Are we really going down this season

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Victor Meldrew
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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Victor Meldrew » 05 Dec 2018 11:40

Back to the OP rather than the issue of Clement staying or going which is well covered under the other topic.
To me currently this feels like a relegation side as often relegation sides play well up to a point but just don't accumulate enough wins and draws to survive, they are the regular "unlucky" losers.

As I see it we do need new players in January as this lot as a whole just can't hack it.
We are pinning our hopes on an (injured) Iranian that we have seen just briefly and a young lad who has just come into our midfield and hasn't had to do much to look better than who has played there this season-a word of caution, Kuhl and Kelly started brightly.

I agree with vision that Clement has not been "brave" he is just desperate and sometimes managerial decisions made out of desperation (Fergie's youngsters of the early 90s) can turn out trumps so let's hope that Rhino and Loader do just that for the sake of our chances.

I don't see this improvement that posters have gone on about-I see a team that fails to take the game to the opposition until they have to, again out of desperation (Ipswich and Stoke) rather than being confident enough to be proactive.
This is surely a combination of managerial tactics and players' lack of confidence in their ability, if indeed they have the ability or bottle over 90 minutes.
So, we will see over these coming weeks if we can stay in touch or even make some progress up the table but I agree with those that say that we need reinforcements and those are needed as first-teamers from the off rather than squad players-we have enough of those already.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Hound » 05 Dec 2018 11:52

It’s a valid opinion Victor, can see the point. I’m still very worried by the regular non- performances - ie Ipswich first half

Do people not think it was brave or PC to go back to Rino after his poor display against Ipswich? Would have been far easier to drag Meyler back in

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Barney » 05 Dec 2018 13:10

Are we really going down ? I reckon it's a 50% chance. We are fighting it out with around 6 others. It will go to the wire.

Will we finish bottom 6 ? Highly likely

Is going down "good" for us? Absolutely NOT. Going down would be a total disaster.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Coppells Lost Coat » 05 Dec 2018 13:33

I can see it going like it did last season - think there will be a few worse teams than us. We'll pick up points against the teams we expect to get none in.
There is more fight in this squad than last year and that might (hopefully) be enough. There is talent in this side but it lets down massively in the application / attitude of a few.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by tee peg » 05 Dec 2018 14:12

Getting rid of the CEO has had a positive effect all round and hopefully this will be reflected on the pitch.
Personally I think it will be a close call.


andrew1957
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Re: Are we really going down this season

by andrew1957 » 05 Dec 2018 18:12

Barney Are we really going down ? I reckon it's a 50% chance. We are fighting it out with around 6 others. It will go to the wire.

Will we finish bottom 6 ? Highly likely

Is going down "good" for us? Absolutely NOT. Going down would be a total disaster.


Not sure I completely agree about going down being all bad.

There are two possibilities going forwards. 1/ that Clement gradually turns things round and we use the next two window's to get rid of a lot of poor players and rebuild or 2/ we go down in which case we will hopefully be able to get rid of even more overrated and overpaid players. We bring through players from the Academy and we rebuild from the bottom up. Personally I feel the Championship has become a drudge watching a poor side losing most games - as we have just not been able to compete at this level for several years (bar the first season under Stam which was a bit of an aberration). So a year or two winning a few games in League 1 might be relatively enjoyable for us fans.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Mid Sussex Royal » 05 Dec 2018 18:28

At the end of the day its 50--50...points totals and comparing to previous seasons is irrelevant; all we have to do is finish higher than three teams which we are currently doing - just.

Ipswich have gone back to early season form already and I don't rate Lambert at all, they will go down, as are Bolton this time round.

So its whether we can finish above probably Millwall, Rotherham or Hull or anyone else who goes bad from now.....

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Zip » 05 Dec 2018 18:50

Victor Meldrew Back to the OP rather than the issue of Clement staying or going which is well covered under the other topic.
To me currently this feels like a relegation side as often relegation sides play well up to a point but just don't accumulate enough wins and draws to survive, they are the regular "unlucky" losers.

As I see it we do need new players in January as this lot as a whole just can't hack it.
We are pinning our hopes on an (injured) Iranian that we have seen just briefly and a young lad who has just come into our midfield and hasn't had to do much to look better than who has played there this season-a word of caution, Kuhl and Kelly started brightly.

