BFT - I don’t know what to call it

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by NewCorkSeth » 03 Oct 2018 08:53

Old Man Andrews
NewCorkSeth QPR were bad, we were worse, the ref was the worst.

Strangely defensively we seemed fine just incapable once the ball was brought out.

The ref ensured we would go home unhappy. Several calls were completely wrong. Several. He should be fined. Boo.

Walker - 6 - I think I've said it Every time he's played but his distribution is so, so poor. He's good enough at everything else but cannot pass a long ball out at all. I know people will say "he doesn't have much to aim at" which is true but he can't aim. He missed Meite several time and kicked it straight out of play.. Not saying it's the right decision but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mannone start the next game.

Gunter - 6 - Poor first half but did really well in the second. Moved well, passed well and even crossed well. Like a different player. He was comically unable to get close to Bidwell who put in some good crosses.

Ilori - 7 - Again he did well enough. He's a quality player. Great passing, great acceleration for the intercept late in the second half and put in a peach of a cross too.

Moore - 7 - I think the only slip up he made was his literal slip. Can't really blame him or Ilori for the goal I don't think (I have to watch it again). I'm pretty sure he WON every header that came his way.

Yiadom - 7 - MOTM. He was great again. Attacked well and defended well. Considering almost all their attacks came down his flank and none of them succeeded I'd call that a job done. Needs to play on his strong side. Please.

Ezatolahi - 6 - The golden boy was a little more brass last night. He was still fine up to a point but struggled mainly because of the players in front of him. His midfield partners were reason we lost the game not him. Did give away a couple of silly frees.

Bacuna - 5 - Really poor. Just nothing clicked for him and he left his teammates stranded with late passes. He moved into poor positions when off the ball and I don't recall him doing much in defense.

Kelly - 4 - What was he doing? Was that really our plan? Send Kelly up high when he has no ability to retain a ball and terrible close control? Yes he did that one control on his outstretched leg in the second half but that's rare to see from him. After about 10 minutes of the game he should have realised "I'm ineffective up here" and come back to help control the centre of the park. Awful.

Aluko - I refuse to talk about him unroll he is either on the bench or on someone else's payroll.

Barrow - 5 - literally did nothing the entire first half. Was marked out so well by Rangel. Got a bit better in the second half. Really was ineffective but should have won a free for a blatant foul in the second.

Meite - 7 - He actually did alright. It wasn't his fault nobody supported him. He came close twice and tried his hardest. All you can ask of a last minute replacement striker. Clearly needs time to fulfil his potential though. He can win any header but can't place them to save his life.

Subs:

Swift - 7 - His introduction was the only positive thing last night. He played well despite the mood on the pitch.

Sims - 5 - That was your moment Sims. Your chance to prove once and for all that you are better than Aluko. You could have finally knocked him out of the team. You were almost worse than him instead.

McNulty - 4 - His few touches on the ball were amongst the worst of the night.


Sorry pal, you're being a bit generous there. I thought Yiadom was very sloppy early on and put us in danger a lot. Improved as time went on but not MOTM for me. Meite was shocking, terrible dive and some woeful shooting. Can't give him any more than a 5.

I'll admit I might be wearing my Yiadom tinted glasses but I dont recall him being sloppy in possession. I remember his getting hospital passes all night and Cousins(was it?) being very quick to close him down.

Meite took 4 shots that were all off target yes but they were snatched chances imo. He never got properly set up to score which admittedly is partly his fault for his positioning but less so than his teammates who couldn't get the ball to him.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by NewCorkSeth » 03 Oct 2018 08:55

Dr_Hfuhruhurr Is there a good resource for points per game by player? I'd like to see what they are for Aluko and how'd they compare. Normally I roll my eyes at Scape goats but can't help feeling this one might be justified.

Whoscored is pretty good usually but I wouldn't rely too much on stats. They're cold and unfeeling.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Brum Royal » 03 Oct 2018 08:57

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Not even Coppell would be able to motivate this lot. Coppell's answer is to recruit the right people in the first place. The right characters. People that have something to prove.

