Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by windermereROYAL » 05 May 2018 17:59

Ascotexgunner First of all, 3rd flattered us last season, our away form was rubbish, our home form and all the close wins got us there. If ever there was a team least deserving of promotion it was us. We were awful to watch.
Secondly, the biggest damage to the club has been Ron Gourley. To appoint someone just because they worked for Chelsea and Man u was utterly ridiculous. He has never been an outright CEO at a club and it shows. Handing out stupid contracts like flyers is really gonna hurt us. He's the man who is supposed to have the ears of the owners. He is clearly out of his depth. Interesting also listening to Everton fans. Koeman and Stam were mirror images footballingwise with their dutch shitty football. Even the types of players they bought in, as well as their ignorance of strikers was the same. Everton got rid of Koeman and foresaw what might happen. They got out of trouble easily. We kept Stam and havnt. We could have learnt from that at the time.


10 away wins rubbish? piss off. :shock:

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by WAZZOCK » 05 May 2018 18:20

The key moment of when things began to turn bad was when the owners sacked Howe to bring in Gourlay.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Mid Sussex Royal » 05 May 2018 19:28

Replacing Reid with Gilkes.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Mid Sussex Royal » 05 May 2018 19:30

From Despair To Where? Between 2012 and 2017, we had 4 different owners. For all his faults, Madejski provided stability and sustainability. The one thing the owners must do is show a bit of long term commitment and stability in the board room. That will filter down through the club.


Madejski was desperate for money and sold up to the first person that came along

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Hound » 05 May 2018 20:00

Snowflake Royal It's astonishing to me that managers who emphasise possession based fluid pass and move styles seem to think fitness is unimportant, or the players can take care of it on their own time.

Rodgers made exactly this mistake and now Stam.

Physical conditioning should come first, above all else.


I think there’s a lot in this.

I reckon Stam and co didn’t know what to do with the players after the PO defeat. I have sympathy that it must be hard finishing end of May on a big downer knowing you start again in 8 weeks but the preseason had no intensity and I reckon he was too soft on them, partly through being too nice and partly inexperience

Meant we came back start of the season unfit and unprepared. In the champ if you start the season unfit you are screwed as there is no time to work on your fitness once the games start. Basically just topping up and going from game to game

Kevin de Bruyne said something along the lines of you feel great for the first 10 games, ok for the next 10 then awful for the last 20. I reckon we never had the fitness to make the first 20 even any good


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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Royal Rother » 05 May 2018 20:17

Mid Sussex Royal
From Despair To Where? Between 2012 and 2017, we had 4 different owners. For all his faults, Madejski provided stability and sustainability. The one thing the owners must do is show a bit of long term commitment and stability in the board room. That will filter down through the club.


Madejski was desperate for money and sold up to the first person that came along


Poppycock.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Mid Sussex Royal » 05 May 2018 20:55

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From Despair To Where? Between 2012 and 2017, we had 4 different owners. For all his faults, Madejski provided stability and sustainability. The one thing the owners must do is show a bit of long term commitment and stability in the board room. That will filter down through the club.


Madejski was desperate for money and sold up to the first person that came along


Poppycock.


Ok - how else do you explain selling up to a guy rejected by other English clubs as well as failing fit and proper test rules?

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Denver Royal » 05 May 2018 21:32

windermereROYAL
Ascotexgunner First of all, 3rd flattered us last season, our away form was rubbish, our home form and all the close wins got us there. If ever there was a team least deserving of promotion it was us. We were awful to watch.
Secondly, the biggest damage to the club has been Ron Gourley. To appoint someone just because they worked for Chelsea and Man u was utterly ridiculous. He has never been an outright CEO at a club and it shows. Handing out stupid contracts like flyers is really gonna hurt us. He's the man who is supposed to have the ears of the owners. He is clearly out of his depth. Interesting also listening to Everton fans. Koeman and Stam were mirror images footballingwise with their dutch shitty football. Even the types of players they bought in, as well as their ignorance of strikers was the same. Everton got rid of Koeman and foresaw what might happen. They got out of trouble easily. We kept Stam and havnt. We could have learnt from that at the time.


