Economics

[Maneki Neko]

If the debt has been transferred to them, isn't it now their debt and not ours? And they are loaded...

But yes, for sustainability reasons, this is a very sensible transfer window. Even better if we can bin Mannone, McNulty et al

Well it is the football club debt, which is owed to the Yonges, but as they own the club they owe the money to themselves.
We’d be in trouble if we owed money to the taxman, or the banks because we’d have to pay it back.
I think most clubs are effectively ‘in debt’ to their owners in the same way lots of businesses are technically in debt.
The only time it would be an issue would be if the Yonge’s just gave up, stopped paying the players, stopped paying the tax man but they show no signs of that .
I think it makes absolute sense to run the club as efficiently as possible, no point paying thousands of pounds each week in wages and associated costs for players that aren’t needed, but talk of bankruptcy is unfounded. There’s not even been talk of administration let alone going bust....

Yep. That's what I'm saying.
I believe there would be a much bigger chance of the yonges walking away if we went down and maintained a wage bill of tens of millions of pounds.
You dont get rich by burning your money. And most owners want their money back at some point. Plan A is that you get it through success and/or selling for more than you spent.That goes out the window if we go down. Especially if we maintain an unsustainable wage bill.
Their strategy here Is two fold. Give us the best chance of staying up whilst also preparing the club for the possibility of going down.

[Hound]

Their strategy here Is two fold. Give us the best chance of staying up whilst also preparing the club for the possibility of going down.

Yep, and thats why it has been a good transfer window

We look a lot leaner now. If we go down, we obviously send back the loans, release McShane, O Shea, Jaakola possibly Harriott. Should be able to sell Swift, Barrow and Moore easily enough, and pull in between 7-10m for them. Loader and Novakovich as well if desperate.

Doesn't leave us that much else left on long expensive contracts. Even Aluko would be down to 2 years, McCleary 1. There rest you'd probably want to keep anyway pretty much. Even McNulty and Meyler may be ok in Div1

[Nameless]

If the debt has been transferred to them, isn't it now their debt and not ours? And they are loaded...

But yes, for sustainability reasons, this is a very sensible transfer window. Even better if we can bin Mannone, McNulty et al

Well it is the football club debt, which is owed to the Yonges, but as they own the club they owe the money to themselves.
We’d be in trouble if we owed money to the taxman, or the banks because we’d have to pay it back.
I think most clubs are effectively ‘in debt’ to their owners in the same way lots of businesses are technically in debt.
The only time it would be an issue would be if the Yonge’s just gave up, stopped paying the players, stopped paying the tax man but they show no signs of that .
I think it makes absolute sense to run the club as efficiently as possible, no point paying thousands of pounds each week in wages and associated costs for players that aren’t needed, but talk of bankruptcy is unfounded. There’s not even been talk of administration let alone going bust....

Yep. That's what I'm saying.
I believe there would be a much bigger chance of the yonges walking away if we went down and maintained a wage bill of tens of millions of pounds.
You dont get rich by burning your money. And most owners want their money back at some point. Plan A is that you get it through success and/or selling for more than you spent.That goes out the window if we go down. Especially if we maintain an unsustainable wage bill.
Their strategy here Is two fold. Give us the best chance of staying up whilst also preparing the club for the possibility of going down.

You think there is ANY chance of them walking away ?
The money they have spent wil barely register on their balance sheet and undoubtably will actually be off setting tax bills.
Still not seeing where your claim that we are weeks away from bankruptcy comes from. That is such a different thing to ensuring the club is run more efficiently...

[Denver Royal]

Hopefully this thread lays to rest the notion held under the previous manager that going down might be a good thing. Although strangely, I haven't heard it mentioned once yet with the current manager.

[Maneki Neko]

Their strategy here Is two fold. Give us the best chance of staying up whilst also preparing the club for the possibility of going down.

Yep, and thats why it has been a good transfer window

We look a lot leaner now. If we go down, we obviously send back the loans, release McShane, O Shea, Jaakola possibly Harriott. Should be able to sell Swift, Barrow and Moore easily enough, and pull in between 7-10m for them. Loader and Novakovich as well if desperate.

