England - the future....

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double d
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Re: England - the future....

by double d » 15 Mar 2018 13:28

I think Kane will be the one to carry us! If he is on form then we will get to the Semi's.

We also need to sort out goalkeeping situation out because at the moment it seems that none of our goalkeepers actually WANT to go to the wc.

Hart - Been abysmal for 3 years.
Forster - Terrible season and rightly dropped
Heaton - Decent but Injured still and not fit
Butland - Decent in a terrible side but dear god against Messi etc would get murdered
Pickford - Good but very young an inexperienced and unsure if he would be able to handle that
Pope - Outside chance but been my favourite British keeper to watch this season. I think he HAS to go to WC. Looks tall, imposing and doing very well in a solid Burnley team.
Angus Gunn. No.

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Old Man Andrews
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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 15 Mar 2018 13:47

double d wrote:Pope - Outside chance but been my favourite British keeper to watch this season. I think he HAS to go to WC. Looks tall, imposing and doing very well in a solid Burnley team..


Lets get Richard Osman in then if thats what is important.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 15 Mar 2018 13:50

double d wrote:I think Kane will be the one to carry us! If he is on form then we will get to the Semi's.

We also need to sort out goalkeeping situation out because at the moment it seems that none of our goalkeepers actually WANT to go to the wc.

Hart - Been abysmal for 3 years.
Forster - Terrible season and rightly dropped
Heaton - Decent but Injured still and not fit
Butland - Decent in a terrible side but dear god against Messi etc would get murdered
Pickford - Good but very young an inexperienced and unsure if he would be able to handle that
Pope - Outside chance but been my favourite British keeper to watch this season. I think he HAS to go to WC. Looks tall, imposing and doing very well in a solid Burnley team.
Angus Gunn. No.


Butland for me, with Pickford on his tail. Hart has had enough chances, and has been awful for Torino and West Ham. Forster is bizarre - should have been Hart's replacement, and for a decade, but has lost all form. Can't say I've noticed Heaton enough to comment. Pickford the better shot-stopper but Butland the better all-round keeper. Flip a coin really.

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Old Man Andrews
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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 15 Mar 2018 13:59

Sanguine wrote:
double d wrote:I think Kane will be the one to carry us! If he is on form then we will get to the Semi's.

We also need to sort out goalkeeping situation out because at the moment it seems that none of our goalkeepers actually WANT to go to the wc.

Hart - Been abysmal for 3 years.
Forster - Terrible season and rightly dropped
Heaton - Decent but Injured still and not fit
Butland - Decent in a terrible side but dear god against Messi etc would get murdered
Pickford - Good but very young an inexperienced and unsure if he would be able to handle that
Pope - Outside chance but been my favourite British keeper to watch this season. I think he HAS to go to WC. Looks tall, imposing and doing very well in a solid Burnley team.
Angus Gunn. No.


Butland for me, with Pickford on his tail. Hart has had enough chances, and has been awful for Torino and West Ham. Forster is bizarre - should have been Hart's replacement, and for a decade, but has lost all form. Can't say I've noticed Heaton enough to comment. Pickford the better shot-stopper but Butland the better all-round keeper. Flip a coin really.


Pickford for me but only just. He has incredible distribution that gives him a slight edge on Butland who is ropey at times.

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Hoop Blah
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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 15 Mar 2018 14:33

I'm not totally convinced by Pickford, he appears to be another one of those keepers (a bit like Federici or Ian Walker) who make a load of decent saves but never quite have those match winning performances when it matters. He'd certainly be in my squad though.

Butland is the number 1 for me, and he needs to be given as many games as possible by Southgate between now and the WC to bed him into the side, with Pickford thrown a some time here and there to rack up his own international experience.

I'd probably still take Hart to Russia as he's been through it a few times now and, unless he'd not be a good squad member once out of the side, that experience and support for what is a pretty inexperienced squad could be quite important.


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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 15 Mar 2018 15:10

Main news worthy selections for the squad are Lewis Cook, Pope, Mawson and Tarkowski are included, and surprisingly for me Livermore keepers his place.

Oxlade-Chamberlain and Wilshire rightly recalled with Hart, and Henderson and Wellbeck included when they might've been under threat. Gary Cahill not so lucky and he's left out.

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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 15 Mar 2018 17:21

Goalkeepers

Joe Hart, Nick Pope, Jordan Pickford, Jack Butland

Defenders

Ryan Bertrand, Joe Gomez, Harry Maguire, Alfie Mawson, Danny Rose, John Stones, James Tarkowski, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

Midfielders

Dele Alli, Lewis Cook, Eric Dier, Jordan Henderson, Adam Lallana, Jesse Lingard, Jake Livermore, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jack Wilshere, Ashley Young

Forwards

Marcus Rashford, Jamie Vardy, Danny Welbeck, Raheem Sterling

completely whelming

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Re: England - the future....

by double d » 15 Mar 2018 17:23

We will be pfucked taking that team (with kane) to the wc

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 15 Mar 2018 17:38

BR0B0T wrote:Goalkeepers

Joe Hart, Nick Pope, Jordan Pickford, Jack Butland

Defenders

Ryan Bertrand, Joe Gomez, Harry Maguire, Alfie Mawson, Danny Rose, John Stones, James Tarkowski, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

