BFTG - Weds H

[Old Man Andrews]

For those of you criticising the signings of players like McNulty and Baldock, or of the love for Meite.

I just want you to have a think about what's wrong with our players. They're gutless, negative, lethargic and apathetic.

None of those things describe our two new strikers or Meite.

Our biggest problem is player attitude. So oxf*rd the likes of Gunter, Meyler, Bacuna, Aluko. Play the ones that run. That try. That move. That have an ounce of positivity.

Until the playing staff and attitude change it doesn't matter who is in charge. We're doomed.

Our problems are typified by the lack of first time or early passes and crosses into the front two. Baldock actually breaks the lines and finds space very well, but the ball is almost never played up early to his feet.

So often a winger, midfielder or fullback plays a poorly weighted pass to a winger or fullback only for them to take three touches rather than just whip a ball in early.

It's the early pass / shot / cross that defenders can't cope with. They're off balance, unprepared, not set. By the time we do anything opposition defences are in perfect position because we're not playing by instinct.

Managers can tell players to do it. They can coach players to do it. But they can't make players do it.

Stop making me agree with everything you're saying it is making me feel uneasy.

Clement is going to walk soon in my opinion for the reason you pointed out, he is realising he is helpless with the current crop of wasters he has to work with.

[Snowflake Royal]

Any moron that sees relegation as good, or a chance to rebuild is a bloody idiot.

It is nothing other than a complete and utter disaster.

These same morons seem to think it's a one season visit to league one. Not sure why, absolutely no guarantee we would come back up. For 20ish years Reading have been playing in the top two tiers. That has had an immense impact on the clubs stature. It's made us into an established championship team.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the position.

Firstly, relegation seems pretty inevitable sooner or later right now. Secondly, no one takes it for granted we'll bounce straight back. In fact at this point it's extremely unlikely.

I've said all along its better to go straight down and break the cycle of shit rather than spending 5 years narrowly avoiding the inevitable and getting stuck in a cycle of losing constantly. Many people thought I was mad, well sadly we're most of the way towards doing the latter and seeing why I wanted to avoid it at all costs. Going down is not the end of the world. It may be extremely damaging, but if you're committed to the club long term then you'll likely see and enjoy us recover.

At the end of the day, we go to watch Reading FC and want to see them win. What division it's in is important, but not more important than winning. Most of those who stick by the side and continue to go will be happier seeing 20 wins a season in League One than seeing 12 wins a season in the Championship.

Whilst I see some logic in that there are plenty of teams who manage to sort out their problems without going down, so that is preferable.

My concern should we go down, is will we be a Blackburn, sort the issues and come back or would be a Charlton, Coventry etc where issues pervading the club are not sorted and we begin to stagnate in L1 or lower.

Certainly clubs can turn it around without relegation. Don't see even the slightest hint we'll manage that. And the longer we stay a mess fighting relegation in the Champ, the harder it becomes to turn it around in League One and the more likely tge stagnation you're worried about and a slip into L2 becomes.

As far as I'm concerned, we've already been relegated. Whether it's confirmed in May 19, 20 or 21 I think it's become inevitable.

In fact, I'd say I'm far more likely to pick up a season ticket next year if we go down than if we finish 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 again. I can't take this much longer.

[Stranded]

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the position.

Firstly, relegation seems pretty inevitable sooner or later right now. Secondly, no one takes it for granted we'll bounce straight back. In fact at this point it's extremely unlikely.

I've said all along its better to go straight down and break the cycle of shit rather than spending 5 years narrowly avoiding the inevitable and getting stuck in a cycle of losing constantly. Many people thought I was mad, well sadly we're most of the way towards doing the latter and seeing why I wanted to avoid it at all costs. Going down is not the end of the world. It may be extremely damaging, but if you're committed to the club long term then you'll likely see and enjoy us recover.

At the end of the day, we go to watch Reading FC and want to see them win. What division it's in is important, but not more important than winning. Most of those who stick by the side and continue to go will be happier seeing 20 wins a season in League One than seeing 12 wins a season in the Championship.

Whilst I see some logic in that there are plenty of teams who manage to sort out their problems without going down, so that is preferable.