Doesn't leave us that much else left on long expensive contracts. Even Aluko would be down to 2 years, McCleary 1. There rest you'd probably want to keep anyway pretty much. Even McNulty and Meyler may be ok in Div1

im very impressed with the whole approach.
no oxf*rd about. assess the problems, solve them, ASAP.
Im much less worried about relegation now, in fact id quite enjoy seeing him build a team based on our U23s to try and win the 3rd tier
(not that I want that or think it would be a good thing )

[Maneki Neko]

Well it is the football club debt, which is owed to the Yonges, but as they own the club they owe the money to themselves.
We’d be in trouble if we owed money to the taxman, or the banks because we’d have to pay it back.
I think most clubs are effectively ‘in debt’ to their owners in the same way lots of businesses are technically in debt.
The only time it would be an issue would be if the Yonge’s just gave up, stopped paying the players, stopped paying the tax man but they show no signs of that .
I think it makes absolute sense to run the club as efficiently as possible, no point paying thousands of pounds each week in wages and associated costs for players that aren’t needed, but talk of bankruptcy is unfounded. There’s not even been talk of administration let alone going bust....

Yep. That's what I'm saying.
I believe there would be a much bigger chance of the yonges walking away if we went down and maintained a wage bill of tens of millions of pounds.
You dont get rich by burning your money. And most owners want their money back at some point. Plan A is that you get it through success and/or selling for more than you spent.That goes out the window if we go down. Especially if we maintain an unsustainable wage bill.
Their strategy here Is two fold. Give us the best chance of staying up whilst also preparing the club for the possibility of going down.

You think there is ANY chance of them walking away ?
The money they have spent wil barely register on their balance sheet and undoubtably will actually be off setting tax bills.
Still not seeing where your claim that we are weeks away from bankruptcy comes from. That is such a different thing to ensuring the club is run more efficiently...

calm down to a panic m8
at no point did I say we were weeks away from bankruptcy.
I said IF we went down without undergoing this massive wage restructuring now, it becomes a much bigger prospect.

yes losing tens of millions probably hardly registers, but losing more money, for a prolonged period of time will.
you don't make billions by not being bothered about losing millions.
this isn't a passion project. they aren't motivated by a feel for the local community. this is business. and the instant we become too much of a drain on their resources, and the prospect of returning to success drifts too far into the distance, they'll be off.

[Nameless]

Yep. That's what I'm saying.
I believe there would be a much bigger chance of the yonges walking away if we went down and maintained a wage bill of tens of millions of pounds.
You dont get rich by burning your money. And most owners want their money back at some point. Plan A is that you get it through success and/or selling for more than you spent.That goes out the window if we go down. Especially if we maintain an unsustainable wage bill.
Their strategy here Is two fold. Give us the best chance of staying up whilst also preparing the club for the possibility of going down.

You think there is ANY chance of them walking away ?
The money they have spent wil barely register on their balance sheet and undoubtably will actually be off setting tax bills.
Still not seeing where your claim that we are weeks away from bankruptcy comes from. That is such a different thing to ensuring the club is run more efficiently...

calm down to a panic m8
at no point did I say we were weeks away from bankruptcy.
I said IF we went down without undergoing this massive wage restructuring now, it becomes a much bigger prospect.

yes losing tens of millions probably hardly registers, but losing more money, for a prolonged period of time will.
you don't make billions by not being bothered about losing millions.
this isn't a passion project. they aren't motivated by a feel for the local community. this is business. and the instant we become too much of a drain on their resources, and the prospect of returning to success drifts too far into the distance, they'll be off.

We’ll have to disagree !
They clearly aren’t involved on a pure business basis. You don’t make billions by thinking a second tier football club is a money making exercise. The fact that they took the club on without the potential money making REP project indicates that at the very least this is a long term project. Dai isn’t newto football, he kind of understands the economics.

[Lower West]

Hopefully this thread lays to rest the notion held under the previous manager that going down might be a good thing. Although strangely, I haven't heard it mentioned once yet with the current manager.

