Clement

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Clement in or out

Poll ended at 02 Oct 2018 15:29
Out
35
25%
In
68
49%
Out but in a funny accent
3
2%
Oxf*rd off Maff
17
12%
Ian Royal
16
12%
 
Total votes: 139
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tmesis
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Re: Clement

by tmesis » 03 Sep 2018 19:59

Ascotexgunner wrote: His coaching methods certainly look dodgy. He has managed to make decent players even worse. Get rid asap.

Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

There were glimpses of what we could be after the Derby game, but it didn't take much to soften us up and offering little but meek surrender again, like we'd become used to under Stam.

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Sep 2018 20:18

tmesis wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote: His coaching methods certainly look dodgy. He has managed to make decent players even worse. Get rid asap.

Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

There were glimpses of what we could be after the Derby game, but it didn't take much to soften us up and offering little but meek surrender again, like we'd become used to under Stam.



I think Blackett has definitely improved since he took over.

Barrow's got worse... but that might be injury and fitness rather than coaching. Everyone else went downhill under Stam IMO.

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Re: Clement

by windermereROYAL » 03 Sep 2018 20:24

Bradford city sack their boss after 4 defeats in the opening 6 games :D

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Re: Clement

by Ascotexgunner » 03 Sep 2018 20:32

tmesis wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote: His coaching methods certainly look dodgy. He has managed to make decent players even worse. Get rid asap.

Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

There were glimpses of what we could be after the Derby game, but it didn't take much to soften us up and offering little but meek surrender again, like we'd become used to under Stam.

Here's a taster then....
I think Aluko who was crap anyway looks beyond repair now. The one moment against QPR doesn't count.
I felt Kelly had a bit of hope, now broken beyond repair....can't even take a corner.
Swift always showed signs of greatness, even under Stam......just a shadow now. The odd glimpse now and again.

And so on.....

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Re: Clement

by windermereROYAL » 03 Sep 2018 20:35

Summery from the tilehurst end, good points made

There is something very wrong at this club. We have had a succession of managers that are struggling to get the best out of this club. Since Brian Mcdermott left in 2013 after his first stint in charge, only one manager has got us to a 40% win-rate (just) and that was Jaap Stam.
To improve a club you have two options; firstly promote from within and secondly good player recruitment. Both are currently lacking at Reading FC. The team that started Saturday did not feature one player who has come through the ranks at this club.
Our reluctance to give our youth its chance is worrying – what’s the point of having an academy if you’re not going to use it? Similarly, we have had a number of windows with what we thought were good signings and did get the crowd excited, however, largely our recruitment has been poor and not developed the team.
Our best ever side is still the 2006 Championship-winning group, and I challenge you to name a player we have recruited/developed since then that would displace not only 2006’s starting 11 or the bench.
The Sum Of The Parts (if you haven’t read it go get a copy) gave a good insight into the mentality and bonds that created a winning team. I strongly suggest that the club get some copies and dish them out, as it’s fairly obvious that the current board, management and players haven’t actually got a clue how to turn this around.
Whilst no one wants to get relegated, would it though be the disaster we all expect? There are examples of this littered throughout history of teams that went down then came back stronger than ever with a better mentality and went on to get promotion. If nothing else it would allow us to reboot the team and give the fans a taste of winning again.
What’s the alternative? Every Saturday watching a team get beat with no hope of stringing more than two wins together? Is that really what we all want?


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Re: Clement

by Hound » 03 Sep 2018 20:36

Kelly and Swift are no worse than last season, but certainly not improved

Would say Barrow has not played as well - but mainly due to injury

Ilori has got better. He is prob the big winner. Bod probably, but small sample. Blackett has got a bit better

That’s about it really.

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 03 Sep 2018 20:37

royal_rumble wrote: At the moment seems to be persevering with 442, leaving us light in midfield and with no cutting edge.


Same formation that McD defaulted too after Rodgers experiment. Where the players looked totally lost. Simply not up to the technical level required. Same as Stam's formations,

See that Aluko's contribution on Saturday was 23 passes. 8 of which were forward........ Sums us up as a team.

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 03 Sep 2018 20:41

tmesis wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote: His coaching methods certainly look dodgy. He has managed to make decent players even worse. Get rid asap.

Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

Kelly, Barrow, Swift, Gunter, McShane, for sure, and maybe Richards and Clement.
Meyler doesn’t look nearly the player he was at Hull, same with Baldock at Brighton, and both were recently in PL.
McNulty hasn’t been played much, neither has O’Shea.
Popa has done nothing under this manager, and Evans was given the boot.
No academy players playing, save Kelly who’s regressed badly and been benched.
Mannone may have regressed. I can’t say he’s improved, certainly.
Blackett may have improved, but was benched.
Collectively, we’re bottom of the league. When did that last happen?
As always, it’s all about opinions, which is the whole point of a discussion forum. What say you?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 03 Sep 2018 21:08, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Clement

by Ascotexgunner » 03 Sep 2018 20:53

Denver Royal wrote:
tmesis wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote: His coaching methods certainly look dodgy. He has managed to make decent players even worse. Get rid asap.

Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

Kelly, Barrow, Swift, Gunter, McShane, for sure, and maybe Richards and Clement.
Meyler doesn’t look nearly the player he was at Hull.
Evans was given the boot.
Mannone may have regressed. I can’t say he’s improved, certainly.
Blackett may have improved, but was jbenched.
Collectively, we’re bottom of the league. When did that last happen?
As always, it’s all about opinions, which is the whole point of a discussion forum. What say you?


You nailed that Denver. I forgot Clement. I really thought he would shine. You could see the talent was there last season, he had a great touch and given a bit more freedom looked like a midfielder with late runs and goals in him. The guy looks like he couldn't trap a bag of cement now.


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Re: Clement

by 72 bus » 03 Sep 2018 21:05

Silver Fox wrote:
Zip wrote:Some of you are doing complete Uturns in regard to Warnock. Rightly so.
His record in the Championship is astonishing. Would have him at our club in a heartbeat.


Nope, don't want his "brand" of football anywhere near the place thanks


What do you think of our brand of football ?. not that great is it.
Warnocks brand of football got Cardiff promoted whilst at the same time managed to united a club with it's fans and chairman, a situation that was an absolute clusterfuck before he took over.

Meanwhile we are sleepwalking towards League one whilst playing the most boring football imaginable.

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Re: Clement

by RoyalJones » 03 Sep 2018 21:13

maffff wrote:
Davezk wrote:Keep until Christmas and see where we are. If in relegation zone, new manager in with a Jan transfer window to try and resolve the problems.

Wait until we're dead and buried, great idea. A new person could start evaluating throughout the entire club incl academy and working on transfer plans now y'know. Changing a week before the window is a bit.... pointless?

We could do with a new chief exec that will highlight the importance of youth, Gourlay is just not up to it. He should not have sanctioned the signings of Walker and O'Shea.

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Re: Clement

by Ascotexgunner » 03 Sep 2018 21:14

72 bus wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:
Zip wrote:Some of you are doing complete Uturns in regard to Warnock. Rightly so.
His record in the Championship is astonishing. Would have him at our club in a heartbeat.


Nope, don't want his "brand" of football anywhere near the place thanks


What do you think of our brand of football ?. not that great is it.
Warnocks brand of football got Cardiff promoted whilst at the same time managed to united a club with it's fans and chairman, a situation that was an absolute clusterfuck before he took over.

Meanwhile we are sleepwalking towards League one whilst playing the most boring football imaginable.


Warnock is a real marmite character. There are times I've stood there shouting obscenities at the guy and think, "I'm glad he's not at this club"...... But then you look at his record and its incredible for the Championship. The football he plays is physical, but he always builds a team that plays that football really well.....and its not like he blows lots of money either. Interesting to see if Cardiff stick with him.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 03 Sep 2018 21:19

It’s very difficult to argue with what he has achieved. The job he did with cardiff was incredible - and they were in a sorry state similar to ours before he went in

Rotherham before that as well. They were absolutely dire and he kept them up


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Re: Clement

by Zip » 03 Sep 2018 21:28

Hound wrote:It’s very difficult to argue with what he has achieved. The job he did with cardiff was incredible - and they were in a sorry state similar to ours before he went in

Rotherham before that as well. They were absolutely dire and he kept them up


Rewind two years. Cardiff struggling at the bottom of the Championship. Warnock took over and in their first season finished mid table. In their second season they finished second.....and I suspect he spent less than we did in that period. He turned it around very quickly and got the players and supporters united.
.

