Gomes after 10 League Games

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Lower West
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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Lower West » 03 Mar 2019 14:02

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Ok - even if you factor in Millwall and QPR our form is still mid table under Gomes.


Only form table that matters is the final one after the 46 games have been played.

Until there's a regular starting 11. Consistency of form is going to remain an issue.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Denver Royal » 03 Mar 2019 15:53

Lower West If we are relegated Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.
Well, many Clement fans reckon he'd have kept us up, so we wouldn't be in League 1 anyway. Clement's 'coaching credentials' amounted to little here, and wasn't really known for bringing youth thru (Rino happened only when forced on him thru a lot injuries).
Also, in League 1 I think you'd find the onus of the manager - any manager - would be to get us back up asap, a la Blackburn, Wigan, Rovrum. As such, I wouldn't necessarily see a vast influx of U23's. In fact, pursuant to promotion, we may even sign some vets.
Lower West The question I would pose is if we are relegated was the switch in management worthwhile?
You can pose whatever question you want, even the same one every week. :wink: And I could give you my answer, but it would make no difference because the decision was already made by the club :wink: For sake of discussion, let's suppose we all thought it was the wrong move. Ok, so what? The club has made wrong decisions before, and they will again. We move on after all of them.
sandman Millwall game was lost within the first 20 minutes due to his tactics leaving us a man down.
His tactics got one of our players sent off after 8 minutes? (Thought in here a manager - any manager - wasn't accountable in his first 2 games anyway?)
Anyway, his 1st game aside, maybe he's learning because we haven't had a player sent off since.
(In Clement's first 6 games, we had 4 players sent off. Was that due to his tactics? I don't recall you criticizing him for same?)
Are you thrilled with the win yesterday btw? :wink:
Snowball When he can address the weaknesses (in particular central midfield) I could easily see him managing us to a top six place.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We're not out of the woods yet and we're still in deep shite.
I'll have a better idea on next season in Aug once I've seen who we signed, etc.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 03 Mar 2019 23:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Mar 2019 16:33

Denver Royal Thought in here a manager - any manager - wasn't accountable in his first 2 games anyway?)
.

Now. Now. Play nice. I dont think even snowball has said anything that daft.

The manager is always accountable. Accountability and responsibility are not entirely the same thing though.

You give a new manager leeway, especially if they have games that crop up very early on before they can reasonably have done much in training. You dont place great value on early results that arent positive.

Once the manager is through the settling in period and theres a goodly number of games to judge on though, its all back in the mix.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Denver Royal » 03 Mar 2019 19:06

Snowball
Lower West Only 3 of those games were against teams in the top 10. We still have the other 7 left to play.

Millwall and QPR should not be excluded. Managers pick the team on the day. Set out the tactics.

Under Gomes against the teams around us, P4 W1 D2 L1 . Those are the stats that will determine the outcome of the season. As easy points are going to be few and far between.


That (bold) is a bit silly. On the one hand we are saying managers need a couple od seasons
and a few transfer windows, yet you're saying a manager can come in, and on virtually zero
training/coaching CHANGE a team?

Some here think we shouldn't look until a manager has 6-8 games (very reasonable)
and judge the games AFTER the 6-8. I agree, but settled for the absolute minimum of two,
and set out my stall, saying so before a Gomes team had kicked a ball.

Had we won at Millwall and QPR I'm pretty sure many would have said,
"That's a Clement team, and the wins are down to him."

Snowball, it's true you've been consistent from the outset re. omitting the first two games, so fair play. However...

Lower West, I agree, I've maintained the first two games should be included, for any manager, mainly for consistency. The less variables introduced, the better.

Over the years, I've heard all kinds of metrics and logic put forth in here re. evaluations, comparisons of managers, suitable time frames, etc: 2 games, 4 games, 5, 6, 10 ,12 games, one season, two seasons, two transfer windows, 5 seasons (in League 1), an infinity amount of seasons in whatever lower divisions he happens to take us down in to, etc.

But yes, like you, I agree it all starts from game 1.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by maffff » 03 Mar 2019 20:16

Lower West Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.


If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

Gomes has coached at some phenomenal youth teams in Portugal. Go read up on his career Lower West


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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Stranded » 03 Mar 2019 21:01

So 12 games in, league-wise, we are 14th in the form table. Over shorter spreads we are also comfortably mid-table.

Much improved from the low base he took over.

https://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.a ... e=england2

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by URZZZZ » 03 Mar 2019 21:04

maffff
Lower West Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.


If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

Gomes has coached at some phenomenal youth teams in Portugal. Go read up on his career Lower West


Yeah, it's not like he used Richards, Rinomhota or Loader :roll:

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by sandman » 03 Mar 2019 21:05

maffff
Lower West Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.


If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

Gomes has coached at some phenomenal youth teams in Portugal. Go read up on his career Lower West



Oh dear.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by maffff » 03 Mar 2019 21:15

URZZZZ
maffff
Lower West Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.


If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

Gomes has coached at some phenomenal youth teams in Portugal. Go read up on his career Lower West


Yeah, it's not like he used Richards, Rinomhota or Loader :roll:


Those were all through necessity. Admittedly not many managers do play youth because they can.


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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by URZZZZ » 03 Mar 2019 21:17

maffff
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maffff
If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

Gomes has coached at some phenomenal youth teams in Portugal. Go read up on his career Lower West


Yeah, it's not like he used Richards, Rinomhota or Loader :roll:


Those were all through necessity. Admittedly not many managers do play youth because they can.