I don't think any manager, Guardiola included would be able to get more from this group than Clement.

The job that Clement faces is a minimum three year project. If Clement goes and someone else comes in it will take them at least three years as well and results in the first two years will look very dodgy again. Each time we sack a manager we just restart the RFC project from square one and begin another three year wait. We keep putting back the glory days every time we kick a manager out the door. If we had shown patience to McDermott and he was still our manager today, we would be watching a very hungry, motivated full of desire Reading team. But we keep prolonging this agony by sacking our managers and never giving them a chance to build a club.

Patience is the only word for this. Patience. We have to show it.


So if he takes us down do you still back him? I’m not saying I disagree with your comments above but relegation would be a disaster with zero guarantee we would bounce back.


I don't think that we are going to go down. I think he will get it together this season. The results have improved.
Yes, we are inconsistent. He made changes tonight (reintroduced Aluko and Kelly) and saw us go back to our old ways. He is finding out about people and the players. I think he is starting to find out what the right blend is and the right formula of players.

I think he will get it right. It's still too early to judge his managerial capabilities. But when he talks, he shows that he understands what has gone wrong and what the problems are. Unlike Stam for example who didn't seem able to put his finger on it.

If he takes us down, would I still back him? That depends on the circumstances of how we went down. If we go down having played Aluko every week and Aluko continues to underperform when there is a solution in Sims not getting a chance then Clement's decisions start to look indefensible. But we are no where near that at the moment. Let's judge Clement later when he has had a fair crack of the whip. At the moment, from what I can see, he is doing an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.


Agreed with TF here. I think we are heading in the right direction overall, albeit in a jerky way. Kelly, tbf, was better at Preston (I didn't see Hull or Brentford) and looked like he might be heading back towards his past self, last night showed that he's still nowhere near it. Aluko terrible as others have said.

But, the response to going behind was good. We had a 15 minute spell where we created three reasonable chances and either hit the target or went just wide. Think back to the Stam era - the heads would drop, there wouldn't be a reaction and it was near enough game over. This side at least shows a bit of fight and character.

Losing Bod and Baldock to injury (two of our best players in recent fixtures) and no Swift until after the goal has massively impacted on the side last night, and the enthusiastic but erratic Meite isn't the answer to losing both first choice strikers. Swift came on and made a big difference, clearly he was one of the crampers that Clement referred to. I think Clement is beginning to get his head round the squad and where the main problems lie, and even just the one change of Sims in for Aluko could have given us so much more.

It's not panic stations just yet for me, a bit more time and a more settled starting line up (without Aluko) and we'll be fine (well... finishing 14th-20th fine anyway).

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Dr_Hfuhruhurr » 03 Oct 2018 09:06

NewCorkSeth
Dr_Hfuhruhurr Is there a good resource for points per game by player? I'd like to see what they are for Aluko and how'd they compare. Normally I roll my eyes at Scape goats but can't help feeling this one might be justified.

Whoscored is pretty good usually but I wouldn't rely too much on stats. They're cold and unfeeling.


I don't know, I had a look on there just now and their top 5 and bottom 5 by player rating pretty much match the top 5 hero's and villains on here. Couldn't see PPG. Maybe because I'm on my phone. I'm bringing it up because I'm expecting his to be quite low so would actually be cold unfeeling stats supporting your stance. I remember when Andy Hughes was a scapegoat, however and his PPG was the best in the whole squad so the Team Board isn't always correct.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Warfield ED Stand » 03 Oct 2018 09:10

sandman
hughsies no.1 Forgot to add, both dives made by our players in the second half were embarrassing and both were rightly booked.


Ezatolahi one was a dive. First one however, was not. Yiadom was also pulled back and should have been awarded a penalty.

Shocking referee. Also a shocking assistant on the East Stand side, who on at least two occasions, had no idea if the ball had gone out for a corner or a goal kick, looked at the ref who also had no clue and ended up giving neither. He also gave a goal kick when a Queen People's Republic defender clearly put the ball out of play for a corner.


