José Gomes whelmguage

How much whelm?

Overwhelmed
11
9%
Whelmed
32
25%
Underwhelmed
14
11%
Confused as fcuk
55
43%
Ian Royal
15
12%
 
Total votes: 127
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72 bus
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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by 72 bus » 23 Dec 2018 17:41

Snowball
CountryRoyal It’s funny how everyone is of the same opinion we haven’t heard one person saying “I’m sure the people in charge are much more qualified to make these decisions than you”. It makes a pleasant change.


Usually I WOULD say that but the Chinese owners
have never talked up their football knowledge,
the CEO is not "big on" football knowledge, and
we don't currently have anyone obvious with the
necessary knowledge who is CLEARLY in post


The Chinese own three football clubs the first of which they bought over six years ago, they know more about football than most on here.
The CEO has been involved in the running of Reading FC for over 20 years, is also the Nephew of Don howe so you could say football runs in the family, his son plays for the academy so I imagine the topic of football comes up quite often in the Howe household. trust me he knows a bit about football.

None of these folks are new to the business of running football clubs.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowball » 23 Dec 2018 17:50

72 bus
Snowball
CountryRoyal It’s funny how everyone is of the same opinion we haven’t heard one person saying “I’m sure the people in charge are much more qualified to make these decisions than you”. It makes a pleasant change.


Usually I WOULD say that but the Chinese owners
have never talked up their football knowledge,
the CEO is not "big on" football knowledge, and
we don't currently have anyone obvious with the
necessary knowledge who is CLEARLY in post


The Chinese own three football clubs the first of which they bought over six years ago, they know more about football than most on here.
The CEO has been involved in the running of Reading FC for over 20 years, is also the Nephew of Don howe so you could say football runs in the family, his son plays for the academy so I imagine the topic of football comes up quite often in the Howe household. trust me he knows a bit about football.

None of these folks are new to the business of running football clubs.



and they know an awesome amount about obscure Portugese managers

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Lower West
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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Lower West » 23 Dec 2018 17:57

Denver Royal If in fact we 'did a Wolves', would everyone be happy?


Co-incidence that both men managed Rio Ave. Though Nuno Espírito Santo went on to be successfull at both Valencia and Porto before moving to Wolves. In terms of CV. Different leagues.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Gunny Fishcake » 23 Dec 2018 18:09

Lower West
Denver Royal If in fact we 'did a Wolves', would everyone be happy?


Co-incidence that both men managed Rio Ave. Though Nuno Espírito Santo went on to be successfull at both Valencia and Porto before moving to Wolves. In terms of CV. Different leagues.


I think comparing us to those w*nkers in the West Midlands is not right . They have that so called super agent Jorge Mendes who gets top players for no commission as the Chinese billionaire owner pays him more than enough bent dollars . The club is totally corrupt and flouting all the rule on agents but the bent Prem League don't give toss. My hatred of W*lves is based on the abuse and physical attacks by their scum supporters on many trips there. Anyhow what's unfortunately happened to them will not happen to us.

My conspiracy theory is this ploy is to drive the club into administration , fold us up and develop the land all around the Madjeski .......I'm kidding.....I think.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Dec 2018 19:02

Snowball
CountryRoyal
Snowball Ask some questions

1 Prior to his emergence RFC-wise, how could anyone UK-Based have ever heard of this guy?

2 IF they did, why would they, after looking at his record, think, "Excellent Record in the past" or "Wow, promising manager"?

3 What, specifically, in his record, suggests he ought to be a good manager ANYWHERE, let alone the Championship?

4 Why do people say, "First thing he needs to do is sort out our defence" when his record (and the words of Portuguese pundits) say he is not good defensively?

What I see is a shock signing, one which, at first look, makes zero sense; but what worries me far more is where/how did this idea come to the Chinese (football-blind?) owners?

It smacks of skullduggery, someone in the ear of the owners, someone with a personal agenda, who I suggest with 95% certainty, could not give a toss about the future of Reading FC. It looks, sounds and feels either corrupt or bonkers.


Yep, I'm not one for looking for conspiracies at every possible point, but this appointment makes absolutely zero sense from a footballing perspective. Just utterly baffling.


