Goodbye

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Re: Goodbye

by Royalwaster » 06 May 2018 22:13

Elm Park Kid wrote:I think it's important that we do consider the reasons for why the season was so bad. I mean, to an extent you do want to get forget it and move on but you want to deal with any problems that are still around.

- We didn't really have an ownership or budgeting issues this season. Ok, we didn't have millions to throw around but neither were we struggling.

- Stam didn't suddenly become an awful manager over night.

- We had some frustrating injuries but overall we weren't that unlucky with them.

So what was it? Personally I think it was a combination of pushing our luck by not having decent replacements in key positions and buying Aluko when arguably three 2.5m players would have been a better idea. Essentially, instead of rolling the dice and hoping for a 6 we should have recognised that we are a mid-table team and the moment and bought players accordingly.


Poor signings and Stam being found out for his terrible style of football - possession, possession, possession ... the other teams just pressed us high up the pitch and waited for us to make a mistake. Coupled with us lacking fire power up front it was a disaster waiting to happen. Whenever we went 1:0 down, we'd pretty much lost the game.

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Re: Goodbye

by Double d v2 » 07 May 2018 08:55

Silver Fox wrote:I can’t be alone in my disappointment in finding that this isn’t Sutekh flouncing?

Anyway, thank fook it’s over, enjoy the break, we’ll try again in August

.i thought he was flouncing. Nvm.

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Re: Goodbye

by Gunny Fishcake » 08 May 2018 09:07

Sutekh wrote:
Gunny Fishcake wrote:In my long time watching Reading , definitely worst season ever, yes we've had crap seasons before but we had teams that gave their all even though often outclassed. I can't recall a season when I simply couldn't be bothered if I missed a game or not due to the turgid boring sh*te we played all season. We've certainly had bigger dissapointments aka the Play Offs Final nightmares but as a season of 46 games this has been the worst.Roll on the new fixtures being published, no doubt we'll be away first and last game yet again !


Out of interest, over the last 24 seasons....

First game of the season

    HOME : 11 (W6, D3, L2)
    AWAY : 13 (W1, D6, L6)

Last game of the season

    HOME : 09 (W5, D2, L2)
    AWAY : 15 (W4, D3, L8)

Of the last 4 seasons, Reading have been at home once on the opening day of the season and on the last day of the season have been away every time.

And if anyone was wondering, in the last 24 seasons Reading have played 22 games on

Boxing Day

    HOME : 11 (W5, D5, L1)
    AWAY : 11 (W1, D5, L5)

Across those games, Reading’s most common opponents (all with 4 games) have been Cardiff, Derby, Birmingham and Stoke


Love you Sutekh, not literally, one of the pillars of HobNob, are you a Professor of Mathematics as a matter of interest ?

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Re: Goodbye

by Stranded » 08 May 2018 09:45

Just to give you an idea of how bad this division was this year and as a result, how lucky we have been to survive:

After the Cardiff 2-2 draw on 11th December, we stood 14th with a total of 27pts from 21 games

Despite only picking up a further 17pts from 25 games, we only dropped 6 places in the division.

The clubs that were involved on the last day relegation tussle, with points at the time (and points gained on us):

19, Brum 16pts ( 13pts)
20, Reading 27pts
21. Bolton 16pts (10pts)
22. Barnsley 20pts ( 4pts)
23. Burton 14pts (10pts)
24. Sunderland 15pts (5pts)

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Re: Goodbye

by Theroyalbox » 08 May 2018 09:48

I am concerned abut next season, I don't think Clement is the right man for the job and would much rather still have Stam in charge, as I think he probably had a better understanding with the squad.

But his results weren't good enough, I would still get rid of clement though


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Re: Goodbye

by Old Man Andrews » 08 May 2018 09:51

Theroyalbox wrote:I am concerned abut next season, I don't think Clement is the right man for the job and would much rather still have Stam in charge, as I think he probably had a better understanding with the squad.

But his results weren't good enough, I would still get rid of clement though


Get rid of him for being succesful in his primary task of keeping us in the division? The right man for the job was the man who would keep us up and undo some of the awful work Jaap Stam did. Clement did that and deserves the time to build his own team. Calling for his head now is ridiculous.

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Re: Goodbye

by Stranded » 08 May 2018 10:01

Theroyalbox wrote:I am concerned abut next season, I don't think Clement is the right man for the job and would much rather still have Stam in charge, as I think he probably had a better understanding with the squad.

