Clement

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Clement in or out

Poll ended at 02 Oct 2018 15:29
Out
35
25%
In
68
49%
Out but in a funny accent
3
2%
Oxf*rd off Maff
17
12%
Ian Royal
16
12%
 
Total votes: 139
3points
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Re: Clement

by 3points » 03 Sep 2018 22:20

Zip wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:
Zip wrote:Rewind two years. Cardiff struggling at the bottom of the Championship. Warnock took over and in their first season finished mid table. In their second season they finished second.....and I suspect he spent less than we did in that period. He turned it around very quickly and got the players and supporters united.

Zip, here’s a question. If we got Warnock, how do you reckon he’d change the team player and formation wise?


That’s a question and a half! He does like big, strong players so I think the likes of Baldock, Kelly and McNulty would not be part of the squad going forward. He likes his wingers so Barrow in but Aluko would be the first out of the door for his lack of work ethic. He would like Sims.
Meite would be given a chance as would Bodvarsson.

Frankly he would want all our central midfielders out of the door. He wants workers not shirkers. I suppose Bacuna might stand a chance. That’s about it though.
Big centre half’s. So Moore wouldn’t fit the bill but he would see that he is good enough and would play him alongside a Morrison type centre back who can dominate aerially. We don’t have that type of centre back. Yiadom would fit the bill at full back and Obita too.

One thing he doesn’t seem to do is promote from within so I wouldn’t expect our Academy lads to get a look in.

I think they played just Zohore up top for much of last season...but I might have that wrong. So maybe 4/5/1 with Bod the lone striker.

Very similar to my thoughts Zip

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Re: Clement

by maffff » 03 Sep 2018 22:24

Ascotexgunner wrote:
You nailed that Denver. I forgot Clement. I really thought he would shine. You could see the talent was there last season, he had a great touch and given a bit more freedom looked like a midfielder with late runs and goals in him. The guy looks like he couldn't trap a bag of cement now.


Clement had a great pre season too in a deeper role, but hasn't featured since.

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Re: Clement

by Zip » 03 Sep 2018 22:25

3points wrote:
Zip wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:Zip, here’s a question. If we got Warnock, how do you reckon he’d change the team player and formation wise?


That’s a question and a half! He does like big, strong players so I think the likes of Baldock, Kelly and McNulty would not be part of the squad going forward. He likes his wingers so Barrow in but Aluko would be the first out of the door for his lack of work ethic. He would like Sims.
Meite would be given a chance as would Bodvarsson.

Frankly he would want all our central midfielders out of the door. He wants workers not shirkers. I suppose Bacuna might stand a chance. That’s about it though.
Big centre half’s. So Moore wouldn’t fit the bill but he would see that he is good enough and would play him alongside a Morrison type centre back who can dominate aerially. We don’t have that type of centre back. Yiadom would fit the bill at full back and Obita too.

One thing he doesn’t seem to do is promote from within so I wouldn’t expect our Academy lads to get a look in.

I think they played just Zohore up top for much of last season...but I might have that wrong. So maybe 4/5/1 with Bod the lone striker.

Very similar to my thoughts Zip


Yep. I noticed that but you didn’t think he would go for Barrow though. I reckon he would work on him and get him to do a lot more defensively.

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Re: Clement

by Zip » 03 Sep 2018 22:27

maffff wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote:
You nailed that Denver. I forgot Clement. I really thought he would shine. You could see the talent was there last season, he had a great touch and given a bit more freedom looked like a midfielder with late runs and goals in him. The guy looks like he couldn't trap a bag of cement now.


Clement had a great pre season too in a deeper role, but hasn't featured since.


He deserves a chance. Why not? I also think Popa has been unlucky.

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Re: Clement

by 3points » 03 Sep 2018 23:09

Zip wrote:
3points wrote:
Zip wrote:
That’s a question and a half! He does like big, strong players so I think the likes of Baldock, Kelly and McNulty would not be part of the squad going forward. He likes his wingers so Barrow in but Aluko would be the first out of the door for his lack of work ethic. He would like Sims.
Meite would be given a chance as would Bodvarsson.

Frankly he would want all our central midfielders out of the door. He wants workers not shirkers. I suppose Bacuna might stand a chance. That’s about it though.
Big centre half’s. So Moore wouldn’t fit the bill but he would see that he is good enough and would play him alongside a Morrison type centre back who can dominate aerially. We don’t have that type of centre back. Yiadom would fit the bill at full back and Obita too.

One thing he doesn’t seem to do is promote from within so I wouldn’t expect our Academy lads to get a look in.