My concern should we go down, is will we be a Blackburn, sort the issues and come back or would be a Charlton, Coventry etc where issues pervading the club are not sorted and we begin to stagnate in L1 or lower.

Certainly clubs can turn it around without relegation. Don't see even the slightest hint we'll manage that. And the longer we stay a mess fighting relegation in the Champ, the harder it becomes to turn it around in League One and the more likely tge stagnation you're worried about and a slip into L2 becomes.

As far as I'm concerned, we've already been relegated. Whether it's confirmed in May 19, 20 or 21 I think it's become inevitable.

In fact, I'd say I'm far more likely to pick up a season ticket next year if we go down than if we finish 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 again. I can't take this much longer.

Whilst I can sympathise with that view, I can only hope we get our house in order at this level - as it stands, the only hope I think we have is to team up the new signings, who aren't yet tarred by the same brush with some of the younger players who are used to winning at U23 level. For a lot of the others, this is now the norm and it won't change with them at the club.

Believe we made a massive miscalculation in not selling Moore and using that money to refresh the squad further - would have paid up a few contracts as well.

[NewCorkSeth]

For those of you criticising the signings of players like McNulty and Baldock, or of the love for Meite.

I just want you to have a think about what's wrong with our players. They're gutless, negative, lethargic and apathetic.

None of those things describe our two new strikers or Meite.

Our biggest problem is player attitude. So oxf*rd the likes of Gunter, Meyler, Bacuna, Aluko. Play the ones that run. That try. That move. That have an ounce of positivity.

Until the playing staff and attitude change it doesn't matter who is in charge. We're doomed.

Our problems are typified by the lack of first time or early passes and crosses into the front two. Baldock actually breaks the lines and finds space very well, but the ball is almost never played up early to his feet.

So often a winger, midfielder or fullback plays a poorly weighted pass to a winger or fullback only for them to take three touches rather than just whip a ball in early.

It's the early pass / shot / cross that defenders can't cope with. They're off balance, unprepared, not set. By the time we do anything opposition defences are in perfect position because we're not playing by instinct.

Managers can tell players to do it. They can coach players to do it. But they can't make players do it.

Harsh to include Bacuna in that. He's clearly been asked by the manager to slow things down and look for a simple pass. I honestly think he's let down by those around him.

My issue with our new strike force is that their energy isn't exactly what we were missing. Bodvarson runs all day. We had a high energy/low conversion striker. Baldock has actually been ok as a secondary striker flicking things on or trying to hold them up but he's been abysmal in his attacking movement and finishing.

I like Meite but he's more of a winger in my view. I think we would be better served playing him on the right wing and playing long balls at him to win with and AMC inside to try pick passes forward and Barrow hugging the left hand side. Bod has shown he can handle playing out wide so is perfect in that forward role to both create and attack.

[NewCorkSeth]

Whilst I see some logic in that there are plenty of teams who manage to sort out their problems without going down, so that is preferable.

My concern should we go down, is will we be a Blackburn, sort the issues and come back or would be a Charlton, Coventry etc where issues pervading the club are not sorted and we begin to stagnate in L1 or lower.

Certainly clubs can turn it around without relegation. Don't see even the slightest hint we'll manage that. And the longer we stay a mess fighting relegation in the Champ, the harder it becomes to turn it around in League One and the more likely tge stagnation you're worried about and a slip into L2 becomes.

As far as I'm concerned, we've already been relegated. Whether it's confirmed in May 19, 20 or 21 I think it's become inevitable.

In fact, I'd say I'm far more likely to pick up a season ticket next year if we go down than if we finish 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 again. I can't take this much longer.

Whilst I can sympathise with that view, I can only hope we get our house in order at this level - as it stands, the only hope I think we have is to team up the new signings, who aren't yet tarred by the same brush with some of the younger players who are used to winning at U23 level. For a lot of the others, this is now the norm and it won't change with them at the club.

Believe we made a massive miscalculation in not selling Moore and using that money to refresh the squad further - would have paid up a few contracts as well.

I doubt we could adequately supplement the squad and pay up contracts (provided the player agrees to it) for 10 million..

[Snowflake Royal]

We could easily have replaced Moore and brought in another player for less than £10m and used Moore's new bumper contract plus what's left over of his fee to fund the wages.

