MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Snowball » 20 Aug 2018 16:26

Hound wrote:
Snowball wrote:For the most part I thought McShane had a decent game
but he was caught horribly for the goal.

Looking on Whoscored he won as many headers as Wheater, 3 more than Moore

The flat-footed error LOOKED horrible, but Swift failed to challenge for the midfield
error, Moore moved out of shape and was thus nowhere

Who scored rated McShane our best player, and Kelly edged Swift

7.0 McShane
6.8 Mannone, Kelly, Moore
6.7 Swift, Meite
6.4 Blackett
6.3 Yiadom, Baldock
6.2 Meyler
5.9 McNulty


Giving McShane 7 and Moore 6.8 utterly blows any credibility Whoscored may currently have



I thought people were saying the defence WASN'T the problem? We gave away three chances in 90 minutes

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2018 17:04

Snowball wrote:I thought people were saying the defence WASN'T the problem?

It really wasn't. People posting McShane didn't win a header all game, then the stats show otherwise, but 'they aren't credible'. Defence has been the least of our worries. They have kept us in every game and given us a chance. Derby, Forest, and Bolton had few chances, shots on goal, etc. Mannone has had very little to do. As I said, if we had won 3-1, nobody would be talking about the defence (or shouldn't be).

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Hound » 20 Aug 2018 17:50

That’s such a basic way of looking at it

The defence completely is a big problem (if not ‘the’ problem) because under the smallest amount of pressure they cave in and concede a simple chance. To say the defence has been keeping us in games is laughable. Bolton had another in a similar vein where they created a 1 on 1 out of absolutely nothing

Bolton’s defence on the other hand basically had their backs to the wall for the entire match and conceded the same number of chances.

We’ve conceded in every league game so far. In each game we’ve been looking the ‘better team’. You simply can’t do that.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2018 17:57

You can't if you don't score goals. We've scored one goal in 3 games. A 3-1 win would have been nice. Help the defense out a bit. Even a clean sheet and 0-0 would have been a poor result.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 20 Aug 2018 17:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Hound » 20 Aug 2018 17:58

3 clean sheets and it would have been at least 5 points


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2018 17:59

Hound wrote:
Snowball wrote:For the most part I thought McShane had a decent game
but he was caught horribly for the goal.

Looking on Whoscored he won as many headers as Wheater, 3 more than Moore

The flat-footed error LOOKED horrible, but Swift failed to challenge for the midfield
error, Moore moved out of shape and was thus nowhere

Who scored rated McShane our best player, and Kelly edged Swift

7.0 McShane
6.8 Mannone, Kelly, Moore
6.7 Swift, Meite
6.4 Blackett
6.3 Yiadom, Baldock
6.2 Meyler
5.9 McNulty


Giving McShane 7 and Moore 6.8 utterly blows any credibility Whoscored may currently have

Only if you fail to understand what whoscored is actually measuring.

It simply can't account for poor positioning, running down blind allies and dribbling a pass backwards or sideways to no effect.

McShane was very involved and he did pull off some important challenges, plus he had our third most touches. It's always going to rate that well. That's why you've got to use your eyes and judgement as well rather than rely solely on stats. Let the stats challenge or support your view, don't believe they prove any value judgement, just that certain things happened.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Hound » 20 Aug 2018 18:02

Yeah get that but couldn’t be bothered to type the lot out

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2018 18:04

Clean sheets in every game? You aren't asking for much. Nobody in the entire league has had that.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Hound » 20 Aug 2018 18:09

Denver Royal wrote:Clean sheets in every game? You aren't asking for much. Nobody in the entire league has had that.


I didn’t ask for it in every game, just pointed out our points total if we had

A clean sheet in 1 league game would be a start. And hardly an outrageous demand


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2018 18:25

Hound wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:Clean sheets in every game? You aren't asking for much. Nobody in the entire league has had that.

I didn’t ask for it in every game, just pointed out our points total if we had.

Yeah, it was your hypothesis (a proposed explanation for a phenomenon). And, an unlikely one, since nobody has accomplished it, let alone a bottom club.
We've conceded 4 goals, which I think would currently put us in about 8th place in a table of 'goals against'(?)
We've scored once. Guess where that puts us in a table?
If we had got that 'one shutout' on Sat and drawn 0-0, it's still a poor result, no?
We could say a shutout at Forest (no mean feat) nets another 0-0 and 1 point.
So the only game a shutout would have been most valuable is the first game.

Then there's our business. We bought McNulty. We bought Baldock. We kept Meite from going out on loan. And, our latest signing, Sims. (None of them have scored yet). On defence, the only real addition was Yiadom, on a free. (You yourself have said O'Shea won't play much).

So, this may indicate that Clement saw our biggest weakness was Offence. (Of course, his first clue of that may have been last season, when in his 8 games we scored 3 goals, + a pen).
Last edited by Denver Royal on 20 Aug 2018 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2018 18:38

Denver Royal wrote:
Hound wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:Clean sheets in every game? You aren't asking for much. Nobody in the entire league has had that.

I didn’t ask for it in every game, just pointed out our points total if we had.

Yeah, it was your hypothesis (a proposed explanation for a phenomenon). And, an unlikely one, since nobody has accomplished it, let alone a bottom club.
We've conceded 4 goals, which I think would currently put us in about 8th place in a table of 'goals against'.
If we had got that 'one shutout' on Sat and drawn 0-0, it's still a poor result, no?

I hate 'shutout' it's so classlessly american.

The thing to factor in is that we have only conceded one goal that wasn't a poor defensive error, and even that shouldn't have happened if we'd stayed focused to the whistle.

And we gave Bolton a chance they should have scored first half too.

So far no one has actively beaten us, but we've lost games anyway.

And that's the big worry, because we saw how complacent and incapable of turning around bad form this side is last year. And two of the three before that.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2018 18:42

Well, Derby first goal was Mannone. Their 2nd was a peach, and not really down to individual errors, imo. (Although I did say Richards may have done better defending the cross out wide).

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2018 18:45

Denver Royal wrote:Well, Derby first goal was Mannone. Their 2nd was a peach, and not really down to individual errors, imo. (Although I did say Richards may have done better defending the cross out wide).

I include goalkeeping errors in defensive. The second was an anomalie, but you don't let someone do that from a throw at halfway with 30 seconds left. You just don't.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Hound » 20 Aug 2018 20:09

I agree our defence shouldn’t be our weakness. Yiadom, Moore, Ilori and Obita if he gets back to his previous level is as good as any in the division imo

That’s why it’s so disappointing to concede the goals we have (and to have had first the Moore situation then the McShane selection)

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Bolton Wanderers (h) sponsored by Notlob is Bolton backwards

by Denver Royal » 21 Aug 2018 02:50

Noticed you have our Offence being shut out yet again, in predicting a 2-0 defeat vs just promoted Blackburn?

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