Club developed players

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maffff
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Re: Club developed players

by maffff » 24 Sep 2018 23:27

In mid August after the success of the World Cup there was stuff going around that the EFL are/were considering proposals for matchday 18s to have a minimum of 14 home grown players and 7 club developed in the 18 by 2023. 5 years to phase in if approved - would be looking for EPL to go alongside too though.

That would be incredible. Yes please.

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Re: Club developed players

by Kulshaw72RFC » 25 Sep 2018 06:14

NewCorkSeth
Hound again Citeh would just chuck Phil Foden on the bench

Or Brahim Diaz for those who think only English youth would benefit.


To be fair to Foden and Diaz, hopefully in a few years they will be first teamers.

I do think that the 7 sub rule has somewhat hampered youth development though. Just means teams tend to buy more squad fillers.

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Re: Club developed players

by NewCorkSeth » 25 Sep 2018 06:41

maffff In mid August after the success of the World Cup there was stuff going around that the EFL are/were considering proposals for matchday 18s to have a minimum of 14 home grown players and 7 club developed in the 18 by 2023. 5 years to phase in if approved - would be looking for EPL to go alongside too though.

That would be incredible. Yes please.

Why would it be incredible?

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Re: Club developed players

by Kulshaw72RFC » 25 Sep 2018 06:58

NewCorkSeth
maffff In mid August after the success of the World Cup there was stuff going around that the EFL are/were considering proposals for matchday 18s to have a minimum of 14 home grown players and 7 club developed in the 18 by 2023. 5 years to phase in if approved - would be looking for EPL to go alongside too though.

That would be incredible. Yes please.

Why would it be incredible?


I don't think that would be a good idea. Although probably the majority of clubs do meet that criteria in the EFL I am sure, I wouldn't want that in the PL.

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Re: Club developed players

by Nameless » 25 Sep 2018 09:06

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Nameless I don’t think this would be a problem for us at all.
We could name any one of 4 home grown centre backs on the bench without a problem. We’ve got several keepers who would be ok as reserve keeper. Loader currently and Novacovic next season qualify as would Smith. Obita and Richards when fit plus Watson when back from loan. Other than Obita and Richards (plus Kelly) not sure many of these are ready to start 20+ games a season this year but you would hope some would start featuring in match squads soon and be challenging for the starting line up from next season. I certainly think when Moore leaves we should be replacing him from within the club.

I know just the guy too. He's 6ft6, left footed, has scored a decent amount of goals despite being young.
Jake Coop.. oh..


Luckily I think most of the young centrebacks we have coming through will turn out to be better than Cooper. Not as tall maybe but without the tendency to throw in a big error each game. Osho and McIntyre in particular are way better footballers than Cooper at this stage.


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Re: Club developed players

by Hound » 25 Sep 2018 09:16

Holmes looked decent enough on the one game he played last year, esp considering the circumstances. Andresson looked capable as well

think said elsewhere, PC should basically get the group that played vs Hull, kick out Aluko and bring in either GMac or Harriott, and tell the rest they are off in Jan (other than Obita obvs). Fill in the gaps from the U23 (inc Richards and Rinomhota). Would happily see Osho as 4th choice CB over McShane for example.

There is plenty enough in the U23 to support the first team squad.

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Re: Club developed players

by NewCorkSeth » 25 Sep 2018 09:32

Nameless
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Nameless I don’t think this would be a problem for us at all.
We could name any one of 4 home grown centre backs on the bench without a problem. We’ve got several keepers who would be ok as reserve keeper. Loader currently and Novacovic next season qualify as would Smith. Obita and Richards when fit plus Watson when back from loan. Other than Obita and Richards (plus Kelly) not sure many of these are ready to start 20+ games a season this year but you would hope some would start featuring in match squads soon and be challenging for the starting line up from next season. I certainly think when Moore leaves we should be replacing him from within the club.

I know just the guy too. He's 6ft6, left footed, has scored a decent amount of goals despite being young.
Jake Coop.. oh..


Luckily I think most of the young centrebacks we have coming through will turn out to be better than Cooper. Not as tall maybe but without the tendency to throw in a big error each game. Osho and McIntyre in particular are way better footballers than Cooper at this stage.

Sadly I know very little of the youth players but I presume, perhaps falsely, that they would be a bit error prone if thrust into the first team right now.

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Re: Club developed players

by Kingsley Junior » 25 Sep 2018 10:38

NewCorkSeth
John Smith If only this rule were enforced in the Prem

It wouldn't change anything?
Arsenal - Bellerin
Chelsea - Loftus-Cheek
Liverpool - Alexander-Arnold
Man City - You got me there..
Man Utd - Pogba
Tottenham - Kane

Unless I misunderstood this entirely.

Is there a team in the premier league without an academy player in the first team right now?


Just a vaguely interesting aside, apparently Man United have had at least one academy grown player in every single match day squad in all competitions since 1937. No idea how other teams stack up.