Perhaps it's the result of utter bemusement as to what's going on. Little point in putting for sale signs above players heads that would be perfectly adequate in league one. I believed that Clement was doing an adequate enough job to keep us up. Whereas Gomes is increasingly looking like a Stam MK2, With the club simply drifting into the mire. Over ambitious to expect a bunch of loanees who aren't even match fit. To bond with the remaining squad members, gel as a unit and transform Reading into a match winning team. With a relatively small number of games to go.

[Maneki Neko]

You think there is ANY chance of them walking away ?
The money they have spent wil barely register on their balance sheet and undoubtably will actually be off setting tax bills.
Still not seeing where your claim that we are weeks away from bankruptcy comes from. That is such a different thing to ensuring the club is run more efficiently...

calm down to a panic m8
at no point did I say we were weeks away from bankruptcy.
I said IF we went down without undergoing this massive wage restructuring now, it becomes a much bigger prospect.

yes losing tens of millions probably hardly registers, but losing more money, for a prolonged period of time will.
you don't make billions by not being bothered about losing millions.
this isn't a passion project. they aren't motivated by a feel for the local community. this is business. and the instant we become too much of a drain on their resources, and the prospect of returning to success drifts too far into the distance, they'll be off.

We’ll have to disagree !
They clearly aren’t involved on a pure business basis. You don’t make billions by thinking a second tier football club is a money making exercise. The fact that they took the club on without the potential money making REP project indicates that at the very least this is a long term project. Dai isn’t newto football, he kind of understands the economics.

yes....which is why he has had to restructure our wage structure and squad size....

[Hound]

Hopefully this thread lays to rest the notion held under the previous manager that going down might be a good thing. Although strangely, I haven't heard it mentioned once yet with the current manager.

Perhaps it's the result of utter bemusement as to what's going on. Little point in putting for sale signs above players heads that would be perfectly adequate in league one. I believed that Clement was doing an adequate enough job to keep us up. Whereas Gomes is increasingly looking like a Stam MK2, With the club simply drifting into the mire.

How is that the case? Stam was sleep walking into relegation, sulking that the owners wouldn't let him blow even more cash

I still think it was a mistake to sack Clement when we did. However, Gomes has come in and completely restructured the team in the space of a month. Not saying it will work, or Gomes has the results to back him up yet, but I can't see any similarity to Stam whatsoever

[Denver Royal]

Hopefully this thread lays to rest the notion held under the previous manager that going down might be a good thing. Although strangely, I haven't heard it mentioned once yet with the current manager.

Perhaps it's the result of utter bemusement as to what's going on. Little point in putting for sale signs above players heads that would be perfectly adequate in league one. I believed that Clement was doing an adequate enough job to keep us up. Whereas Gomes is increasingly looking like a Stam MK2, With the club simply drifting into the mire.

I was speaking more to the financial ramifications of going down (under any manager), which Brendy outlines.

(Yep, I know you think Clement would have kept us up. I heard you the first time you said it, and you've told me many times since. It's been done to death, but at the end of the day your assertion cannot be proven, the club (i.e. nobody in here) fired him, and he isn't coming back...and oh, he's out of work again, still. Anyway...).

[Snowflake Royal]

Hopefully this thread lays to rest the notion held under the previous manager that going down might be a good thing. Although strangely, I haven't heard it mentioned once yet with the current manager.

It could be, but the chance is lower than it was a couple of years ago. Then again our current transfer activity has increased the chance of it being good from where we were on 1st January.

There are many examples of clubs going down and coming back stronger, just as there are many examples of them wallowing or dropping further.

It's really not a challenging concept. The financials of it are bad, there is no underplaying that. But then the financials of continuing to overspend fighting relegation are also bad. And whilst it is certainly bad, it's not as immediately catastrophic as Brandy is prone to suggest. And this is me saying it, a big proponent of being careful with finances and keeping an eye on the accounts, not one of the spend spend spend no consequences brigade.

Something has to change for us to perform better. Given where we are and how we've been for years, relegation is a very real prospect so you might as well look on the bright side.