That's an extra two players not used to losing and not part of the current malaise. I agree with Stranded, it could have helped tip the balance.

[NewCorkSeth]

We could easily have replaced Moore and brought in another player for less than £10m and used Moore's new bumper contract plus what's left over of his fee to fund the wages.

That's an extra two players not used to losing and not part of the current malaise. I agree with Stranded, it could have helped tip the balance.

You think? What players of Moore's ability moved for less than 10 million this summer? Any tested championship players? And which position would you have prioritised? Winger I presume and I can't think of a single winger who would come to us that would cost half of 10 million. They might exist but can you name one?

[Snowflake Royal]

We could easily have replaced Moore and brought in another player for less than £10m and used Moore's new bumper contract plus what's left over of his fee to fund the wages.

That's an extra two players not used to losing and not part of the current malaise. I agree with Stranded, it could have helped tip the balance.

You think? What players of Moore's ability moved for less than 10 million this summer? Any tested championship players? And which position would you have prioritised? Winger I presume and I can't think of a single winger who would come to us that would cost half of 10 million. They might exist but can you name one?

Who said they had to be of Moore's ability?
Midfielder. I'd just stop playing wingers entirely seeing as we don't have many good ones.

[NewCorkSeth]

We could easily have replaced Moore and brought in another player for less than £10m and used Moore's new bumper contract plus what's left over of his fee to fund the wages.

That's an extra two players not used to losing and not part of the current malaise. I agree with Stranded, it could have helped tip the balance.

You think? What players of Moore's ability moved for less than 10 million this summer? Any tested championship players? And which position would you have prioritised? Winger I presume and I can't think of a single winger who would come to us that would cost half of 10 million. They might exist but can you name one?

Who said they had to be of Moore's ability?
Midfielder. I'd just stop playing wingers entirely seeing as we don't have many good ones.

Lol. Fair enough.

I just don't think downgrading a defence to potentially (as you never know how a new signing will turn out - like Meyler) upgrade your midfield, when you're in the precarious position we find ourselves in, is a good idea.

I think Moore and Barrow are the only assets we have left to sell (as I can't think of many teams coming in for most our other players) so we should be looking to supplement them rather than replace them.

[Maneki Neko]

genuinely enjoyed Saturday ,
my first game of the season, and while it was obvious where our issues (still)lay (powderpuff midfield, lethargy and mental weakness due to lack of confidence and fragile mentality from not winning for ages) I thought there were some signs that we could get out of it.

very much liked clements subs, and how we played after they came on, and his interview after the game.

think we were unlucky to concede the 1st, in that it was against the run of play, and If we hadn't let them walk through us 10 seconds into the 2nd half I think it would have been a very different result.

no point in getting rid of clement right now imo. should get at least until the start of December. he and the players just need to pull together, develop a togetherness and put in some graft to turn things around.

looked like yiadom and sims are good summer additions

[CountryRoyal]

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the position.

Firstly, relegation seems pretty inevitable sooner or later right now. Secondly, no one takes it for granted we'll bounce straight back. In fact at this point it's extremely unlikely.

I've said all along its better to go straight down and break the cycle of shit rather than spending 5 years narrowly avoiding the inevitable and getting stuck in a cycle of losing constantly. Many people thought I was mad, well sadly we're most of the way towards doing the latter and seeing why I wanted to avoid it at all costs. Going down is not the end of the world. It may be extremely damaging, but if you're committed to the club long term then you'll likely see and enjoy us recover.

At the end of the day, we go to watch Reading FC and want to see them win. What division it's in is important, but not more important than winning. Most of those who stick by the side and continue to go will be happier seeing 20 wins a season in League One than seeing 12 wins a season in the Championship.

Whilst I see some logic in that there are plenty of teams who manage to sort out their problems without going down, so that is preferable.

My concern should we go down, is will we be a Blackburn, sort the issues and come back or would be a Charlton, Coventry etc where issues pervading the club are not sorted and we begin to stagnate in L1 or lower.

Certainly clubs can turn it around without relegation. Don't see even the slightest hint we'll manage that. And the longer we stay a mess fighting relegation in the Champ, the harder it becomes to turn it around in League One and the more likely tge stagnation you're worried about and a slip into L2 becomes.