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 03 Sep 2018 21:35

The single biggest factor behind Leeds’ resurgence (thus far) is manager (and he only got there in late June). Early doors, but if they go up, it will have been because of him. They haven’t even made the Champ playoffs in over a decade.

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Re: Clement

by 3points » 03 Sep 2018 21:50

Neil Harris did a great job with Millwall last season too with limited resources and a pretty average bunch of players. It’s about getting a style and gelling the team to all pull 8n the same direction. Stam actually did that in his first season.

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 03 Sep 2018 21:59

Zip wrote:Rewind two years. Cardiff struggling at the bottom of the Championship. Warnock took over and in their first season finished mid table. In their second season they finished second.....and I suspect he spent less than we did in that period. He turned it around very quickly and got the players and supporters united.

Zip, here’s a question, just for discussion. If we got Warnock, he obv knows the Champ, so how do you reckon he’d change the team player/position and formation wise? What would he see as our biggest weaknesses?

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Re: Clement

by Lower West » 03 Sep 2018 22:13

Ascotexgunner wrote:Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

Kelly, Barrow, Swift, Gunter, McShane, for sure, and maybe Richards and Clement.
[/quote]

Kelly - consistantly inconsistant.
Swift - injury prone.
Barrow - flatters to deceive.
Gunter - plateaued some time ago.
McShane - committed but past sell by date.
Richards - ideally needs a loan spell out
Clement - A Stam punt. Not good enough to warrant a regular starting place.

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Re: Clement

by 3points » 03 Sep 2018 22:16

Denver Royal wrote:
Zip wrote:Rewind two years. Cardiff struggling at the bottom of the Championship. Warnock took over and in their first season finished mid table. In their second season they finished second.....and I suspect he spent less than we did in that period. He turned it around very quickly and got the players and supporters united.

Zip, here’s a question, just for discussion. If we got Warnock, he obv knows the Champ, so how do you reckon he’d change the team player/position and formation wise? What would he see as our biggest weaknesses?

So he likes big physical and athletic players. Given a fully fit squad I think we might look something like

Walker
Gunter/Yiadom
Moore
Blackett/O’Shea
Obita

McCleary/ Bacuna
Meyler
Iranian chap
Edwards
Meite

bodvarsson

Though I think we’d quickly be in the market for a big old fashioned centre half and a target man like Jerome or Donaldson or Matt Smith. And he might recall Joey and Sam Smith.

Those on the first bus out of here
Kelly
Clement
Swift
Barrow
Aluko
Popa
McNulty
Last edited by 3points on 03 Sep 2018 22:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clement

by Zip » 03 Sep 2018 22:17

Denver Royal wrote:
Zip wrote:Rewind two years. Cardiff struggling at the bottom of the Championship. Warnock took over and in their first season finished mid table. In their second season they finished second.....and I suspect he spent less than we did in that period. He turned it around very quickly and got the players and supporters united.

Zip, here’s a question. If we got Warnock, how do you reckon he’d change the team player and formation wise?


That’s a question and a half! He does like big, strong players so I think the likes of Baldock, Kelly and McNulty would not be part of the squad going forward. He likes his wingers so Barrow in but Aluko would be the first out of the door for his lack of work ethic. He would like Sims.
Meite would be given a chance as would Bodvarsson.

Frankly he would want all our central midfielders out of the door. He wants workers not shirkers. I suppose Bacuna might stand a chance. That’s about it though.
Big centre half’s. So Moore wouldn’t fit the bill but he would see that he is good enough and would play him alongside a Morrison type centre back who can dominate aerially. We don’t have that type of centre back. Yiadom would fit the bill at full back and Obita too.

One thing he doesn’t seem to do is promote from within so I wouldn’t expect our Academy lads to get a look in.

I think they played just Zohore up top for much of last season...but I might have that wrong. So maybe 4/5/1 with Bod the lone striker.

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