I agree with vision that Clement has not been "brave" he is just desperate and sometimes managerial decisions made out of desperation (Fergie's youngsters of the early 90s) can turn out trumps so let's hope that Rhino and Loader do just that for the sake of our chances.

I don't see this improvement that posters have gone on about-I see a team that fails to take the game to the opposition until they have to, again out of desperation (Ipswich and Stoke) rather than being confident enough to be proactive.
This is surely a combination of managerial tactics and players' lack of confidence in their ability, if indeed they have the ability or bottle over 90 minutes.
So, we will see over these coming weeks if we can stay in touch or even make some progress up the table but I agree with those that say that we need reinforcements and those are needed as first-teamers from the off rather than squad players-we have enough of those already.


Yes fully agreed with all of this.Where is this improvement? We are averaging less than a point a game which is absolutely relegation form. Yes we are improving going forward but it’s completely negated by our defending which is getting worse.
Yes our home form is improving but it’s negated by our shocking away form. If we go down it will be damaging and painful and I suspect our promising young players would be sold on.
I for one do not want Clement still manager if we go down. He will have completely failed.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Zip » 05 Dec 2018 18:54

andrew1957
Barney Are we really going down ? I reckon it's a 50% chance. We are fighting it out with around 6 others. It will go to the wire.

Will we finish bottom 6 ? Highly likely

Is going down "good" for us? Absolutely NOT. Going down would be a total disaster.


Not sure I completely agree about going down being all bad.

There are two possibilities going forwards. 1/ that Clement gradually turns things round and we use the next two window's to get rid of a lot of poor players and rebuild or 2/ we go down in which case we will hopefully be able to get rid of even more overrated and overpaid players. We bring through players from the Academy and we rebuild from the bottom up. Personally I feel the Championship has become a drudge watching a poor side losing most games - as we have just not been able to compete at this level for several years (bar the first season under Stam which was a bit of an aberration). So a year or two winning a few games in League 1 might be relatively enjoyable for us fans.


There is no guarantee in what you say. Whose to say our manager would want to bring through Academy players in Lesgue One? Whose to say we would do well in League One? We could continue to drop down through the divisions. What would happen to our Academy if we went down? We certainly would struggle to attract youngsters if we were in the lower divisions.

Relegation would be disastrous imho.


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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Barney » 05 Dec 2018 19:06

Relegation is disastrous in every sense. Forget about the "odd bit of fun" about local derbies. Financially it is a killer.
Crowds decrease, sponsorship decreases, Sky money decreases...and there is no guarantee about getting promoted back.

I can not even begin to think that during the 70s, 80s, 90s etc that ANYONE would even think relegation is a good thing !

I would rather start on zero points next August with every other club in the championship rather than every other club in League One.

Ye gods. It took us decades to become an established team in the top two divisions. NO WAY is relegation good. I can't even believe I need to stress this.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Armadillo Roadkill » 05 Dec 2018 19:11

I don't think there's much chance of relegation, although of course, nothing is impossible.

In fact I'd say mid table is the most likely. We will get some players back.The youngsters will get more experience. The atmosphere behind the scenes will lift.

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Zip
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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Zip » 05 Dec 2018 19:11

Barney Relegation is disastrous in every sense. Forget about the "odd bit of fun" about local derbies. Financially it is a killer.
Crowds decrease, sponsorship decreases, Sky money decreases...and there is no guarantee about getting promoted back.

I can not even begin to think that during the 70s, 80s, 90s etc that ANYONE would even think relegation is a good thing !

I would rather start on zero points next August with every other club in the championship rather than every other club in League One.

Ye gods. It took us decades to become an established team in the top two divisions. NO WAY is relegation good. I can't even believe I need to stress this.


Yep it’s bizarre.

Victor Meldrew
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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Victor Meldrew » 05 Dec 2018 19:28

Armadillo Roadkill I don't think there's much chance of relegation, although of course, nothing is impossible.

In fact I'd say mid table is the most likely. We will get some players back.The youngsters will get more experience. The atmosphere behind the scenes will lift.



You sound as convincing as Theresa May.


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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Hound » 05 Dec 2018 20:35

Victor Meldrew
Armadillo Roadkill I don't think there's much chance of relegation, although of course, nothing is impossible.