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Re: Club developed players

by Kulshaw72RFC » 25 Sep 2018 10:42

Kingsley Junior
NewCorkSeth
John Smith If only this rule were enforced in the Prem

It wouldn't change anything?
Arsenal - Bellerin
Chelsea - Loftus-Cheek
Liverpool - Alexander-Arnold
Man City - You got me there..
Man Utd - Pogba
Tottenham - Kane

Unless I misunderstood this entirely.

Is there a team in the premier league without an academy player in the first team right now?


Just a vaguely interesting aside, apparently Man United have had at least one academy grown player in every single match day squad in all competitions since 1937. No idea how other teams stack up.


If you are talking entire matchday squads, I would hedge a (possibly incorrect) bet that Man city, Arsenal and Chelsea haven't at some point.

If you are talking about starting 11 and subs who play definately those 3 on a regular basis.


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Re: Club developed players

by Ascotexgunner » 25 Sep 2018 10:57

Nameless
NewCorkSeth
Nameless I don’t think this would be a problem for us at all.
We could name any one of 4 home grown centre backs on the bench without a problem. We’ve got several keepers who would be ok as reserve keeper. Loader currently and Novacovic next season qualify as would Smith. Obita and Richards when fit plus Watson when back from loan. Other than Obita and Richards (plus Kelly) not sure many of these are ready to start 20+ games a season this year but you would hope some would start featuring in match squads soon and be challenging for the starting line up from next season. I certainly think when Moore leaves we should be replacing him from within the club.

I know just the guy too. He's 6ft6, left footed, has scored a decent amount of goals despite being young.
Jake Coop.. oh..


Luckily I think most of the young centrebacks we have coming through will turn out to be better than Cooper. Not as tall maybe but without the tendency to throw in a big error each game. Osho and McIntyre in particular are way better footballers than Cooper at this stage.


TBF Every single player on the planet has one big error per gave in them, whether its a forward missing a sitter, a midfielder losing possession easily or a defender losing his man. Every level you see it. Problem is nowadays everyones a pundit and studies TV angles from every perspective. Defenders get more stick than any other position. You wonder, in say, "The modern" Arsenal, whether the likes of a young Tony Adams would have lasted with the mistakes he made. I think Jake Cooper was never given the chance to prove himself properly with Reading, doing pretty well at Millwall though and Im quite pleased for him. I think Millwall got a bargain.

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Re: Club developed players

by Kulshaw72RFC » 25 Sep 2018 11:05

Ascotexgunner
Nameless
NewCorkSeth I know just the guy too. He's 6ft6, left footed, has scored a decent amount of goals despite being young.
Jake Coop.. oh..


Luckily I think most of the young centrebacks we have coming through will turn out to be better than Cooper. Not as tall maybe but without the tendency to throw in a big error each game. Osho and McIntyre in particular are way better footballers than Cooper at this stage.


TBF Every single player on the planet has one big error per gave in them, whether its a forward missing a sitter, a midfielder losing possession easily or a defender losing his man. Every level you see it. Problem is nowadays everyones a pundit and studies TV angles from every perspective. Defenders get more stick than any other position. You wonder, in say, "The modern" Arsenal, whether the likes of a young Tony Adams would have lasted with the mistakes he made. I think Jake Cooper was never given the chance to prove himself properly with Reading, doing pretty well at Millwall though and Im quite pleased for him. I think Millwall got a bargain.

I wouldn't say no to having him back. It is tough when you are young and never played at the high standard to fit straight in with no mistakes.

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Re: Club developed players

by Hound » 25 Sep 2018 12:05

problem with Cooper is he just kept making them. They were always absolute shockers as well - poor back passes straight to a forward, falling over - basically goal creating ones

He always looked a talent, but maybe needed a change of scene.

I liked him, but think he would have been a disaster under Stam ball.

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Re: Club developed players

by Ascotexgunner » 25 Sep 2018 12:14

Hound problem with Cooper is he just kept making them. They were always absolute shockers as well - poor back passes straight to a forward, falling over - basically goal creating ones

He always looked a talent, but maybe needed a change of scene.

I liked him, but think he would have been a disaster under Stam ball.


Yeah, your right, I forgot about Stam Ball......Guess he was just at the right club at the wrong time.


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Re: Club developed players

by Nameless » 25 Sep 2018 22:07

Ascotexgunner
Nameless
NewCorkSeth I know just the guy too. He's 6ft6, left footed, has scored a decent amount of goals despite being young.
Jake Coop.. oh..


Luckily I think most of the young centrebacks we have coming through will turn out to be better than Cooper. Not as tall maybe but without the tendency to throw in a big error each game. Osho and McIntyre in particular are way better footballers than Cooper at this stage.


TBF Every single player on the planet has one big error per gave in them, whether its a forward missing a sitter, a midfielder losing possession easily or a defender losing his man. Every level you see it. Problem is nowadays everyones a pundit and studies TV angles from every perspective. Defenders get more stick than any other position. You wonder, in say, "The modern" Arsenal, whether the likes of a young Tony Adams would have lasted with the mistakes he made. I think Jake Cooper was never given the chance to prove himself properly with Reading, doing pretty well at Millwall though and Im quite pleased for him. I think Millwall got a bargain.