Necessity? We had McNulty, Baldock, Bodvarsson and Meite to play as striker, so Loader certainly wasn't a necessity. The fact Rino was used above Pelle (who I thought was really good) and Meyler spoke volumes too

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Lower West » 03 Mar 2019 22:46

maffff Gomes has coached at some phenomenal youth teams in Portugal. Go read up on his career Lower West


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Mar 2019 07:43

maffff
Lower West Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.


If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

What a load of clap trap.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Old Man Andrews » 04 Mar 2019 08:35

Gomes has done a perfectly good job so far, he has achieved his goal of getting us out of the relegation zone and has made us a more attractive side. Sure there are things he has done wrong (the O'Shea sub against Rotherham) but the bloke is still learning about the team, the players and the league in general. I wish we had him in at the start of last summer so he could build the squad he wanted and got to know the players before we'd kicked a ball. He has clearly motivated the players better than Clement ever could, the majority of them are putting it all on the line for this club and we should be grateful to Gomes for that.

Hopefully he will stay with us and build a new squad this summer, get rid of some of the chancers we have like Liam Kelly and forget this season ever happened.


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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Hound » 04 Mar 2019 09:06

strangely I've quite enjoyed this year. The games have generally been close and entertaining.

Last year was an absolute misery - we were terrible, the games were desperately dull and massive hangover following the PO season

Gomes job is not about 8,10,12 or 20 games. He has been tasked with keeping us up, and if he does that then he has done a fine job. So far he is just about on target to do that, but there is a lot of hard work to be done still. Still signs are relatively positive, and will be a lot more so if we win against Wigan

Extra points for shedding a load of deadwood and getting the crowd onside in the process

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Maneki Neko » 04 Mar 2019 09:48

Snowball I hope my posing the OP isn’t seen to imply I’m advocating CHANGE

I am more than happy with Gomes

Was just pointing out that his stats ARE improving and are better than Clement

Even with this exact squad I would imagine he would comfortably get us 1.5 ppg in a new season.

When he can address the weaknesses (in particular central midfield) I could easily see him managing us to a top six place.

Yes I’m aware we have loanees etc, but if he/his team found good ones once, he/they can do the same again.

No question I’d take Martinez, Miazga, Oliveira on permanents. I like Elijara and Baker too!

We should remember this turn-round includes a lot of dead wood going (and more in the summer, no doubt)

What Gomes and the club has done is very good indeed.


I think to have managed a real upturn in form at the same time as clearing a load of high wage players out and bringing 5 new players into the 1st team is quite impressive.
we have to keep it up, and injuries to key players can still have a real impact on our season, but I'm happy with gomes, and would be happy with him in charge whatever division we end up in next season.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by maffff » 04 Mar 2019 11:58

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maffff
Lower West Clement would have been the ideal candidate to bring the U23's through given his coaching credentials.


If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

What a load of clap trap.


That's cute, given a bunch of the u23s and even more of the u18s were actively looking to leave under the last command I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Once has since signed a contract extension FWIW.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Mar 2019 17:39

maffff
Snowflake Royal
maffff
If Clement remained there wouldn't have been a u23s left to bring through. Let alone use, as we all know that's not his philosophy.

What a load of clap trap.


That's cute, given a bunch of the u23s and even more of the u18s were actively looking to leave under the last command I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Once has since signed a contract extension FWIW.

Yeah we all know how much you want everyone to think youre totally in the know and how much youvloved stam and hated Clement.

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Snowball » 09 Mar 2019 23:44

Played Points PPG "Season Equiv"

PL -- Pts -- PPG - S-Eq

13 -- 17 -- 1.31 -- 60 ----- All League Games

11 -- 16 -- 1.45 -- 67 ----- Without first two games

10 -- 16 -- 1.60 -- 74 ----- Last 10 Games

09 -- 13 -- 1.44 -- 66 ----- Last 9 Games

08 -- 13 -- 1.63 -- 75 ----- Last 8 Games

06 -- 11 -- 1.83 -- 84 ----- Last 6 Games


1.63 ppg over the last 8 with just the one defeat to a very good side
(1.83 over the last 6 games) is quite remarkable considering how we looked when Gomes came in.

It's going to get a lot harder from here on in but Bolton are 7 points back,
Rotherham 3, Millwall (in free-fall) 2 and two of these have to catch us
as well as Wigan gain a point on us, all with just 10 games left.

We were second bottom when Gomes took over? That is a brilliant turn-round!

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by Snowball » 10 Mar 2019 00:05

In just 13 games, the team under Gomes has won as many games as Clement +
managed in 23..

3 of Gomes' defeats were in his first 5 games
and his win percentage is 30.8% compared to 17.4%



36 - Won 08 - Drawn 12 - Lost 16 - 36 Points - Season

23 - Won 04 - Drawn 07 - Lost 12 - 19 Points - Clement +3

13 - Won 04 - Drawn 05 - Lost 04 - 17 Points - GOMES




17.4% Wins Clement + 3

30.8% Wins Gomes

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Re: Gomes after 10 League Games

by From Despair To Where? » 10 Mar 2019 00:16

Lets not be counting our chickens just yet but for me, the biggest improvement is that I see players really wanting to play for the manager and the manager investing emotionally in the club and giving everyone a lift.

It's just very good man management and something we've not really seen since Brian's first spell in charge.

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