The goal kick decision near the end was absolutely shocking. Clearly came of the defender. Wasn't even a close call. They looked at each other, had no idea so he just pointed for a goal kick. Clown.


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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Millsy » 03 Oct 2018 09:10

Stop bashing Clement! Can't you see he's trying to get the best out of Aluko?? He'll shine in League 1!

Seriously though I'm on the fence with Clement. On one hand he's likeable and thoroughly honest, possibly the most honest manager we've ever had even moreso than Stam. On the other hand honesty doesn't save you. Several games last season, full transfer window, shit preseason, some way into the season and still doesn't know the best team. It's all very well being honest but we can be honest too: he's been shit.

Yeah it's the fault of the owners and setup etc... but the owners aren't going anywhere and the setup ain't changing any time soon. So whilst he may be a good manager he's clearly not good for this setup. This setup needs a Martin Allen type character who will go apeshit at he players and get them to play with some pride. Not someone who seems weak and deflated every game and shrugs his shoulders and says "yeah I was crap". I'd rather a tough no nonsense guy who may not be a tactical genius but who instills passion in the team and who isn't honest in interviews (because he has some pride and fight in him) than someone honest but who can't get the best out of what on paper is not a bad team.
Last edited by Millsy on 03 Oct 2018 09:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by sandman » 03 Oct 2018 09:11

Why is it that Yiadom is playing on his weaker side and still constantly looks to go forward yet Gunter is on his stronger side and constantly looks to go sideways and back?

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Pandoras Box » 03 Oct 2018 09:18

Soon as I saw that teamsheet with Gunter at RB, Kelly and Aluko, I knew this was a defeat again. Midfield would be overrun and give no support to the defence.
1) Kelly. Playing piggy in the middle. Chasing the ball around like a blue arsed fly, as fast as he can up the field to have it kicked over his head and then charge back down the field, repeat.
There were great swathes of time where he didn’t touch the ball, because he was swatted away by their physicality. Poor positional sense by always wanting to be involved but quite often simply gets in the way.
2) Aluko. Can’t control or cross a ball. Doesn’t track back and as soon as he loses the ball wanders into the centre circle and leaves the wing exposed, repeat.
Does Clement have a plan b? When Bod got injured in the warm up, he just got Meite to fill in from the bench. They are not like for like so surely you would look at the whole squad set up when having to make a change like that?
Oh and I call bs on ‘I didn’t get the selection right’ . You could see how this was going to play out in the first ten minutes, why did it take more than two thirds of the match to make changes if you thought it wasn’t right?
Had to cancel WBA as I’m not spending the best part of £100 to look at the team at 2pm and see those same names starting again to create another insipid performance especially when it seems the majority can see the problem that Clement can’t.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Hound » 03 Oct 2018 09:19

Disagree there was any lack of effort (bar Aluko). This wasn't a Norwich couldn't be arsed first half display. Think thats an easy criticism to throw but incorrect on this occasion.

Just a complete lack of quality going forward. Gunter and Yiadom did try to get forward and were 2 of our better performers. Bacuna, Eza and Kelly definitely tried, but Kelly was very poorly positioned and I just don't think is Champ standard. Barrow was disappointing and am feeling that he probably merits a run on the bench as an impact sub - would be starting Baldock, Bod and Sims/Meite I think.


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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Hound » 03 Oct 2018 09:21

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So if he takes us down do you still back him? I’m not saying I disagree with your comments above but relegation would be a disaster with zero guarantee we would bounce back.


I don't think that we are going to go down. I think he will get it together this season. The results have improved.
Yes, we are inconsistent. He made changes tonight (reintroduced Aluko and Kelly) and saw us go back to our old ways. He is finding out about people and the players. I think he is starting to find out what the right blend is and the right formula of players.

I think he will get it right. It's still too early to judge his managerial capabilities. But when he talks, he shows that he understands what has gone wrong and what the problems are. Unlike Stam for example who didn't seem able to put his finger on it.

If he takes us down, would I still back him? That depends on the circumstances of how we went down. If we go down having played Aluko every week and Aluko continues to underperform when there is a solution in Sims not getting a chance then Clement's decisions start to look indefensible. But we are no where near that at the moment. Let's judge Clement later when he has had a fair crack of the whip. At the moment, from what I can see, he is doing an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.