I would be curious to hear some answers from Nobbers.

Of course there's a 10% chance that the miracle will happen, but I want to hear of evidence BEFORE we start playing games

The best you'll likely see is 'don't write him off because x was good at y unexpectedly', which is rather dissatisfying.

I'm not saying he'll definitely fail, but I also see precisely zero evidence to suggest he can succeed. I'd be interested to hear what the opinion at other clubs is. I expect it's rather wtf and lol.


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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Dec 2018 19:08

Snowball Just to go on record...

When we start looking at Gomes' RFC statistics what is fair?

Include every game? (He can hardly have much effect by Wednesday or Saturday)

Ignore the first two games?


I am going to write off the Millwall-QPR games in terms of his stats.

I'm saying so NOW, so those no confusion/accusations later.

BTW I am expecting a good result at Millwall, but not "because of" Gomes


It's probably not fair to start judging him until after he's been in charge of at least five games. And probably worth ignoring the quick paced run over Xmas to start with. But once (if) he's been here for 10-12 it's probably fair to start including them again, and looking at the 5/6 game progression.

If he lasts the season, I'd then ignore what went this year and focus on what he can do from the start of next season.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by tmesis » 23 Dec 2018 19:11

Denver Royal
Sutekh
Snowball Usually I WOULD say that but the Chinese owners
have never talked up their football knowledge,
the CEO is not "big on" football knowledge, and
we don't currently have anyone obvious with the
necessary knowledge who is CLEARLY in post

I reckon there may have been some conversation between Reading’s Chinese owners and Wolves’ Chinese owners with them being impressed with the model there and wanting to follow it so have then reached out to an agent with a good few Portuguese contacts.

If in fact we 'did a Wolves', would everyone be happy?

We'd all be absolutely delighted if we achieved what Wolves have done under their Portuguese boss.

It's just that with him coming into an unfamiliar football culture, with a squad of players who struggle to adapt to any tactical system, and with a track record that doesn't inspire any confidence, a lot seems stacked against him. As a result, many people are perhaps not blessed with your optimism.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Dec 2018 19:13

Denver Royal
Sutekh
Snowball Usually I WOULD say that but the Chinese owners
have never talked up their football knowledge,
the CEO is not "big on" football knowledge, and
we don't currently have anyone obvious with the
necessary knowledge who is CLEARLY in post

I reckon there may have been some conversation between Reading’s Chinese owners and Wolves’ Chinese owners with them being impressed with the model there and wanting to follow it so have then reached out to an agent with a good few Portuguese contacts.

If in fact we 'did a Wolves', would everyone be happy?


Have a guess.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowball » 23 Dec 2018 20:11

Snowflake Royal
Snowball Just to go on record...

When we start looking at Gomes' RFC statistics what is fair?

Include every game? (He can hardly have much effect by Wednesday or Saturday)

Ignore the first two games?


I am going to write off the Millwall-QPR games in terms of his stats.

I'm saying so NOW, so those no confusion/accusations later.

BTW I am expecting a good result at Millwall, but not "because of" Gomes


It's probably not fair to start judging him until after he's been in charge of at least five games. And probably worth ignoring the quick paced run over Xmas to start with. But once (if) he's been here for 10-12 it's probably fair to start including them again, and looking at the 5/6 game progression.

If he lasts the season, I'd then ignore what went this year and focus on what he can do from the start of next season.



Agreed, but as I like stats and, IF I ignore two games (and they happen to be defeats)
then I'm accuse of fiddling the stats.

I agree that his influence SHOULD take a MINIMUM of six games.

The two game thing is a bit of a compromise.

Put it another way. If we win at Millwall it's extremely unlikely to be
because a couple of quick chats transformed the team. If we lose it
won't be because he has no idea.

Thus I choose to ignore that game and QPR "UP FRONT"


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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Denver Royal » 23 Dec 2018 20:19

tmesis We'd all be absolutely delighted if we achieved what Wolves have done under their Portuguese boss. Many people are perhaps not blessed with your optimism.

Er, I’m not optimistic about it happening, and never said I was. Also, not sure I’m as convinced as you are that ‘We’d all be absolutely delighted’, even if it did.