10 away wins rubbish? piss off. :shock:


Keep hearing '3rd flattered us, close wins', etc. Turning around a club following 17th and 19th placed seasons is hard enough in itself. But to win every game with a spanking and in style is nigh on impossible. Look at most teams up there in promo places each season. They've won close games. Cardiff won lotsa games by one goal this season. Their fans worry and talk about it and say 'It flatters us'. But, it's not unusual.

LowerWest, you are right of course, there were inconsistencies. All was not well. I agree, mate. But it rarely is, for any team, at any time. Especially us:)
Last edited by Denver Royal on 05 May 2018 22:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Royal Rother » 05 May 2018 21:33

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Madejski was desperate for money and sold up to the first person that came along


Poppycock.


Ok - how else do you explain selling up to a guy rejected by other English clubs as well as failing fit and proper test rules?


Not taking issue with any of that but Zingarevitch was not the 1st person to come along.


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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by WAZZOCK » 05 May 2018 21:48

Mid Sussex Royal
From Despair To Where? Between 2012 and 2017, we had 4 different owners. For all his faults, Madejski provided stability and sustainability. The one thing the owners must do is show a bit of long term commitment and stability in the board room. That will filter down through the club.


Madejski was desperate for money and sold up to the first person that came along


The section in bold is untrue.

Edit: just seen this has been covered. As you were.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by WAZZOCK » 05 May 2018 22:02

From Despair To Where? Undoubtedly, it's just that we used to be a well run club with an identity and for the past 5 years we haven't been. As a club, we are rudderless. It starts from the top.

Not asking for miracles or bundles of cash, just that the current owners stick around for more than 5 minutes, show some leadership and reassert an identity for the club.

Madejski didn't understand football but he had people on board who did. He showed loyalty to people but if a change was needed, he usually acted pretty quickly. I don't think he would have waited til March to sack Stam (granted, he probably wouldn't have had the necessaries to apppoint him in the first place but that's another story).

Maybe that's what Gourlay's role is meant to be, that footballing brain who identifies when things are going wrong and acts decisively. If that's the case, he's not doing that well at the moment but who knows? However, rather than the knee jerk "Sack Gourlay" reaction, maybe it should be "(Re)Define his role". He's chief executive, he should be the owners' man on the ground and have the power to act on their behalf in their absence, it should be a powerful position, not be a glorified pa. He's worked at and been successful at enough clubs to know what to do but again, that all about leadership from the top down.

So no, the current owners are not to blame but they are absolutely the only people who can provide a solution. They just need the bollocks to take it on head on and do it properly so that we are not here in 2 years still asking the same questions.


Until last summer, it has always been Howe that has been running the club, I can assure you of that. When Madejski owned us he would more than happily be the face of the club, but it was always Howe who was trusted to make the informed decisions because Sir John trusted his judgement, and his track record for the most part was exemplary.

Gourlay is not a football man, he Is someone who has undertaken roles in the commercial side of business (not very well at all from what I've been told). Whilst he sat in a position of CEO at Chelsea, this was not a position that oversaw the footballing operations of the club. He had no experience of this prior to joining us, and it is glaringly obvious based on the direction he has taken the club in his short stint in charge. The one thing he has to his credit is clearly he can talk himself into strong positions of power, unfortunately he cannot walk the walk it seems.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Denver Royal » 05 May 2018 22:28

Wazzock, yeah, I'd heard Gourlay doesn't know a huge amount about footy. Not as much as you'd think, anyway. Not in a 'boots on the ground' sense. More corporate.