Agreed with TF here. I think we are heading in the right direction overall, albeit in a jerky way. Kelly, tbf, was better at Preston (I didn't see Hull or Brentford) and looked like he might be heading back towards his past self, last night showed that he's still nowhere near it. Aluko terrible as others have said.

But, the response to going behind was good. We had a 15 minute spell where we created three reasonable chances and either hit the target or went just wide. Think back to the Stam era - the heads would drop, there wouldn't be a reaction and it was near enough game over. This side at least shows a bit of fight and character.

Losing Bod and Baldock to injury (two of our best players in recent fixtures) and no Swift until after the goal has massively impacted on the side last night, and the enthusiastic but erratic Meite isn't the answer to losing both first choice strikers. Swift came on and made a big difference, clearly he was one of the crampers that Clement referred to. I think Clement is beginning to get his head round the squad and where the main problems lie, and even just the one change of Sims in for Aluko could have given us so much more.

It's not panic stations just yet for me, a bit more time and a more settled starting line up (without Aluko) and we'll be fine (well... finishing 14th-20th fine anyway).


Big +1 on this. Entirely my thoughts.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Maneki Neko » 03 Oct 2018 09:23

lol at people expecting a team who have been consistently and utterly awful for ages to suddenly turn it around and win every game playing attractive football.
It will be two baby steps forward and 1 baby step back for most of this season. don't get too ahead of ourselves when we win, don't go doolally metal when we lose.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Ranty McRantface » 03 Oct 2018 09:25

I agree with what has been mostly said but I find the Gunter ratings ridiculous. I'm not his biggest fan at all but was one of our best players lastnight. Stop being so bloody bias and applying favouritism to your ratings and give an honest review for once.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Zip » 03 Oct 2018 09:26

Once again last night our marking at corners was shambolic. It’s a recurring theme. QPR’s goal started with their player completely unmarked and in acres of space allowed to head the ball across goal. This is basic basic stuff.


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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Zip » 03 Oct 2018 09:29

Pandoras Box Soon as I saw that teamsheet with Gunter at RB, Kelly and Aluko, I knew this was a defeat again. Midfield would be overrun and give no support to the defence.
1) Kelly. Playing piggy in the middle. Chasing the ball around like a blue arsed fly, as fast as he can up the field to have it kicked over his head and then charge back down the field, repeat.
There were great swathes of time where he didn’t touch the ball, because he was swatted away by their physicality. Poor positional sense by always wanting to be involved but quite often simply gets in the way.
2) Aluko. Can’t control or cross a ball. Doesn’t track back and as soon as he loses the ball wanders into the centre circle and leaves the wing exposed, repeat.
Does Clement have a plan b? When Bod got injured in the warm up, he just got Meite to fill in from the bench. They are not like for like so surely you would look at the whole squad set up when having to make a change like that?
Oh and I call bs on ‘I didn’t get the selection right’ . You could see how this was going to play out in the first ten minutes, why did it take more than two thirds of the match to make changes if you thought it wasn’t right?
Had to cancel WBA as I’m not spending the best part of £100 to look at the team at 2pm and see those same names starting again to create another insipid performance especially when it seems the majority can see the problem that Clement can’t.



Amen to all of that.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by LWJ » 03 Oct 2018 09:35

Somebody explain to me what Kelly does to avoid criticism to the extent of Aluko/Gunter?

The kid is so far out his depth it's unbelievable. Spent most the first half on the last line of defenders, or bottling challengers, or losing the ball or doing fcuk all.

Swift showed us what an actual midfielder does when they move towards the ball and allow people to run in behind /create space etc...

Get rid of the little prick, he's only gone backwards in the last 2 years. Conference football awaits you, Liam.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Whore Jackie » 03 Oct 2018 09:36

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They were both standing on the touch line for about three minutes before the fakes had their corners though.

Did the ball go out of play in that time?