But his results weren't good enough, I would still get rid of clement though


The "better understanding" with the squad would have seen us relegated - Stam's time is gone.

The only understanding Clement needs is which of these players he feels he can work with next season to get an improved performance out of them and then identify players he wants.

He has made it clear already his plan is to bring in players who will go straight into the first team and allow us to play attacking football. He did his job and now has the chance to improve the team both with signings and by imposing the way he truly wants to play on the team - not just the firefighting/damage limitation he has had to do so far.

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Re: Goodbye

by Forbury Lion » 08 May 2018 10:08

Jackson Corner wrote:well it’s been truly dreadful but it could have been hell of a lot worse. At least the curse of 8 has gone. The work starts now for Paul Clement. I would happily settle for mid table obscurity next season.
Curse of 8 has gone but curse of eight may still remain

Nineteen eightyeight
Nineteen ninetyeight
Two thousand and eight
Two thousand and eighteen

Which doesn't bode well for Two thousand and twentyeight

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Re: Goodbye

by Theroyalbox » 08 May 2018 10:29

Stranded wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:I am concerned abut next season, I don't think Clement is the right man for the job and would much rather still have Stam in charge, as I think he probably had a better understanding with the squad.

But his results weren't good enough, I would still get rid of clement though


The "better understanding" with the squad would have seen us relegated - Stam's time is gone.

The only understanding Clement needs is which of these players he feels he can work with next season to get an improved performance out of them and then identify players he wants.

He has made it clear already his plan is to bring in players who will go straight into the first team and allow us to play attacking football. He did his job and now has the chance to improve the team both with signings and by imposing the way he truly wants to play on the team - not just the firefighting/damage limitation he has had to do so far.


Okay his primary job was to keep us in the division, but looking back on the season, I think Stam would've done that anyway. We have had some quite woeful performances under clement and I just think he is not the right man to take us forward. I don't think we've actually played well once under his regime?


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Re: Goodbye

by Stranded » 08 May 2018 10:41

Theroyalbox wrote:
Stranded wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:I am concerned abut next season, I don't think Clement is the right man for the job and would much rather still have Stam in charge, as I think he probably had a better understanding with the squad.

But his results weren't good enough, I would still get rid of clement though


The "better understanding" with the squad would have seen us relegated - Stam's time is gone.

The only understanding Clement needs is which of these players he feels he can work with next season to get an improved performance out of them and then identify players he wants.

He has made it clear already his plan is to bring in players who will go straight into the first team and allow us to play attacking football. He did his job and now has the chance to improve the team both with signings and by imposing the way he truly wants to play on the team - not just the firefighting/damage limitation he has had to do so far.


Okay his primary job was to keep us in the division, but looking back on the season, I think Stam would've done that anyway. We have had some quite woeful performances under clement and I just think he is not the right man to take us forward. I don't think we've actually played well once under his regime?


I admire your confidence but there was nothing in the way we were playing that would suggest we would have picked up the 8 points we have under Clement under Stam. We were sleepwalking to relegation.

Have we played well under Clement, no we haven't, but he took over a team with 1 win in 19 games and managed to get them to keep 3 clean sheets and hold on to win 2 games 1-0. No manager coming in was ever going to get this shitshow playing well especially given there was no time to work on much as games came think and fast.

He found a way to win 2 game and get 2 draws all with a team so mentally shot that the 4-0 result against Ipswich happened.

He is talking about playing attacking football next year that will be good for fans to watch, so lets see what happens. He has amazing contacts in the game, so hopefully we will see some very decent signings and a much better balance to the squad. If by November things are dull and we aren't picking up points then judge him them but now is so so premature it's almost funny.

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Re: Goodbye

by Theroyalbox » 08 May 2018 10:57

Stranded wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:
Stranded wrote:
The "better understanding" with the squad would have seen us relegated - Stam's time is gone.

The only understanding Clement needs is which of these players he feels he can work with next season to get an improved performance out of them and then identify players he wants.

He has made it clear already his plan is to bring in players who will go straight into the first team and allow us to play attacking football. He did his job and now has the chance to improve the team both with signings and by imposing the way he truly wants to play on the team - not just the firefighting/damage limitation he has had to do so far.


Okay his primary job was to keep us in the division, but looking back on the season, I think Stam would've done that anyway. We have had some quite woeful performances under clement and I just think he is not the right man to take us forward. I don't think we've actually played well once under his regime?