As far as I'm concerned, we've already been relegated. Whether it's confirmed in May 19, 20 or 21 I think it's become inevitable.

In fact, I'd say I'm far more likely to pick up a season ticket next year if we go down than if we finish 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 again. I can't take this much longer.

+1

I’ve already accepted it tbh.

[Stranded]

Certainly clubs can turn it around without relegation. Don't see even the slightest hint we'll manage that. And the longer we stay a mess fighting relegation in the Champ, the harder it becomes to turn it around in League One and the more likely tge stagnation you're worried about and a slip into L2 becomes.

As far as I'm concerned, we've already been relegated. Whether it's confirmed in May 19, 20 or 21 I think it's become inevitable.

In fact, I'd say I'm far more likely to pick up a season ticket next year if we go down than if we finish 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 again. I can't take this much longer.

Whilst I can sympathise with that view, I can only hope we get our house in order at this level - as it stands, the only hope I think we have is to team up the new signings, who aren't yet tarred by the same brush with some of the younger players who are used to winning at U23 level. For a lot of the others, this is now the norm and it won't change with them at the club.

Believe we made a massive miscalculation in not selling Moore and using that money to refresh the squad further - would have paid up a few contracts as well.

I doubt we could adequately supplement the squad and pay up contracts (provided the player agrees to it) for 10 million..

Maybe not pay up the contracts but certainly strengthened the squad further. The defence currently doesn't look any better or worse with him in there. Sell him and spend say 4m or an up and coming replacement. Then use the other 6m to improve the midfield. We certainly wouldn't be any worse.

This is by no means a slight on Moore who is a consistantly good performer but I think as a club we would have been better placed taking the money this summer.

[Snowflake Royal]

You think? What players of Moore's ability moved for less than 10 million this summer? Any tested championship players? And which position would you have prioritised? Winger I presume and I can't think of a single winger who would come to us that would cost half of 10 million. They might exist but can you name one?

Who said they had to be of Moore's ability?
Midfielder. I'd just stop playing wingers entirely seeing as we don't have many good ones.

Lol. Fair enough.

I just don't think downgrading a defence to potentially (as you never know how a new signing will turn out - like Meyler) upgrade your midfield, when you're in the precarious position we find ourselves in, is a good idea.

I think Moore and Barrow are the only assets we have left to sell (as I can't think of many teams coming in for most our other players) so we should be looking to supplement them rather than replace them.

I'd very happily sell Barrow for £5m+ he might be decent in attack, but not enough to make up for the damage he does to the side in being woefully incapable of supporting his full back. And he was frankly atrocious on Saturday.

[NewCorkSeth]

Whilst I can sympathise with that view, I can only hope we get our house in order at this level - as it stands, the only hope I think we have is to team up the new signings, who aren't yet tarred by the same brush with some of the younger players who are used to winning at U23 level. For a lot of the others, this is now the norm and it won't change with them at the club.

Believe we made a massive miscalculation in not selling Moore and using that money to refresh the squad further - would have paid up a few contracts as well.

I doubt we could adequately supplement the squad and pay up contracts (provided the player agrees to it) for 10 million..

Maybe not pay up the contracts but certainly strengthened the squad further. The defence currently doesn't look any better or worse with him in there. Sell him and spend say 4m or an up and coming replacement. Then use the other 6m to improve the midfield. We certainly wouldn't be any worse.

This is by no means a slight on Moore who is a consistantly good performer but I think as a club we would have been better placed taking the money this summer.

I just find it interesting that almost everyone is in agreement that the squad is bloated. Selling our best player and buying in 3 increases the bloat without guaranteeing success.

If we sold Moore for 10 million then bought in 3 players for 10 million (this is assuming we received 10 million up front and that the board gave all that money back for transfers) then we are losing our best player, increasing squad numbers and increasing the wage bill without any idea whether it would work or not. That's a huge risk.

[NewCorkSeth]

Who said they had to be of Moore's ability?
Midfielder. I'd just stop playing wingers entirely seeing as we don't have many good ones.

Lol. Fair enough.

I just don't think downgrading a defence to potentially (as you never know how a new signing will turn out - like Meyler) upgrade your midfield, when you're in the precarious position we find ourselves in, is a good idea.

