luck was on our side in that game. Yes, there are just as many comment saying we were more organised defensively but that hasnt been apparent recently.

You seem to be deliberately missing my point - that the "new manager factor" made the players work their arses off for a couple of games, and without that extra effort we'd have lost both games easily.

Yes, you could clearly say we rode our luck, but that extra effort made it much harder for both QPR and Preston to turn their dominance into clear chances.

Without that extra effort we'd have faced more clear chances, and in all likelihood, we'd have lost.

We worked much harder in those two games than we did in any game under Stam this season. A team working really hard will typically pick up more points than one than isn't.

I really don't see why you are finding that so hard to accept.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by double d » 22 Apr 2018 22:27

leon wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I don't think there is much point in pointing out everything we did wrong there. Midfield was dire. Swift looked like he was playing with an under 18s team around him but was equally ineffective. Everyone seemed afraid to take a shot. Ref was poor. Goals were all from sloppy defending. Bod sadly has almost no goalscoring instinct. Clement has thus far done nothing to show he can do anything with this team.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too. Hell having no manager could probably have gotten the same points from those games.


Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.


Now if I had a pathetic little bitch fit like a screechy pmt laden person like leon, pussyplat would be creaming himself emailing Graeme trying to ban me and say "tick tock" like a spaz.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by royalp-we » 22 Apr 2018 22:36

We are a shit show. But our defence has improved; and its probably largely down to Gibbs return.

I also think over the summer we will get some fight and desire back in the squad.

Im fine with us getting poor match stats - as long as we get results, that's all that matters to me.

A la 2012 when Gibbs helped us win the title

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by double d » 22 Apr 2018 22:46

Remember when Coppell was our manager and we literelly never ever got a red card. Barely remember getting one under mcd, Adkins and Clarke for that matter .


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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Denver Royal » 22 Apr 2018 22:59

If our D has improved because of Gibbs, then hey-ho I guess. We will, err, take it any way we can. You may actually be right, though.

thesis, this has been a decent thread, no worries.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by leon » 22 Apr 2018 23:13

double d wrote:
leon wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:I don't think there is much point in pointing out everything we did wrong there. Midfield was dire. Swift looked like he was playing with an under 18s team around him but was equally ineffective. Everyone seemed afraid to take a shot. Ref was poor. Goals were all from sloppy defending. Bod sadly has almost no goalscoring instinct. Clement has thus far done nothing to show he can do anything with this team.
I know this won't be a popular opinion but Stam probably would have gotten the same points haul from those fixtures. Maybe less red cards too. Hell having no manager could probably have gotten the same points from those games.


Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.


Now if I had a pathetic little bitch fit like a screechy pmt laden person like leon, pussyplat would be creaming himself emailing Graeme trying to ban me and say "tick tock" like a spaz.


Yes he would.

Because you have, absolutely no class whatsoever.

I, on the other hand, do.

That’s the difference.

Now fcuk off and stop bothering me.

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by double d » 23 Apr 2018 06:51

leon wrote:
double d wrote:
leon wrote:
Got.
Not fcuking gotten. You fcuking Americanised fcuking drone.

Got.

And don’t give me gotten is an old English word. It might be. 21st century and we don’t say gotten.

Got.
FFS

We are not American.

Sweet baby Jesus.


Now if I had a pathetic little bitch fit like a screechy pmt laden person like leon, pussyplat would be creaming himself emailing Graeme trying to ban me and say "tick tock" like a spaz.


Yes he would.

Because you have, absolutely no class whatsoever.

I, on the other hand, do.

That’s the difference.

Now fcuk off and stop bothering me.


No you don't.

What's happened to you l8ly? You have become a bitter person. Has somebody hurt you? Go outside and enjoy yourself like I have

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by NewCorkSeth » 23 Apr 2018 08:37

tmesis wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
tmesis wrote:There wasn't that much luck in the two clean sheets in those games. The effort the team put into defending those leads was outstanding.

I don't think we'd have seen the same levels of determination with Stam still in charge.

Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. QPR - 27 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.
Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. Preston - 17 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.

Thats our 2 wins. Another similarity between those 2 games is that almost all the stats were against us.

Moore obviously was phenomenal in the Preston game recording 21 headers and Aluko scored a wonderful goal against QPR but those were individual acts of brilliance. Individual performances like that can come under any manager.

Anyway here is some quotes from our BFTG from the QPR fixture (as I cant be arsed going through both)

Westwood52 - "Our three statues in midfield were in stark contrast to the mobility QPR had. Luckily they had nothing up front or out wide."
Leon - "Interesting game, we rode our luck but deserved the points for the spirit we showed"
Snowflake Royal - "Shouldn't get carried away. We'd have lost that under Stam and not just because he was doing badly. QPR had enough opportunities to win two, maybe three, games and fluffed them all. Nice to get lucky for a change."
Caversham Royal - "In all seriousness it was a fantastic result, but we did ride our luck at times."
Platypus - "Let's not carried away. Same faultlines still present in spades. QPR should have scored at least 2 in first half and looked a far more cohesive team.."
Jackson Corner - "QPR dominated that game and must be wondering how they didn't get anything out of it."
CountryRoyal - "Were it not for some woeful finishing and good last ditch defending/blocks, they would have won comfortably."