I think they played just Zohore up top for much of last season...but I might have that wrong. So maybe 4/5/1 with Bod the lone striker.

Very similar to my thoughts Zip


Yep. I noticed that but you didn’t think he would go for Barrow though. I reckon he would work on him and get him to do a lot more defensively.
you might be right. I just don’t think Barrow has got that kind of work rate in him.


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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 04 Sep 2018 00:36

Yeah, good thoughts. Agree, Warnock would get rid of quite a few. Most of our Summer signings, prolly. He may even want to pretty much rinse the whole team.
Yep, Bacuna may have a chance, but he’d have to become a 90-minute-player, every game, and he hasn’t done that nearly enough for us (or throughout his career).
Moore is an interesting one, but reckon he’d cash in on him.
Ilori...He’s improved some this season (thus far) but I doubt he is in any way Warnock’s type of Champ CB (and nor mine, actually). He’d take a look, see he can pass a ball, but wouldn’t see the trade off and would ultimately decide he’s not sustainable because he’s not a good/effective enough defender, and doesn’t score at the other end, either. (Morrison is a brute at the back, and scored quite a few goals, too). The plus/minus math/percentages for Ilori just wouldn’t be there for Warnock, imo. And this, according to some, is ‘Our best player of the season so far’ (even tho Clement benched him, and some were worried about him doing so).

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Re: Clement

by leon » 04 Sep 2018 01:47

Ffs boys focus. Warnocks not coming here. He’s already got a job and he’s not a massive fan of Reading anyway.

You might as well be discussing how Simeone would set up the team (He’d get us promoted btw - now there really IS a manager who can get a team playing)

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 04 Sep 2018 02:27

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Last edited by Denver Royal on 04 Sep 2018 04:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clement

by Denver Royal » 04 Sep 2018 03:57

Denver Royal wrote:
leon wrote:Ffs boys focus. Warnocks not coming here. He’s already got a job and he’s not a massive fan of Reading anyway.

He isn't. (And nor is Simeone). But that wasn’t really the point. We’re bottom of the league, whereas he’s had much success in Champ. We were exploring some of the reasons for that. Discussion in this forum is cool, and as you'd know, and would welcome, creates revenue for it these days. Many have sadly departed, so the more the merrier. Any actual thoughts on what we should do in our plight?


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Re: Clement

by CountryRoyal » 04 Sep 2018 06:31

leon wrote:Ffs boys focus. Warnocks not coming here. He’s already got a job and he’s not a massive fan of Reading anyway.

You might as well be discussing how Simeone would set up the team (He’d get us promoted btw - now there really IS a manager who can get a team playing)


Sure. But is anyone realistically thinking he would? Or just saying they’d like him?

As I think it would be a positive move for the club it is therefore by default an absolute non starter (obviously) but you can forgive those for be it wishful thinking or whatever it is because in fairness, fantasy is a thousand times better than reality at the moment.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 07:19

Just a but of fun isn’t it? No one thinks he is coming here, being as he has a job currently in the Prem

McCarthy would be a possibility if Clement went. Not really sure how he sets up, but know the Ipswich fans weren’t too keen on him. Guessing it’s a solid 4-4-2

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Re: Clement

by under the tin » 04 Sep 2018 08:51

Denver Royal wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:
leon wrote:Ffs boys focus. Warnocks not coming here. He’s already got a job and he’s not a massive fan of Reading anyway.

He isn't. (And nor is Simeone). But that wasn’t really the point. We’re bottom of the league, whereas he’s had much success in Champ. We were exploring some of the reasons for that. Discussion in this forum is cool, and as you'd know, and would welcome, creates revenue for it these days. Many have sadly departed, so the more the merrier. Any actual thoughts on what we should do in our plight?


Most of us who have to work for a living can recognise, when seeking employment, the difference between a good employer, and a bad one.
These days, businesses set a great deal of store in staff retention and development. This is the response to hard lessons learnt by studying the disruptive effect of heavy staff turnover, costing all types of business money, time, and resources.

We are all grown up enough to see a recruitment campaign with the “bargepole effect”, you know, the kind of business that has vacancy ads in the paper constantly. Seems obvious to me that businesses that do this have a problem higher up the food chain, and that those who are hiring a string of failing candidates are more incompetent than those they are hiring.
Any idiot can hire and fire. The art of recruitment is finding those that are motivated, and have the appropriate skill sets to succeed in the position. The next step for the employer is to develop the employee’s skill sets, reward improvements accordingly, and in that, aid valued staff retention. It’s an old cliché, but success really does breed success.

