BFTG West Brom

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 10:18

Old Man Andrews Bacuna is a better player than Williams..........

Heard it all now.

Williams couldn't pass a ball further than 10 feet and frquently took long shots that had no hope did going in.

The rose tinted glasses are strong today.

I liked him but don't think he was as good as Bacuna in any area other than effort.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Brum Royal » 08 Oct 2018 10:28

I've not seen the game or highlights yet, but just wanted to offer some thoughts. From what I've seen so far Walker looks a solid keeper, made some good saves at Preston, and again in the QPR defeat, and yet from the comments on here you'd think he was Peter van der Kwaak reincarnated. I'm a keeper myself, and keepers are always the ones to get the harshest criticism as our mistakes normally end up costing goals, but one bad game (half?) does not suddenly mean he should never be seen in a Reading team again. If we're trying to build a settled team/squad we need to give players a chance and not drop them at the first mistake, otherwise players will always be in fear of their place and never relax into the role and perform. If this was the second or third mistake then maybe we look at going back to Mannone, but for now I think we need to stick with Walker and give him the next few games. After all, Mannone has made three or four mistakes during his time with us.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Coppells Lost Coat » 08 Oct 2018 10:45

Brum Royal I've not seen the game or highlights yet, but just wanted to offer some thoughts. From what I've seen so far Walker looks a solid keeper, made some good saves at Preston, and again in the QPR defeat, and yet from the comments on here you'd think he was Peter van der Kwaak reincarnated. I'm a keeper myself, and keepers are always the ones to get the harshest criticism as our mistakes normally end up costing goals, but one bad game (half?) does not suddenly mean he should never be seen in a Reading team again. If we're trying to build a settled team/squad we need to give players a chance and not drop them at the first mistake, otherwise players will always be in fear of their place and never relax into the role and perform. If this was the second or third mistake then maybe we look at going back to Mannone, but for now I think we need to stick with Walker and give him the next few games. After all, Mannone has made three or four mistakes during his time with us.


If you watch replay of the first goal - Walker that allows to ball to drop in his 6 yard area for a tap in at the far post - this is a very basic error. You should never let a ball bounce in your 6 yard box at any circumstance. As a player you'd expect the keeper to claim this every time therefore they switched off allowing Gayle to nod in. His position before the ball come in was a bit questionable too.
He has been no worse than Mannone - communication is key and commanding your area is vital. Both don't do it for me. But Walker is still learning and should keep his spot.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by John Smith » 08 Oct 2018 11:41

NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2018 11:43

John Smith
NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.


If he sticks with Walker after that horror show on Saturday at home to Millwall and he makes further mistakes that cost us the game does Clement go then?


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Re: BFTG West Brom

by John Smith » 08 Oct 2018 11:54

Old Man Andrews
John Smith
NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.


If he sticks with Walker after that horror show on Saturday at home to Millwall and he makes further mistakes that cost us the game does Clement go then?

I think he gets until Swansea (a) on 27th October. If we lose the next 3, he goes.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2018 11:56

John Smith
Old Man Andrews
John Smith This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.


If he sticks with Walker after that horror show on Saturday at home to Millwall and he makes further mistakes that cost us the game does Clement go then?

I think he gets until Swansea (a) on 27th October. If we lose the next 3, he goes.


Yeah probably a fair timescale.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 12:05

John Smith
NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.

I really think that a first team of:
----------------------GK
Yiadom--Moore---Ilori--Obita
-----------------Ezatolahi
-------------Bacuna--Swift
AMR----------------------------Barrow
----------------Bodvarson

Or:
---------------------GK
---------Ilori----Moore---Blackett
Yiadom-------Ezatolahi--------Obita
-----------Bacuna------Swift
-------Bodvarson-----Baldock

Would be fully capable of surviving and potentially thriving under a better manager.
Obviously he doesn't have Obita which has created some problems but it's Clements lack of ability that has hurt us so much. The team was been dreadful but in the last few games it has been really hard to criticise the individual players for the most part. Ilori and Moore have both been decent, Yiadom has been very good, the midfield 3 when selected have for the most part been very good (Bacuna noticeably at his worst when paired with Kelly).