Seems like quite a lot of user noticed luck was on our side in that game. Yes, there are just as many comment saying we were more organised defensively but that hasnt been apparent recently.

You seem to be deliberately missing my point - that the "new manager factor" made the players work their arses off for a couple of games, and without that extra effort we'd have lost both games easily.

Yes, you could clearly say we rode our luck, but that extra effort made it much harder for both QPR and Preston to turn their dominance into clear chances.

Without that extra effort we'd have faced more clear chances, and in all likelihood, we'd have lost.

We worked much harder in those two games than we did in any game under Stam this season. A team working really hard will typically pick up more points than one than isn't.

I really don't see why you are finding that so hard to accept.

Oh I accept there was brief periods of improved effort particularly in those 2 wins and particularly from Moore and Ilori and yes that might not have happened under Stam but for people to say, definitively, we would and could not have got similar results under Stam is just not true given the circumstances.

Imo we won those games largely down to luck over tactics and there is no way we can say that we wouldn't have had that luck under Stam.

I know it's harsh to judge Clement as any manager would have had a tough time turning this shower of shite around but I am going to judge him after 6 games and he's not looking so shiny right now. Obviously that has no bearing on how well he will do given a summer to rework the team and given his coaching credentials you would expect him to do a good job improving us with more time on the training pitch.


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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by bcubed » 23 Apr 2018 16:28

tmesis wrote:
NewCorkSeth wrote:
tmesis wrote:There wasn't that much luck in the two clean sheets in those games. The effort the team put into defending those leads was outstanding.

I don't think we'd have seen the same levels of determination with Stam still in charge.

Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. QPR - 27 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.
Reading - 5 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal. Preston - 17 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.

Thats our 2 wins. Another similarity between those 2 games is that almost all the stats were against us.

Moore obviously was phenomenal in the Preston game recording 21 headers and Aluko scored a wonderful goal against QPR but those were individual acts of brilliance. Individual performances like that can come under any manager.

Anyway here is some quotes from our BFTG from the QPR fixture (as I cant be arsed going through both)

Westwood52 - "Our three statues in midfield were in stark contrast to the mobility QPR had. Luckily they had nothing up front or out wide."
Leon - "Interesting game, we rode our luck but deserved the points for the spirit we showed"
Snowflake Royal - "Shouldn't get carried away. We'd have lost that under Stam and not just because he was doing badly. QPR had enough opportunities to win two, maybe three, games and fluffed them all. Nice to get lucky for a change."
Caversham Royal - "In all seriousness it was a fantastic result, but we did ride our luck at times."
Platypus - "Let's not carried away. Same faultlines still present in spades. QPR should have scored at least 2 in first half and looked a far more cohesive team.."
Jackson Corner - "QPR dominated that game and must be wondering how they didn't get anything out of it."
CountryRoyal - "Were it not for some woeful finishing and good last ditch defending/blocks, they would have won comfortably."

Seems like quite a lot of user noticed luck was on our side in that game. Yes, there are just as many comment saying we were more organised defensively but that hasnt been apparent recently.

You seem to be deliberately missing my point - that the "new manager factor" made the players work their arses off for a couple of games, and without that extra effort we'd have lost both games easily.

Yes, you could clearly say we rode our luck, but that extra effort made it much harder for both QPR and Preston to turn their dominance into clear chances.

Without that extra effort we'd have faced more clear chances, and in all likelihood, we'd have lost.

We worked much harder in those two games than we did in any game under Stam this season. A team working really hard will typically pick up more points than one than isn't.

I really don't see why you are finding that so hard to accept.


Exactly this, which is what I tried to spell out as simply as possible earlier
Without the change in manager, I am totally convinced we wouldn't have seen the work rate improvement, the chasing back, the extra tackling and most importantly the almost desperate blocks

So with Stam in charge I very much doubt we would have picked up those two wins

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Re: BFTG Wednesday (a)

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 25 Apr 2018 15:00

double d wrote:
leon wrote:
double d wrote:
Now if I had a pathetic little bitch fit like a screechy pmt laden person like leon, pussyplat would be creaming himself emailing Graeme trying to ban me and say "tick tock" like a spaz.


Yes he would.

Because you have, absolutely no class whatsoever.

I, on the other hand, do.

That’s the difference.

Now fcuk off and stop bothering me.


No you don't.

What's happened to you l8ly? You have become a bitter person. Has somebody hurt you? Go outside and enjoy yourself like I have


"L8ly"? FFS how lazy are you not to just type "lately"? :roll:

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