Ever since SJM took his hand off the tiller, the remote foreign owners of RFC have hired people in to do the day to day running of their investment. These extremely well paid execs are given a budget by the board, and are charged with running a competitive, dynamic football club with a distinctive brand that resonates with the community that the club serves.
IMHO, aside from the Stam blip, they have been an abject failure. The results on the grass, and the growing number of empty seats in the stadium bear this out.

So, Denver, here are my suggestions to our inscrutable Chinese owners:
Change the whole culture.
A clean sweep of the management heirarchy. All of them. Get on the phone to Hammond. If there’s anyone who knows our club, it’s him. He can organise the rebuild upstairs.
This plus
Option 1
Retain Clement
Take the medicine, even if it means League 1, run the player contracts down. Reboot, Rebuild.
Option 2
Try and avoid the medicine. Get an experienced, proven manager in right now, let him evaluate the current players, pay those contracts straight off on those he doesn’t rate, and fully fund an immediate rebuild at the earliest opportunity. Change the dressing room culture.

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Re: Clement

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Sep 2018 09:37

Ascotexgunner wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:
tmesis wrote:Who was decent and has got worse since he took over?

Kelly, Barrow, Swift, Gunter, McShane, for sure, and maybe Richards and Clement.
Meyler doesn’t look nearly the player he was at Hull.
Evans was given the boot.
Mannone may have regressed. I can’t say he’s improved, certainly.
Blackett may have improved, but was jbenched.
Collectively, we’re bottom of the league. When did that last happen?
As always, it’s all about opinions, which is the whole point of a discussion forum. What say you?


You nailed that Denver. I forgot Clement. I really thought he would shine. You could see the talent was there last season, he had a great touch and given a bit more freedom looked like a midfielder with late runs and goals in him. The guy looks like he couldn't trap a bag of cement now.

This is such revisionist nonsense.

Gunter's only played one game this season and half our fans have always thought he was shit.
Kelly's been being slated since the start of last season.
Barrow is easily explained by fitness and injury, plus he always blew hit and cold.
Swift has been ruined by injury and only had half a good season two years ago
McShane was being called out as a liability since he got sent off in the POs
How anyone can suggest Richards has got worse is baffling, he's a kid who has played a dozen games and always looked a touch out of his depth.
Clement hasn't even played yet and looking ok in a shit pre-season means nothing. Looked out of his depth last year.
The idea that Clement has ruined Meyler in a couple of months is ludicrous.
Mannone's just as bang average as he's always been
Evans barely played last year and he was virtually the only midfielder anyone wanted when we needed to shift players.

Clement has been handed an absolutely shit job, with players whose attitudes and abilities stink, that he can do very little with. He's picked up the job at the point we'd gone 18/19 games with only 1 win. He's not doing everything right, but how many managers do we need to try before some of you realise its not just the manager's fault.

Adkins got shafted by not being McDermott and having no money
Clarke was a twat who shafted himself
McDermott was shafted
Stam oxf*rd things up worse than they've been in decades.

Switching again is unlikely to help. Every time we have a manager who isn't winning people say its his fault, sack him the new guy can't do worse. Well, the new guy keeps proving those people wrong.


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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 09:49

Agree with that lot Ian

Though PC can do something. It’s his job to really. Imo he needs to identify the correct set of 18 players, get a system and stick with it. I think that’s what he’s trying to do - just needs to do it better and be a bit more ruthless (Aluko)

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Re: Clement

by Stranded » 04 Sep 2018 09:57

Hound wrote:Agree with that lot Ian

Though PC can do something. It’s his job to really. Imo he needs to identify the correct set of 18 players, get a system and stick with it. I think that’s what he’s trying to do - just needs to do it better and be a bit more ruthless (Aluko)


I think he is still trying to figure that out - I think we are at a stage where he knows his preferred defence - think we saw that on Saturday.

He wants to start with Baldock and JDB up top with McNulty as back up.

He wants Barrow on one wing. Aluko will be out as soon as Sims is up to speed - it is central midfield where he is struggling to find a combination. I think our new Iranian will fill one place and then it is who partners him.

The bench is being dictated a bit by overall squad fitness. The team is close to being settled at which point we will see if this lot can actually do anything of any note.

His preferred XI seems to be (or at least moving toward being):

Mannone

Gunter
Moore
Ilori
Yiadom

Sims
Ezatolahi
XXXXX
Barrow

Baldock
JDB

That *could* be half decent.