[Maneki Neko]

You think there is ANY chance of them walking away ?
The money they have spent wil barely register on their balance sheet and undoubtably will actually be off setting tax bills.
Still not seeing where your claim that we are weeks away from bankruptcy comes from. That is such a different thing to ensuring the club is run more efficiently...

calm down to a panic m8
at no point did I say we were weeks away from bankruptcy.
I said IF we went down without undergoing this massive wage restructuring now, it becomes a much bigger prospect.

yes losing tens of millions probably hardly registers, but losing more money, for a prolonged period of time will.
you don't make billions by not being bothered about losing millions.
this isn't a passion project. they aren't motivated by a feel for the local community. this is business. and the instant we become too much of a drain on their resources, and the prospect of returning to success drifts too far into the distance, they'll be off.

We’ll have to disagree !
They clearly aren’t involved on a pure business basis. You don’t make billions by thinking a second tier football club is a money making exercise. The fact that they took the club on without the potential money making REP project indicates that at the very least this is a long term project. Dai isn’t newto football, he kind of understands the economics.

that didn't seem to stop him allowing Gourlay to run the club like some sort of clown academy and losing him a fortune

[Nameless]

calm down to a panic m8
at no point did I say we were weeks away from bankruptcy.
I said IF we went down without undergoing this massive wage restructuring now, it becomes a much bigger prospect.

yes losing tens of millions probably hardly registers, but losing more money, for a prolonged period of time will.
you don't make billions by not being bothered about losing millions.
this isn't a passion project. they aren't motivated by a feel for the local community. this is business. and the instant we become too much of a drain on their resources, and the prospect of returning to success drifts too far into the distance, they'll be off.

We’ll have to disagree !
They clearly aren’t involved on a pure business basis. You don’t make billions by thinking a second tier football club is a money making exercise. The fact that they took the club on without the potential money making REP project indicates that at the very least this is a long term project. Dai isn’t newto football, he kind of understands the economics.

that didn't seem to stop him allowing Gourlay to run the club like some sort of clown academy and losing him a fortune

Or spotting what was happening and putting an end to it !
Bear in mind Strap is convinced this is all a tax dodge so maybe they needed a year of losses to,offset something else !

[Westwood52]

Lets not shy away from the fact that ending up in Div One would be a disaster. At present I put it at 50/50; there just does not seem to be an initiative amongst the current squad to battle it out.We all know who the four teams are battling to avoid the last relegation slot. Our team sheet is the strongest of this four; but we are trying to play ourselves out of trouble , while the other three with weaker team sheets are relying little more than blood , sweat and effort.
If we do go down (and I really hope we don't )- the six or seven players on a basic of £1 mill a year plus, salaries have to go(one way or another ).
So what will next years 1st team look like ?

Walker
Yiadom (?) Blackett McIntire Richards
Rino Kelly Swift (?)
Harriot Meite Loader(McNulty)

Yiadom & Swift, maybe too expensive; but McNulty might be red hot at Div One level. Plus a number of cheaper options will be brought in.
Captain ? Perhaps Rino.

We may as well keep Gomez on rather than keep chopping and changing Manager.

[Lower West]

Promote East and have others coming through the ranks. Not a bad starting 11 either. Replace Kelly with an older experienced head to provide leadership. Could be far far worse.

[Zip]

I literally don't really care about anyone playing at the minute.
We need a complete rebuild and a solid first XI with7 or 8 quality subs.

Except Rinomhota.

And Bod. I like Bod.

If we stay up Bod has to go. Far too brittle and hardly prolific.

[Hound]

I think Bod has to go whatever sadly. Like him but he’s constantly broken, and we have Novakovich back next year who must be as good an option

[windermereROYAL]

I think Bod has to go whatever sadly. Like him but he’s constantly broken, and we have Novakovich back next year who must be as good an option

Staggered why we don`t bring him back now with only two fit forwards.

[SCIAG]

I think Bod has to go whatever sadly. Like him but he’s constantly broken, and we have Novakovich back next year who must be as good an option

Staggered why we don`t bring him back now with only two fit forwards.

Long-term international loans can only be terminated by the parent club during transfer windows. The transfer window is currently shut.