under the tin Alex Ferguson used to bang on about "strengthen when you're strongest".
I think that this philosophy has credence beyond just player recruitment.
When JM sold out, the stars were not aligned properly, and the club was taken over by what was probably a well intentioned Zingarevitch, whose problem was that he didn't actually have the cash to take the club forward, who also failed to attract new investors, so the club was saddled with borrowing.
So much for "due diligence" and "FPP", eh?
The debts that accrued naturally changed policy from running and growing a football club to simply trying to manage those debts in order to continue trading as a business.
Financial fire fighting ensued, and also changed the profile of potential suitors willing to clear up the mess.
It is now obvious to us all that the Thais were only interested in the real estate, and couldn't dump the club quick enough when they'd got hold of it. Club saved, but at a cost. God only knows why the Chinese bought in. Die hard royals fans? I somehow doubt that.

The Madejski years can be defined as a club on a mission.
The right people placed in the right management positions throughout the organization.
An up front leader. Focus. Direction. And when things/people went wrong, decisive action.
I don't get to feel too much of that these days from our club.


Good post. Interesting thoughts.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Franchise FC » 06 May 2018 06:52

Mid Sussex Royal Replacing Reid with Gilkes.

Having seen the impact of Reid within the Palace back room I think this i should the most important of our staff losses


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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Sutekh » 06 May 2018 09:00

WAZZOCK
From Despair To Where? Undoubtedly, it's just that we used to be a well run club with an identity and for the past 5 years we haven't been. As a club, we are rudderless. It starts from the top.

Not asking for miracles or bundles of cash, just that the current owners stick around for more than 5 minutes, show some leadership and reassert an identity for the club.

Madejski didn't understand football but he had people on board who did. He showed loyalty to people but if a change was needed, he usually acted pretty quickly. I don't think he would have waited til March to sack Stam (granted, he probably wouldn't have had the necessaries to apppoint him in the first place but that's another story).

Maybe that's what Gourlay's role is meant to be, that footballing brain who identifies when things are going wrong and acts decisively. If that's the case, he's not doing that well at the moment but who knows? However, rather than the knee jerk "Sack Gourlay" reaction, maybe it should be "(Re)Define his role". He's chief executive, he should be the owners' man on the ground and have the power to act on their behalf in their absence, it should be a powerful position, not be a glorified pa. He's worked at and been successful at enough clubs to know what to do but again, that all about leadership from the top down.

So no, the current owners are not to blame but they are absolutely the only people who can provide a solution. They just need the bollocks to take it on head on and do it properly so that we are not here in 2 years still asking the same questions.


Until last summer, it has always been Howe that has been running the club, I can assure you of that. When Madejski owned us he would more than happily be the face of the club, but it was always Howe who was trusted to make the informed decisions because Sir John trusted his judgement, and his track record for the most part was exemplary.

Gourlay is not a football man, he Is someone who has undertaken roles in the commercial side of business (not very well at all from what I've been told). Whilst he sat in a position of CEO at Chelsea, this was not a position that oversaw the footballing operations of the club. He had no experience of this prior to joining us, and it is glaringly obvious based on the direction he has taken the club in his short stint in charge. The one thing he has to his credit is clearly he can talk himself into strong positions of power, unfortunately he cannot walk the walk it seems.


All the same he can't be entirely naïve of the way it works and what it means to the club to put players on long contracts. If he is making those sorts of decisions for the first time then it's how quickly he can learn and adapt to making the right decisions. I would think that he must have some nous about him to hold that sort of management role in any business and the owners themselves run other football clubs and other business concerns successfully (it seems) so I doubt they'd let things go on too long if they felt a change was necessary.

One thing that is needed, and should have happened as soon as they took over, is for the owners to come out into the open and communicate directly to BBC Berks and/or the local press to set out their ambitions for the club and lay out the way they work so everyone understands what we have here.

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Re: Where does the blame lie ; not the Owners ?

by Hound » 06 May 2018 12:28

I think there is plenty that Gourlay could be criticised for

Blaming him for what is happening on the pitch is a bit of a stretch though. It’s just been rank bad management and coaching imo

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