It has to be Clement. The falling to pieces after half time despite being noticeably fit, the throwing away of leads, the constantly rotating starting 11, the substitutions, the recent downturn in defending set pieces... I can't see how it's not his fault.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Hound » 08 Oct 2018 12:28

Agree in the main, but its only just become apparent to him what the best team is. Eza only joined a couple of games ago really, Swift was iffy early season as was Bacuna

For me, he gets a month with this team, if Bod and Baldock are fully fit, possibly up to December if we scrape a small number of points.

though think realistically we discount Obita for the foreseeable. More complications with his knee, not coming back any time soon. Can't see him lining up this calendar year. Even then, be a while before he gets back to standard


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Re: West Brom (A) - Leaving the game/back from the game

by massifheed » 08 Oct 2018 12:38

Sutekh Oh well, it has to pick up some time so looking forward to Millwall and seeing a million percent better performance.


The only thing that I remember about Millwall at home last season was their away lot shouting, 'You're f*cking SHIT!'' at us.

We were.

I'll expect the same next time.

:roll:

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Oct 2018 13:28

Neutral ratings and comments from the Football League Paper might be of interest:-

Walker 6- Not busy in the first half, but overwhelmed in second
Ilori 5 -Another who went missing when Gayle scored the first
Moore 6-No messing, booted away from line when Reading exposed
Blackett 6-Gave ball away and set up Gayle chance he narrowly missed
Gunter 5-Where was he when Gayle got his equaliser?
Bacuna 7-Excellent angled left foot drive for his early goal
Ezatolahi 5-Took stick from team-mate Moore for giving ball away
Yiadom 5-Got forward for a shot that bounced off Johnstone's legs
Swift 6-Well rehearsed corner-kick routine with Bacuna worked once
Meite 5-Took a blow on the head from Bartley. No other headaches
McNulty 5-Looking for first Reading goal, shot wide from first half chance

Quote from Darren Moore:-
"We finished very strongly. Reading tired and the gaps opened up.
We finished Reading off."

Clement in stating the bleeding obvious said:-
"We did well in the first half, but we didn't have enough to contain them in the second half.
Now we have to make a bigger step when we come back after the international break"

In a separate article confirming Meite signing a new 4 year deal Clement said:-
"Yakou is a strong, powerful, versatile attack-minded player who has demonstrated he is capable of playing in a number of different positions on the pitch.
At 22 years of age , he is a player who I believe will continue to improve and I am very pleased he has committed to a new contract at the club"

Obviously this is fantastic news for the club as Meite goes on to be the new Thierry Henry......or maybe not.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Coppells Lost Coat » 08 Oct 2018 13:44

Victor Meldrew Neutral ratings and comments from the Football League Paper might be of interest:-

Walker 6- Not busy in the first half, but overwhelmed in second
Ilori 5 -Another who went missing when Gayle scored the first
Moore 6-No messing, booted away from line when Reading exposed
Blackett 6-Gave ball away and set up Gayle chance he narrowly missed
Gunter 5-Where was he when Gayle got his equaliser?
Bacuna 7-Excellent angled left foot drive for his early goal
Ezatolahi 5-Took stick from team-mate Moore for giving ball away
Yiadom 5-Got forward for a shot that bounced off Johnstone's legs
Swift 6-Well rehearsed corner-kick routine with Bacuna worked once
Meite 5-Took a blow on the head from Bartley. No other headaches
McNulty 5-Looking for first Reading goal, shot wide from first half chance



Aaaaah, Gunter or Ilori should have caught the ball for the first goal, gotcha.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Oct 2018 13:50

Coppells Lost Coat
Victor Meldrew Neutral ratings and comments from the Football League Paper might be of interest:-

Walker 6- Not busy in the first half, but overwhelmed in second
Ilori 5 -Another who went missing when Gayle scored the first
Moore 6-No messing, booted away from line when Reading exposed
Blackett 6-Gave ball away and set up Gayle chance he narrowly missed
Gunter 5-Where was he when Gayle got his equaliser?
Bacuna 7-Excellent angled left foot drive for his early goal
Ezatolahi 5-Took stick from team-mate Moore for giving ball away
Yiadom 5-Got forward for a shot that bounced off Johnstone's legs
Swift 6-Well rehearsed corner-kick routine with Bacuna worked once
Meite 5-Took a blow on the head from Bartley. No other headaches
McNulty 5-Looking for first Reading goal, shot wide from first half chance



Aaaaah, Gunter or Ilori should have caught the ball for the first goal, gotcha.


Presumably the writer thought that one of those had a chance to deal with it first-only having seen it once I can't comment but what I do know is that our defenders are notorious for not taking responsibility and time after time we see them looking around at each other after yet another goal has been scored wondering who should have done something about it..


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Re: BFTG West Brom

by RoyalBlue » 08 Oct 2018 13:53

John Smith
NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?



A keeper of questionable quality who we are led to believe Clement was keen to sign having worked with him previously? I think that has something to do with Clement.