Agree on some of that, football is to a large degree about mistakes and I doubt any player has ever played the perfect game. But Cooper consistently did stuff that let him and the team down, bigger errors than Moore, or Ilori , or even Blackett make. Maybe it was youth but you ge judged on what you do. He played 42 games for us so the ‘not given a chance’ bit doesn’t ring true.
The bit about everyone analysing games on TV is absurd. I cannot recall ever seeing Cooper play on TV and I watch hardly any live games on TV, I ‘m just commenting on what I’ve seen at games.
I agree that seeing Cooper make a decent fist of things at Millwall is nice, although he’s only played a few more games than he did for us. I’m pleased for any of our youngsters going on to have decent careers in the game.

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Re: Club developed players

by Denver Royal » 26 Sep 2018 00:49

Nameless
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Nameless
Luckily I think most of the young centrebacks we have coming through will turn out to be better than Cooper. Not as tall maybe but without the tendency to throw in a big error each game. Osho and McIntyre in particular are way better footballers than Cooper at this stage.


TBF Every single player on the planet has one big error per gave in them, whether its a forward missing a sitter, a midfielder losing possession easily or a defender losing his man. Every level you see it. Problem is nowadays everyones a pundit and studies TV angles from every perspective. Defenders get more stick than any other position. You wonder, in say, "The modern" Arsenal, whether the likes of a young Tony Adams would have lasted with the mistakes he made. I think Jake Cooper was never given the chance to prove himself properly with Reading, doing pretty well at Millwall though and Im quite pleased for him. I think Millwall got a bargain.


Agree on some of that, football is to a large degree about mistakes and I doubt any player has ever played the perfect game. But Cooper consistently did stuff that let him and the team down, bigger errors than Moore, or Ilori , or even Blackett make. Maybe it was youth but you ge judged on what you do. He played 42 games for us so the ‘not given a chance’ bit doesn’t ring true.
The bit about everyone analysing games on TV is absurd. I cannot recall ever seeing Cooper play on TV and I watch hardly any live games on TV, I ‘m just commenting on what I’ve seen at games.
I agree that seeing Cooper make a decent fist of things at Millwall is nice, although he’s only played a few more games than he did for us. I’m pleased for any of our youngsters going on to have decent careers in the game.

Yep, think that’s fair. Wanted to like Cooper, and did. Had the height I feel you need at CB in Champ. But there’s no doubt he messed up at times which made decision for club more difficult. And yes, his time at Millwall is being hyped a little.

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Re: Club developed players

by Coppells Lost Coat » 26 Sep 2018 08:59

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TBF Every single player on the planet has one big error per gave in them, whether its a forward missing a sitter, a midfielder losing possession easily or a defender losing his man. Every level you see it. Problem is nowadays everyones a pundit and studies TV angles from every perspective. Defenders get more stick than any other position. You wonder, in say, "The modern" Arsenal, whether the likes of a young Tony Adams would have lasted with the mistakes he made. I think Jake Cooper was never given the chance to prove himself properly with Reading, doing pretty well at Millwall though and Im quite pleased for him. I think Millwall got a bargain.


Agree on some of that, football is to a large degree about mistakes and I doubt any player has ever played the perfect game. But Cooper consistently did stuff that let him and the team down, bigger errors than Moore, or Ilori , or even Blackett make. Maybe it was youth but you ge judged on what you do. He played 42 games for us so the ‘not given a chance’ bit doesn’t ring true.
The bit about everyone analysing games on TV is absurd. I cannot recall ever seeing Cooper play on TV and I watch hardly any live games on TV, I ‘m just commenting on what I’ve seen at games.
I agree that seeing Cooper make a decent fist of things at Millwall is nice, although he’s only played a few more games than he did for us. I’m pleased for any of our youngsters going on to have decent careers in the game.

Yep, think that’s fair. Wanted to like Cooper, and did. Had the height I feel you need at CB in Champ. But there’s no doubt he messed up at times which made decision for club more difficult. And yes, his time at Millwall is being hyped a little.


I felt that Cooper wasn't relaxed playing for us, which probably coming form the acedemy the pressure on yourself to break into the 1st team of a club you been at for years was a lot for a young lad if not managed properly.
He went to Millwall, no real pressure just a desire to be a decent CB.

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Re: Club developed players

by Hound » 26 Sep 2018 09:54

Millwall suited him perfectly tbh. A good move for him, where the expectation is for him to get his head on the ball and no real pressure to try and play football. Not surprised he has done well

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Re: Club developed players

by From Despair To Where? » 26 Sep 2018 10:53

I always thought Cooper's problem was a lack of concentration. He would just catastrophically switch off at times. Well, that and doing stupid things like trying to swap shirts with a player who's a yard offside and nowhere near the ball.

No surprise that he's doing better in a side that don't over complicate things.

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Re: Club developed players

by Forbury Lion » 26 Sep 2018 11:41

Would now be a good time for Kelly to ask for a pay rise?

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Re: Club developed players

by Simon's Church » 29 Sep 2018 08:42

Not sure Cooper was any more error prone than mcshane, who played fairly regularly under stam when he was fit.

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