Before QPRs first corner but after Swift and Sims had been confirmed as coming on? Yes for a throw in in the QPR half.


He even had the opportunity to make the change when we had our corner. There was at least 4 chances to make the change, understand him not wanting to make the change with QPR's 2 corners, but there were 2 opportunities before that. No surprise whatsoever that QPR scored during that period.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by RoyalBlue » 03 Oct 2018 09:39

andrew1957 I try to be positive but I have to say that when I heard that Aluko was playing my enthusiasm was dented. And he was truly awful yet again. I try not to knock individual players but it is really hard to see how Aluko can ever start another game for RFC. It was as though we were playing with 10 men until he went off. To be fair to Clement he has just said he got the team selection wrong on BBCRB.

Sadly the referee did not allow the double sub until after QPR scored and then it was too late for Swift and Sims to make a difference as QPR sat back and Reading have found it impossible to break down teams this season once we go behind.

You cannot fault most of the players for effort but we lack quality at the moment. Meite sums it all up - 100% effort but little quality. At least he tries really hard.


I thought the ref was pretty poor and the East Stand linesman might as well have not bothered turning up.

However, the ref cannot be blamed for the delay in the substitution. That was entirely down to Clement. Firstly those two players should've started the game. Failing that they should've been brought on during the first half when the team and particularly Kelly were performing so badly.

When Clement finally woke up he then delayed bringing the subs on because we were 'defending' (loose use of the term) at the time and perceived wisdom is that you don't bring on subs when you are defending.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by genome » 03 Oct 2018 09:47

Dr_Hfuhruhurr
NewCorkSeth
Dr_Hfuhruhurr Is there a good resource for points per game by player? I'd like to see what they are for Aluko and how'd they compare. Normally I roll my eyes at Scape goats but can't help feeling this one might be justified.

Whoscored is pretty good usually but I wouldn't rely too much on stats. They're cold and unfeeling.


I don't know, I had a look on there just now and their top 5 and bottom 5 by player rating pretty much match the top 5 hero's and villains on here. Couldn't see PPG. Maybe because I'm on my phone. I'm bringing it up because I'm expecting his to be quite low so would actually be cold unfeeling stats supporting your stance. I remember when Andy Hughes was a scapegoat, however and his PPG was the best in the whole squad so the Team Board isn't always correct.


Bored this morning so worked it out, from when he joined up to now. "With Aluko" is with games where he started and played most of the 90, if not all. "Without Aluko" is games where he was either not in the squad or came on as a sub in the 2nd half.

With Aluko - P47 W9 D16 L22 - PPG - 0.91
Without Aluko - P5 W1 D0 L4 - PPG - 0.6

Sample size isn't huge for without him but is quite funny that our PPG is worse.
Last edited by genome on 03 Oct 2018 09:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Zip » 03 Oct 2018 09:48

Maneki Neko lol at people expecting a team who have been consistently and utterly awful for ages to suddenly turn it around and win every game playing attractive football.
It will be two baby steps forward and 1 baby step back for most of this season. don't get too ahead of ourselves when we win, don't go doolally metal when we lose.


Nope that’s untrue. I do though expect the team to turn up looking motivated and being more organised that a youth team(reference our continuing dreadful marking at corners).

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Re: BFT - I don’t know what to call it

by Old Man Andrews » 03 Oct 2018 09:50

LWJ Somebody explain to me what Kelly does to avoid criticism to the extent of Aluko/Gunter?

The kid is so far out his depth it's unbelievable. Spent most the first half on the last line of defenders, or bottling challengers, or losing the ball or doing fcuk all.

Swift showed us what an actual midfielder does when they move towards the ball and allow people to run in behind /create space etc...

Get rid of the little prick, he's only gone backwards in the last 2 years. Conference football awaits you, Liam.


Great post, fully agree.

Liam Kelly is an idle little urchin who should be playing non-league football. Jaap Stam blew smoke up his arse and he now thinks he is some sort of footballing god and I think genuinely believes has made it in the game. He should not be anywhere near the team after his display last night and his lack of overall effort this season. Would much rather Rinhomota came in and took his place.

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