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Re: Clement

by Hound » 04 Sep 2018 10:08

yeah agree. Bacuna seems to be getting a little run and not playing too badly.

Then it really depends on how the Iranian chap is. Potentially if he settles quickly then him and Bacuna is an ok midfield. Swift and Kelly/Meyler on the bench, along with Walker, McNulty, Meite and Blackett would work for me.

Leaves Clement, McShane, Loader, O Shea, Popa, McCleary (would like to see him back if he got up to speed, but not hopeful), Aluko, Meyler, Richards, Rinomhota and Jaakola as an extremely expensive back up squad.

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Re: Clement

by leon » 04 Sep 2018 10:12

Hound wrote:yeah agree. Bacuna seems to be getting a little run and not playing too badly.

Then it really depends on how the Iranian chap is. Potentially if he settles quickly then him and Bacuna is an ok midfield. Swift and Kelly/Meyler on the bench, along with Walker, McNulty, Meite and Blackett would work for me.

Leaves Clement, McShane, Loader, O Shea, Popa, McCleary (would like to see him back if he got up to speed, but not hopeful), Aluko, Meyler, Richards, Rinomhota and Jaakola as an extremely expensive back up squad.


So we’re pinning our hopes on this Iranian chap?

What happens if he’s Shiite?

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Re: Clement

by Maneki Neko » 04 Sep 2018 10:14

Snowflake Royal wrote:
Ascotexgunner wrote:
Denver Royal wrote:Kelly, Barrow, Swift, Gunter, McShane, for sure, and maybe Richards and Clement.
Meyler doesn’t look nearly the player he was at Hull.
Evans was given the boot.
Mannone may have regressed. I can’t say he’s improved, certainly.
Blackett may have improved, but was jbenched.
Collectively, we’re bottom of the league. When did that last happen?
As always, it’s all about opinions, which is the whole point of a discussion forum. What say you?


You nailed that Denver. I forgot Clement. I really thought he would shine. You could see the talent was there last season, he had a great touch and given a bit more freedom looked like a midfielder with late runs and goals in him. The guy looks like he couldn't trap a bag of cement now.

This is such revisionist nonsense.

Gunter's only played one game this season and half our fans have always thought he was shit.
Kelly's been being slated since the start of last season.
Barrow is easily explained by fitness and injury, plus he always blew hit and cold.
Swift has been ruined by injury and only had half a good season two years ago
McShane was being called out as a liability since he got sent off in the POs
How anyone can suggest Richards has got worse is baffling, he's a kid who has played a dozen games and always looked a touch out of his depth.
Clement hasn't even played yet and looking ok in a shit pre-season means nothing. Looked out of his depth last year.
The idea that Clement has ruined Meyler in a couple of months is ludicrous.
Mannone's just as bang average as he's always been
Evans barely played last year and he was virtually the only midfielder anyone wanted when we needed to shift players.

Clement has been handed an absolutely shit job, with players whose attitudes and abilities stink, that he can do very little with. He's picked up the job at the point we'd gone 18/19 games with only 1 win. He's not doing everything right, but how many managers do we need to try before some of you realise its not just the manager's fault.

Adkins got shafted by not being McDermott and having no money
Clarke was a twat who shafted himself
McDermott was shafted
Stam oxf*rd things up worse than they've been in decades.

Switching again is unlikely to help. Every time we have a manager who isn't winning people say its his fault, sack him the new guy can't do worse. Well, the new guy keeps proving those people wrong.


if ive learned anything about watching football over the years its that a lack of confidence/being used to losing/negativity around the club can make great players/managers looks utter shite.
a couple of wins and this will all start to turn around.we just need to get those wins

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Re: Clement

by Stranded » 04 Sep 2018 10:46

leon wrote:
Hound wrote:yeah agree. Bacuna seems to be getting a little run and not playing too badly.

Then it really depends on how the Iranian chap is. Potentially if he settles quickly then him and Bacuna is an ok midfield. Swift and Kelly/Meyler on the bench, along with Walker, McNulty, Meite and Blackett would work for me.

Leaves Clement, McShane, Loader, O Shea, Popa, McCleary (would like to see him back if he got up to speed, but not hopeful), Aluko, Meyler, Richards, Rinomhota and Jaakola as an extremely expensive back up squad.


So we’re pinning our hopes on this Iranian chap?

What happens if he’s Shiite?


We just keep a Sunni disposition.

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Re: Clement

by Jagermesiter1871 » 04 Sep 2018 10:51

Judging by our Iranians Instagram page he's still in Tehran so not sure when we'll first see him.

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