Old Man Andrews

Re: BFTG West Brom

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Oct 2018 13:53

RoyalBlue
John Smith
NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?



A keeper of questionable quality who we are led to believe Clement was keen to sign having worked with him previously? I think that has something to do with Clement.


Don't he and Walker share an agent?

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Stranded » 08 Oct 2018 14:05

NewCorkSeth
John Smith
NewCorkSeth A front 2 of Bod and Baldock would have changed that game immeasurably.

Sadly I think it's time to put Mannone back in. After the last game I expressed my doubts about Walkers distribution and several people on here had posted about his aerial ability. His experience is showing and Mannone is just slightly better.

The question for me is should we persists with this formation with Bod and Baldock back (potentially losing a player who is out of form but very strong when at his best in Barrow) or revert back to the familiar 4-3-2-1 that I love so much and hope Aluko never plays again?

This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.

I really think that a first team of:
----------------------GK
Yiadom--Moore---Ilori--Obita
-----------------Ezatolahi
-------------Bacuna--Swift
AMR----------------------------Barrow
----------------Bodvarson

Or:
---------------------GK
---------Ilori----Moore---Blackett
Yiadom-------Ezatolahi--------Obita
-----------Bacuna------Swift
-------Bodvarson-----Baldock



It has to be Clement. The falling to pieces after half time despite being noticeably fit, the throwing away of leads, the constantly rotating starting 11, the substitutions, the recent downturn in defending set pieces... I can't see how it's not his fault.


Some of the chopping and changes have been due to injury - do you really think we would have started with Meite and McNulty at the weekend if Bod and Baldock were fit? If O'Shea hadn't have been sent off, I think he would still be in the team but Gunter has done OK since being dropped. My only issue has been that Aluko was recalled v QPR and I think PC accepted that was a major error after the game and by the fact he was bombed out on Sat. Swift had a knock after Brentford so not starting v QPR made sense if so.

The players have to take the blame for Saturday predominantly because of their reaction to the equaliser. Clement sent out the team to play a certain way in the 1st half which was effective and arguably led to our best 45 mins this season - so he and the players should get credit for that.

I really don't know what PC or anyone can do about the mental aspect that we really seem to struggle with at the mo, this squad has a losing mentality that is very difficult to turn around. You see that every goal is essentially a kick in the balls for them and they don't know how to react, only at Preston did we react positively to the opposition getting back on terms. Until this team manage to either turn a game around or even bounce back to win when a team equalises then we are fubared. Seems at the moment, we need to get 2 or more up for the players to relax and see the game out.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Victor Meldrew » 08 Oct 2018 14:16

Stranded
NewCorkSeth
John Smith This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.

I really think that a first team of:
----------------------GK
Yiadom--Moore---Ilori--Obita
-----------------Ezatolahi
-------------Bacuna--Swift
AMR----------------------------Barrow
----------------Bodvarson

Or:
---------------------GK
---------Ilori----Moore---Blackett
Yiadom-------Ezatolahi--------Obita
-----------Bacuna------Swift
-------Bodvarson-----Baldock



It has to be Clement. The falling to pieces after half time despite being noticeably fit, the throwing away of leads, the constantly rotating starting 11, the substitutions, the recent downturn in defending set pieces... I can't see how it's not his fault.


Some of the chopping and changes have been due to injury - do you really think we would have started with Meite and McNulty at the weekend if Bod and Baldock were fit? If O'Shea hadn't have been sent off, I think he would still be in the team but Gunter has done OK since being dropped. My only issue has been that Aluko was recalled v QPR and I think PC accepted that was a major error after the game and by the fact he was bombed out on Sat. Swift had a knock after Brentford so not starting v QPR made sense if so.

The players have to take the blame for Saturday predominantly because of their reaction to the equaliser. Clement sent out the team to play a certain way in the 1st half which was effective and arguably led to our best 45 mins this season - so he and the players should get credit for that.

I really don't know what PC or anyone can do about the mental aspect that we really seem to struggle with at the mo, this squad has a losing mentality that is very difficult to turn around. You see that every goal is essentially a kick in the balls for them and they don't know how to react, only at Preston did we react positively to the opposition getting back on terms. Until this team manage to either turn a game around or even bounce back to win when a team equalises then we are fubared. Seems at the moment, we need to get 2 or more up for the players to relax and see the game out.


The late, great Bill Shankly always said that before signing a player he wanted to know as much about him and his character as he could discover.
He said that anybody could see a player's ability on the pitch so there was nothing difficult in spotting a good player but it was so important to know more about the individual.