I had never heard of this bloke. I suggested Bruce at the time, which was met with derision, so there you go. Anyway...

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Dec 2018 00:19

Snowball
Snowflake Royal
Snowball Just to go on record...

When we start looking at Gomes' RFC statistics what is fair?

Include every game? (He can hardly have much effect by Wednesday or Saturday)

Ignore the first two games?


I am going to write off the Millwall-QPR games in terms of his stats.

I'm saying so NOW, so those no confusion/accusations later.

BTW I am expecting a good result at Millwall, but not "because of" Gomes


It's probably not fair to start judging him until after he's been in charge of at least five games. And probably worth ignoring the quick paced run over Xmas to start with. But once (if) he's been here for 10-12 it's probably fair to start including them again, and looking at the 5/6 game progression.

If he lasts the season, I'd then ignore what went this year and focus on what he can do from the start of next season.



Agreed, but as I like stats and, IF I ignore two games (and they happen to be defeats)
then I'm accuse of fiddling the stats.

I agree that his influence SHOULD take a MINIMUM of six games.

The two game thing is a bit of a compromise.

Put it another way. If we win at Millwall it's extremely unlikely to be
because a couple of quick chats transformed the team. If we lose it
won't be because he has no idea.

Thus I choose to ignore that game and QPR "UP FRONT"

No complaints from me if you use standard measures or set your stall out upfront.

I might do it differently, but I also quite liked your recent work on Clement's performance.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Dr_Hfuhruhurr » 24 Dec 2018 07:06

if you want to assess a manager, I would say its fair that he is given time to work out what the first 11 in. Which given our bloated squad of players who are equally ineffective as each other could take some time. Clement only really started to understand who is first 11 was just before we sacked him. Saying that, knowing who your first 11 is is itself a managerial skill, so you cant give him too long for that. We also have the January Transfer window coming up. What will the manager do? Strengthen the positions we need strengthening in. Or hire 5 nobodies as a favour to their agents? You could argue that you could turn a blind eye to Gomes' statistics until after the Transfer window shuts. But Im quite old fashioned. He should be judged from Day One. But this is football, and championship football, so its not just his W/L ratio. Its who he plays, the way he plays, what happens when we go behind, what happens when we go ahead, how we play in the North on a Tuesday night, what he says to the media when we win, what he says to the media when we lose and a thousand other variables. My feeling is that if we're set up like a discount Wolves, we'll end up looking discount.

Doesnt beating Millwall fall into Snowball's analyses of statistics boiling down to 'Beating the Teams below up, and losing to the teams above us'? We are also soon going to find out if Bolton do the double over us this year. If they do, thats as pure relegation form as you can get

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by 3points » 24 Dec 2018 08:39

We should expect early wins. It’s called the new manager bounce. We didn’t get it under McD2, nor Clement when he came in. If there’s is no bounce then there’s little point in changing managers mid way through a season. How long it lasts is key though and it hasn’t really worked for Ipswich.

Reading most people’s comments on here and given the torrid Christmas period of fixtures not many seem to expect the bounce because JG won’t have time to work with the squad. So we really need to be seeing it after the FA Cup 3rd round fixture. Use that as a training exercise and write it off, and focus on the Forest game.


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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Dec 2018 11:23

We did win Clement's first game... The bounce was just very small and we didn't need it to be anything else.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Ascotexgunner » 24 Dec 2018 12:32

Dr_Hfuhruhurr if you want to assess a manager, I would say its fair that he is given time to work out what the first 11 in. Which given our bloated squad of players who are equally ineffective as each other could take some time. Clement only really started to understand who is first 11 was just before we sacked him. Saying that, knowing who your first 11 is is itself a managerial skill, so you cant give him too long for that. We also have the January Transfer window coming up. What will the manager do? Strengthen the positions we need strengthening in. Or hire 5 nobodies as a favour to their agents? You could argue that you could turn a blind eye to Gomes' statistics until after the Transfer window shuts. But Im quite old fashioned. He should be judged from Day One. But this is football, and championship football, so its not just his W/L ratio. Its who he plays, the way he plays, what happens when we go behind, what happens when we go ahead, how we play in the North on a Tuesday night, what he says to the media when we win, what he says to the media when we lose and a thousand other variables. My feeling is that if we're set up like a discount Wolves, we'll end up looking discount.