I admire your confidence but there was nothing in the way we were playing that would suggest we would have picked up the 8 points we have under Clement under Stam. We were sleepwalking to relegation.

Have we played well under Clement, no we haven't, but he took over a team with 1 win in 19 games and managed to get them to keep 3 clean sheets and hold on to win 2 games 1-0. No manager coming in was ever going to get this shitshow playing well especially given there was no time to work on much as games came think and fast.

He found a way to win 2 game and get 2 draws all with a team so mentally shot that the 4-0 result against Ipswich happened.

He is talking about playing attacking football next year that will be good for fans to watch, so lets see what happens. He has amazing contacts in the game, so hopefully we will see some very decent signings and a much better balance to the squad. If by November things are dull and we aren't picking up points then judge him them but now is so so premature it's almost funny.


I'm not necessarily trying to judge him now, maybe im not communicating my point right, but our performances under him have been awful not giving me much confidence for next year, and I don't think it would be right to praise him for keeping us up. I think anyone would've done to be honest.

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Re: Goodbye

by Stranded » 08 May 2018 11:46

Theroyalbox wrote:
I'm not necessarily trying to judge him now, maybe im not communicating my point right, but our performances under him have been awful not giving me much confidence for next year, and I don't think it would be right to praise him for keeping us up. I think anyone would've done to be honest.


Ok, let me ask you a different question. Who do you think could have come in and got us playing good football, with minimal training sessions given the scenario he took over?

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Re: Goodbye

by Forbury Lion » 08 May 2018 11:58

Stranded wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:
I'm not necessarily trying to judge him now, maybe im not communicating my point right, but our performances under him have been awful not giving me much confidence for next year, and I don't think it would be right to praise him for keeping us up. I think anyone would've done to be honest.


Ok, let me ask you a different question. Who do you think could have come in and got us playing good football, with minimal training sessions given the scenario he took over?
Maybe worth adjusting the criteria from good football to winning football - We were in need of points short term more than anything else - I'd have taken long ball tactics and boring 1-0 wins until we were safe.


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Re: Goodbye

by Stranded » 08 May 2018 12:07

Forbury Lion wrote:
Stranded wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:
I'm not necessarily trying to judge him now, maybe im not communicating my point right, but our performances under him have been awful not giving me much confidence for next year, and I don't think it would be right to praise him for keeping us up. I think anyone would've done to be honest.


Ok, let me ask you a different question. Who do you think could have come in and got us playing good football, with minimal training sessions given the scenario he took over?
Maybe worth adjusting the criteria from good football to winning football - We were in need of points short term more than anything else - I'd have taken long ball tactics and boring 1-0 wins until we were safe.


That was kind of my point. Playing well wasn't in the remit for Clement this season, getting enough points to get us over the line was. We know now that he managed that in his first 2 home games.

Improvement to the playing style was only ever going to come after a pre-season.

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Re: Goodbye

by Snowball » 08 May 2018 13:46

Theroyalbox wrote:


I'm not necessarily trying to judge him now, maybe im not communicating my point right, but our performances under him have been awful not giving me much confidence for next year, and I don't think it would be right to praise him for keeping us up. I think anyone would've done to be honest.



Very unfair IMO

8 Games, starting with zero morale.

We have played away to the clubs finishing 2nd and 3rd and 4th in the league

Sure in one game we had a poor defeat, but we played well at Fulham
and put in a brave, dogged performance at Cardiff when most of the pundits
here were betting on us losing 4-0 or 5-0

We beat QPR and Preston when the majority thought we would lose

We got back to draw 2-2 with Sunderland, showing fight.

In those eight games we had FOUR sendings-off. That coupled with injuries
tied Clements hands rather a fair bit.

The game at Wednesday WAS poor, no arguments, but though the eventual RESULT
was awful at home to Ipswich, we had done well up to the sudden collapse and should have been ahead

With 8 games to go, We would have bitten the hand off any manager
who could guarantee W2 D2 L4. The set up wasn't looking to be pretty,
it was "Get enough points to stay up". We did, and though it may be
hard to see it right now, the manager, the team DID "turn it round"
over those last eight games

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Re: Goodbye

by Theroyalbox » 08 May 2018 14:04

Snowball wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:


I'm not necessarily trying to judge him now, maybe im not communicating my point right, but our performances under him have been awful not giving me much confidence for next year, and I don't think it would be right to praise him for keeping us up. I think anyone would've done to be honest.