I think Moore and Barrow are the only assets we have left to sell (as I can't think of many teams coming in for most our other players) so we should be looking to supplement them rather than replace them.

I'd very happily sell Barrow for £5m+ he might be decent in attack, but not enough to make up for the damage he does to the side in being woefully incapable of supporting his full back. And he was frankly atrocious on Saturday.

He wasn't good true. Think he looked injured or unfit. He certainly wasn't running as fast as he can.

I think he offers better defensive support than Aluko does (not hard) but what he offers in attack is just too valuable.

I think 5 is probably a fair price tbh. But I wouldn't trust our management to replace Moore and Barrow well for 15 million.

[sandman]

We could have kept Novakovich here as our striker "who may come good but needs to make a big step up" and used some of the money saved to fund a better striker than McNulty a player "who may come good but needs to make a big step up" But then someone wouldn't get his money from his Dutch mates.

As Clement alluded to on Saturday, we could have offloaded some of our bloated squad that the Chinese, the fat controller and the double Dutchmen signed for stupid money and on even more stupid contracts we could have used the money have a smaller squad with hopefully better quality of players.

When this club was successful we had an owner who freely said he knew nothing about football so he appointed people that did. The manager picked the players he wanted and Hammond and Howe would try and make it fit the budget. Now we have people behind the scenes with very little experience at this level who think they know far more than they do. Now you could include the manager in the people with very little experience at this level. But he's the only one of them that A. Talks to the media and therefore the fans and B. Talks any sense.

Frankly, from the day Leigertwood was booed and Brian was ultimately sacked some fans have now got what they deserve. How's their "better football so we can survive when we get to promoted back to the Premier League" working out?

[Snowflake Royal]

I doubt we could adequately supplement the squad and pay up contracts (provided the player agrees to it) for 10 million..

Maybe not pay up the contracts but certainly strengthened the squad further. The defence currently doesn't look any better or worse with him in there. Sell him and spend say 4m or an up and coming replacement. Then use the other 6m to improve the midfield. We certainly wouldn't be any worse.

This is by no means a slight on Moore who is a consistantly good performer but I think as a club we would have been better placed taking the money this summer.

I just find it interesting that almost everyone is in agreement that the squad is bloated. Selling our best player and buying in 3 increases the bloat without guaranteeing success.

If we sold Moore for 10 million then bought in 3 players for 10 million (this is assuming we received 10 million up front and that the board gave all that money back for transfers) then we are losing our best player, increasing squad numbers and increasing the wage bill without any idea whether it would work or not. That's a huge risk.

Basically, you can't do anything about the bloat, you just have to wait for contracts to expire. So you tell them all to oxf*rd off and train as a satellite bloat group and hope they get so oxf*rd off they go and find someone daft enough to take them away and cut your wage bill. In the mean time, you focus on a tight group of players you actually want.

[Snowflake Royal]

I've noticed a few people complain about Aluko bottling a 50-50 challenge in the build up to their first goal. Not noticed anyone mention the fact he then made literally no effort to pick up his man and get goalside until he'd received the ball, and then narrowly avoided giving away a penalty by pulling out of a stupid lunge.

Half tempted to do a Woodcote and wait outside for the teams to be announced, so I can just go home if he ever plays again rather than have to watch that utterly useless waste of oxygen.

[Maneki Neko]

Frankly, from the day Leigertwood was booed and Brian was ultimately sacked some fans have now got what they deserve. How's their "better football so we can survive when we get to promoted back to the Premier League" working out

throw in when madejski was boo'd on the pitch and chanted where has "all the money" gone which was the last straw and caused him to pull the plug on his support.



these were the days the club lost its soul

[Snowflake Royal]

Frankly, from the day Leigertwood was booed and Brian was ultimately sacked some fans have now got what they deserve. How's their "better football so we can survive when we get to promoted back to the Premier League" working out

throw in when madejski was boo'd on the pitch and chanted where has "all the money" gone which was the last straw and caused him to pull the plug on his support.



these were the days the club lost its soul

And the way Adkins was treated for being shafted harder by Anton than any manager in our history and not being McDermott. Ever since McDermott half of the fanbase has embraced a new manager because they're not the old, and the other half have rejected him because he's not the old manager.