Doesnt beating Millwall fall into Snowball's analyses of statistics boiling down to 'Beating the Teams below up, and losing to the teams above us'? We are also soon going to find out if Bolton do the double over us this year. If they do, thats as pure relegation form as you can get


If he picks Aluko first game we will know exactly which direction his career at Reading and our survival in the Championship will be going.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Hampshire Royal » 24 Dec 2018 12:38

I've heard that Aluko was very good when he was at Fulham. I too would be disappointed f he picked Aluko, bearing in mind that he has been dog-shit while at Reading.

But

If he allows the team to play to Aluko's strengths he might have a better team.

You never know....

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Victor Meldrew » 24 Dec 2018 13:12

Having mentioned on another managerial thread that our year seems to have run in tandem with that of Southampton I hope it continues.
They appointed a new manager last Spring who kept them up-some money was spent in the Summer but come December they were around the relegation spots so they sacked the British manager and brought in a foreigner-sounds familiar?
Their first game under the new manager was lost 1-0 but since then they have beaten Arsenal and Huddersfield to gain 6 points (with not many team changes) and all around St Marys the atmosphere has changed.

To mirror that I would take us losing Gomes' first game at Millwall followed by 2 wins against QPR and Swansea.
Everything crossed that he does make an immediate impact-we surely need him to.


Merry Christmas HR-good to see you back.

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Zip » 24 Dec 2018 13:19

Victor Meldrew Having mentioned on another managerial thread that our year seems to have run in tandem with that of Southampton I hope it continues.
They appointed a new manager last Spring who kept them up-some money was spent in the Summer but come December they were around the relegation spots so they sacked the British manager and brought in a foreigner-sounds familiar?
Their first game under the new manager was lost 1-0 but since then they have beaten Arsenal and Huddersfield to gain 6 points (with not many team changes) and all around St Marys the atmosphere has changed.

To mirror that I would take us losing Gomes' first game at Millwall followed by 2 wins against QPR and Swansea.
Everything crossed that he does make an immediate impact-we surely need him to.


Merry Christmas HR-good to see you back.



What about Merry Christmas to the rest of us you tight oxf*rd

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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Victor Meldrew » 24 Dec 2018 13:22

Zip
Victor Meldrew Having mentioned on another managerial thread that our year seems to have run in tandem with that of Southampton I hope it continues.
They appointed a new manager last Spring who kept them up-some money was spent in the Summer but come December they were around the relegation spots so they sacked the British manager and brought in a foreigner-sounds familiar?
Their first game under the new manager was lost 1-0 but since then they have beaten Arsenal and Huddersfield to gain 6 points (with not many team changes) and all around St Marys the atmosphere has changed.

To mirror that I would take us losing Gomes' first game at Millwall followed by 2 wins against QPR and Swansea.
Everything crossed that he does make an immediate impact-we surely need him to.


Merry Christmas HR-good to see you back.



What about Merry Christmas to the rest of us you tight oxf*rd


All right then the same to you and fellow HNA brothers and sisters-it's just that HR hasn't been on here for ages.

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Zip
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Re: José Gomes whelmguage

by Zip » 24 Dec 2018 13:28

Victor Meldrew
Zip
Victor Meldrew Having mentioned on another managerial thread that our year seems to have run in tandem with that of Southampton I hope it continues.
They appointed a new manager last Spring who kept them up-some money was spent in the Summer but come December they were around the relegation spots so they sacked the British manager and brought in a foreigner-sounds familiar?
Their first game under the new manager was lost 1-0 but since then they have beaten Arsenal and Huddersfield to gain 6 points (with not many team changes) and all around St Marys the atmosphere has changed.

To mirror that I would take us losing Gomes' first game at Millwall followed by 2 wins against QPR and Swansea.
Everything crossed that he does make an immediate impact-we surely need him to.


Merry Christmas HR-good to see you back.



What about Merry Christmas to the rest of us you tight oxf*rd


All right then the same to you and fellow HNA brothers and sisters-it's just that HR hasn't been on here for ages.


Merry Christmas to you as well

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