It seems to me that players are now sometimes bought on video evidence only and that the old boy was right-you might buy an Aluko or a Blackett if you saw him have a good game but you might not buy him if you knew more about the player as a person.
I think the best managers do ask around using contacts within the game but it doesn't look as though ours have with a number of our signings in recent times.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by Stranded » 08 Oct 2018 14:23

Victor Meldrew
The late, great Bill Shankly always said that before signing a player he wanted to know as much about him and his character as he could discover.
He said that anybody could see a player's ability on the pitch so there was nothing difficult in spotting a good player but it was so important to know more about the individual.

It seems to me that players are now sometimes bought on video evidence only and that the old boy was right-you might buy an Aluko or a Blackett if you saw him have a good game but you might not buy him if you knew more about the player as a person.
I think the best managers do ask around using contacts within the game but it doesn't look as though ours have with a number of our signings in recent times.


Fair point but PC signed neither of those and bar Ezatholi (arguably the best signing) we can't say for sure that any of his signings were purchased just on video footage.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Oct 2018 14:32

Stranded
NewCorkSeth
John Smith This is why it's unfair to blame the manager when clearly the squad is total dross and not one combination of the players is the solution. Mannone was rightly dropped when he was but now he might be put back in. What's Clement to do when his keeper is watching crosses go over his head at 1-0 up away from home?

I think we need a big January to recruit one of every position and accept any offers for any players bar Yiadom and Bacuna.

I really think that a first team of:
----------------------GK
Yiadom--Moore---Ilori--Obita
-----------------Ezatolahi
-------------Bacuna--Swift
AMR----------------------------Barrow
----------------Bodvarson

Or:
---------------------GK
---------Ilori----Moore---Blackett
Yiadom-------Ezatolahi--------Obita
-----------Bacuna------Swift
-------Bodvarson-----Baldock



It has to be Clement. The falling to pieces after half time despite being noticeably fit, the throwing away of leads, the constantly rotating starting 11, the substitutions, the recent downturn in defending set pieces... I can't see how it's not his fault.


Some of the chopping and changes have been due to injury - do you really think we would have started with Meite and McNulty at the weekend if Bod and Baldock were fit? If O'Shea hadn't have been sent off, I think he would still be in the team but Gunter has done OK since being dropped. My only issue has been that Aluko was recalled v QPR and I think PC accepted that was a major error after the game and by the fact he was bombed out on Sat. Swift had a knock after Brentford so not starting v QPR made sense if so.

The players have to take the blame for Saturday predominantly because of their reaction to the equaliser. Clement sent out the team to play a certain way in the 1st half which was effective and arguably led to our best 45 mins this season - so he and the players should get credit for that.

I really don't know what PC or anyone can do about the mental aspect that we really seem to struggle with at the mo, this squad has a losing mentality that is very difficult to turn around. You see that every goal is essentially a kick in the balls for them and they don't know how to react, only at Preston did we react positively to the opposition getting back on terms. Until this team manage to either turn a game around or even bounce back to win when a team equalises then we are fubared. Seems at the moment, we need to get 2 or more up for the players to relax and see the game out.

Certainly some of the chopping and changing is down to injury but there are several examples: the dropping of Ilori for McShane being one despite Ilori being in good form, the swapping of Yiadom to the left to accommodate the equally capable on the left Gunter upon his return from injury, the constant use of Meite as a fill in which I believe will hinder his growth.

Of course I wouldn't expect Meite and McNulty to start when our other options are fit but their failure to work together should have been noted by Clement by half time. Everyone focused on the positivity of our first half performance without noting the glaring issues. A good manager would have changed it up sooner. Once it got to 1-1 there should have been a change. We needed to take the rhythm away from West Brom (something other managers do to us often a successfully).

We had control of midfield, better fitness levels by some distance (I can see West Brom fading this season as half their players looked wrecked) and never looked like scoring despite having 2 up front.

Barrow was not good when he was brought on but should have been brought on much sooner. They had such slow defenders who could easily have been overwhelmed by the sudden introduction of Barrow but again Clement waited.

I don't think PC can do anything about this simply because he doesn't have the ability to. He has no motivation skills from what I can see and is showing time and time again he is too naive on match day.

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Re: BFTG West Brom

by John Smith » 08 Oct 2018 14:42

NewCorkSeth Barrow was not good when he was brought on but should have been brought on much sooner.

Right, so you thought he should have come on sooner so he could have been worse sooner?

Fold your account and go and post on the Yeovil Town forum instead.

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