Very unfair IMO

8 Games, starting with zero morale.

We have played away to the clubs finishing 2nd and 3rd and 4th in the league

Sure in one game we had a poor defeat, but we played well at Fulham
and put in a brave, dogged performance at Cardiff when most of the pundits
here were betting on us losing 4-0 or 5-0

We beat QPR and Preston when the majority thought we would lose

We got back to draw 2-2 with Sunderland, showing fight.

In those eight games we had FOUR sendings-off. That coupled with injuries
tied Clements hands rather a fair bit.

The game at Wednesday WAS poor, no arguments, but though the eventual RESULT
was awful at home to Ipswich, we had done well up to the sudden collapse and should have been ahead

With 8 games to go, We would have bitten the hand off any manager
who could guarantee W2 D2 L4. The set up wasn't looking to be pretty,
it was "Get enough points to stay up". We did, and though it may be
hard to see it right now, the manager, the team DID "turn it round"
over those last eight games


I totally see your point of view, but I don't think they did 'turn it around' at all if anything I think in terms of style of play we have gone back some steps. I appreciate he got the points we needed, but I also think Stam would've got them and we would've been in a better position for next year. Perhaps I am wrong though.

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Re: Goodbye

by Hound » 08 May 2018 14:16

we've looked pretty crap under PC, but there has definitely been more fight

anyway, job done, though it was far from pretty. To be fair, pretty much everything he has done in terms of team selection, tactics and comments off the pitch seem pretty spot on (bar a little bit of a habit to refer to his own achievements which might become annoying)

Pre-season is huge for the team, and I think he knows it

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Re: Goodbye

by Snowflake Royal » 08 May 2018 18:24

Theroyalbox wrote:
Stranded wrote:
Theroyalbox wrote:I am concerned abut next season, I don't think Clement is the right man for the job and would much rather still have Stam in charge, as I think he probably had a better understanding with the squad.

But his results weren't good enough, I would still get rid of clement though


The "better understanding" with the squad would have seen us relegated - Stam's time is gone.

The only understanding Clement needs is which of these players he feels he can work with next season to get an improved performance out of them and then identify players he wants.

He has made it clear already his plan is to bring in players who will go straight into the first team and allow us to play attacking football. He did his job and now has the chance to improve the team both with signings and by imposing the way he truly wants to play on the team - not just the firefighting/damage limitation he has had to do so far.


Okay his primary job was to keep us in the division, but looking back on the season, I think Stam would've done that anyway. We have had some quite woeful performances under clement and I just think he is not the right man to take us forward. I don't think we've actually played well once under his regime?


Clement had an immediate impact with far improved performances against QPR and Preston, even if we didn't actually offer much going forward and were under the cosh a lot... the fight was back.

Clement's 8 games: W2, D2, L4 - 1.00 ppg
Stam's last 8 games: W0, D4, L4 - 0.50 ppg
Stam's last 16 games: W1, D6, L9 - 0.56 ppg

I admire your confidence that Stam would have kept us up, but it's hard to see him having picked up as many points as Clement the way things were going. And remember, without one of those early Clement wins, we're much closer to going and the other teams below us have an easier job and more confidence of doing it. I've not even tried to cherry pick the sample size, just the same as Clement and double Clement.

There's certainly an argument for trying to bring Clement in on a contract til the end of the season and then re-evaluate. But we didn't. Sacking him now would be shameful and yet another example of shambolic management of the club. He did what he had to do, style and quality irrelevant. Now he needs at least 20 games into next season to show what he can do with a pre-season and some of his own signings, baring in mind the squad is an absolute omni-shambles. And realistically he needs another 18 months bar disasters.

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Re: Goodbye

by Ascotexgunner » 08 May 2018 19:09

I'm expecting pretty much the same next year. Clement did his job of keeping us up, but from here he's the wrong man and I'll keep reiterating that point. He may of kept Swansea up but what then? New season, lost 10 in 13.
At Derby they ditched him after 7 months..a good start, but then his team fell to bits when it mattered. The football went bad and the fans and owners got upset. I just don't think he has that winning mentality.
If he does turn this around I look forward to being slaughtered by you all.

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Re: Goodbye

by Double d v2 » 08 May 2018 19:14

Clement got us 1 point per game.

If that is the case next season (highly doubt it), we will be in the exact same position as this season :lol:

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