In fact I'd say mid table is the most likely. We will get some players back.The youngsters will get more experience. The atmosphere behind the scenes will lift.



You sound as convincing as Theresa May.


Maybe, but I agree

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Snowflake Royal » 05 Dec 2018 21:09

Zip
Barney Relegation is disastrous in every sense. Forget about the "odd bit of fun" about local derbies. Financially it is a killer.
Crowds decrease, sponsorship decreases, Sky money decreases...and there is no guarantee about getting promoted back.

I can not even begin to think that during the 70s, 80s, 90s etc that ANYONE would even think relegation is a good thing !

I would rather start on zero points next August with every other club in the championship rather than every other club in League One.

Ye gods. It took us decades to become an established team in the top two divisions. NO WAY is relegation good. I can't even believe I need to stress this.


Yep it’s bizarre.

It's in no way certainly a disaster. Many teams bounce back fine. And I think we'd get at least a similar number in the stadium as now for a year or two finishing 7th to 12th in League One.

It could be a disaster. It might be a minor blip that we come back stronger from.

But unless something changes (and that being the manager again isn't likely to do the job) we're going down sooner or later anyway.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Westwood52 » 06 Dec 2018 14:27

Until a couple of hours ago, I put it at 60/40 to go down-now with the right Manager and dead cat bounce-plus possible points drops for Brum and Bolton; I think 50/50 , is more realistic.

Last season , I thought we had 5 top class Championship players; Alukho, Bacuna, Barrow, Moore and Swift.
This season you can add the returning McCleary.

However:
Alukho : Given the amount we paid-hugely disappointing. I keep on waiting for a performance; but after a season and a half it just hasn't come at any time (apart from that goal against QPR ). I don't think he wants to be here, and if someone offers £1to £2 mill in January, I would snap it up.

Bacuna: generally poor last season-but for some reason a considerable improvement this year-however if Bruce comes-he will probably want to go.

Barrow: Did more than OK last year and our best and most dangerous player. He did not get on with Clement; so with luck the new man will get the best of Barrow (which can be plenty) back.

Moore: Since the Wet Sham interest last year end , his form has gone off scale.The Super Man of the Play Off season has just gone. He wants out.If Brighton offer somewhere around £10 mill, I would now take it and spend it on a £5 mill CB and £5 mill LB if they are available.

Swift: Since his England injury , he has been generally poor; with the odd 20 mins here and there when he dominates games. What a new Man cannot do-is improve his lack of pace and physicality.

Macca: When he first came back-I thought we had the old Macca. Dont know whether he was running on adrenaline (which has now expired) or he has now realised Clement hasnt got a clue.

WE cannot spend a load of money in January ; unless Moore and Alukho are off loaded;Gourlay admitted last year we were borderline encroaching on FFP. A specialist LB however is an absolute requirement. Blackett may now be needed at CB, Gunter has gone to pieces, Richards is a defensive liability and it is expecting a lot of Obita(who at best was only ever average to fair ) after a year out , to hit the ground running.


The new Man has enough there in the squad to just about get us through-whether he is good enough and we get the right man; is another matter.
Despite views to the contrary;relegation would be a disaster-with all the above quality players (at least by reputation); going (along with a lot of staff)-we will simply no longer be able to afford paying individual players £1 mill plus salaries.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by andrew1957 » 23 Dec 2018 15:11

When Clement was here most seemed to think we had a 50 50 chance of staying up. I reckon that with recent results and a manager who will have to adapt to this division we are now 95% to go down.

And I used to be called an RTG.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by sandman » 23 Dec 2018 15:41

Yes, because even when we have a good performance like Yesterday we still lose.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by maffff » 23 Dec 2018 17:25

think we're getting closer to reasonable performances turning into results. Won't be cut and dry, but think we'll finish a few places above relegation. Won't be down to the last day again.

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Re: Are we really going down this season

by Lower West » 23 Dec 2018 18:09

sandman Yes, because even when we have a good performance like Yesterday we still lose.


Better performance than many. Still too many careless passes / errors. No ability to adapt when under a high press. Never keep clean sheets if you gift the opposition the ball close to your own box. Lack of a cutting offensive edge to create good chances. All signs of a team that's struggling.

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