Midfielders

Dele Alli, Lewis Cook, Eric Dier, Jordan Henderson, Adam Lallana, Jesse Lingard, Jake Livermore, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jack Wilshere, Ashley Young

Forwards

Marcus Rashford, Jamie Vardy, Danny Welbeck, Raheem Sterling

completely whelming


The lack of regular starters is worrying


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BR0B0T
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Re: England - the future....

by BR0B0T » 15 Mar 2018 17:46

Decent enough squad, would prolly avoid relegation if playing in the prem

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 Mar 2018 09:44

bcubed wrote:The lack of regular starters is worrying


Regular for England, or regular for their clubs?

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 16 Mar 2018 10:11

Hoop Blah wrote:
bcubed wrote:The lack of regular starters is worrying


Regular for England, or regular for their clubs?


I meant for their clubs, although with squad rotation these days it's more difficult to say how many games is regular

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 16 Mar 2018 10:17

bcubed wrote:I meant for their clubs, although with squad rotation these days it's more difficult to say how many games is regular


Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking.

Oddly, I'd say the only players in that squad that I would say aren't currently regular starters are Hart, Stones, Rose, Lallana and Rashford (you could maybe throw in Henderson, Wellbeck and Lingard I guess) and they are (were in Hart's case) some of our more reliable and nailed on to play players.


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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 19 Mar 2018 10:24

I caught a bit of the Sunday Supplement on Sky yesterday and they were bemoaning the lack of established star names and big game players etc in the England squad (which is fair comment to an extent) but is just typical of our thirst for celebrity and named performers over an effective team.

What I found a bit odd was, at the same time as belittling the claims of Pope and Tarkowski to a place in the squad (despite them both being consistent performers in the Premier League this season), they also criticised Southgate for not being bolder and bringing more of the young players who'd been part of the successful age group sides over the last few years.

Southgate has already introduced 5 or 6 of them into his squad (both previously and in this one) and did exactly that in adding Lewis Cook to this one. One name they threw in was Sancho, obviously not bothered by the fact he hasn't played for about 6 weeks!

I'm all for keeping expectations low but it seems some of the press pack are already lining up to have a pop at England...

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 19 Mar 2018 11:49

Hoop Blah wrote:I caught a bit of the Sunday Supplement on Sky yesterday and they were bemoaning the lack of established star names and big game players etc in the England squad (which is fair comment to an extent) but is just typical of our thirst for celebrity and named performers over an effective team.

What I found a bit odd was, at the same time as belittling the claims of Pope and Tarkowski to a place in the squad (despite them both being consistent performers in the Premier League this season), they also criticised Southgate for not being bolder and bringing more of the young players who'd been part of the successful age group sides over the last few years.

Southgate has already introduced 5 or 6 of them into his squad (both previously and in this one) and did exactly that in adding Lewis Cook to this one. One name they threw in was Sancho, obviously not bothered by the fact he hasn't played for about 6 weeks!

I'm all for keeping expectations low but it seems some of the press pack are already lining up to have a pop at England...


Good news doesn't sell though. The media cannot wait for Southgate to fail this summer, he's about as easy and soft of a target you'll ever find.

I don't rate Southgate in the slightest for what its worth but I am prepared to give him a tournament before I judge him.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 19 Mar 2018 12:38

Old Man Andrews wrote:Good news doesn't sell though. The media cannot wait for Southgate to fail this summer, he's about as easy and soft of a target you'll ever find.

I don't rate Southgate in the slightest for what its worth but I am prepared to give him a tournament before I judge him.


Indeed, although there would be no bigger story than England lifting the World Cup, but that's a real long shot and a one off for any of the journo's!

I really like a lot of what Southgate says and does but, as I think I said when he was appointed, he seems to say all the right things and then just lets himself down with the final execution of it. Like the early days of Sven it's kind of good to see Southgate opening the door to unfashionable and unproven players as such, I just hope that he can build a cohesive team out of them.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 19 Mar 2018 16:56

Not sure Southgate has let himself down at all yet. Two defeats - one poor performance in Germany, but a draw or even a win in France wouldn't have been a disgrace. Outside of that we've conceded just 5 times in 11 games, got decent draws with Germany and Brazil in last November's friendlies, and as you say Southgate has introduced a number of new faces to the squad (and quickly binned the old boys' culture that had seen the likes of Rooney stick around for longer than he should have).

He's doing a lot of good things - best thing that could happen (and it won't) is that he gets space to try, and even fail, in Russia. I'd sooner take the likes of say, Maguire over Cahill (based on form) and we lose in the second round than take players on reputation and go out at the same stage. Fwiw I think Southgate is one of the only managers around with the strength of mind to do that.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 20 Mar 2018 10:02

Sanguine wrote:Not sure Southgate has let himself down at all yet. Two defeats - one poor performance in Germany, but a draw or even a win in France wouldn't have been a disgrace. Outside of that we've conceded just 5 times in 11 games, got decent draws with Germany and Brazil in last November's friendlies, and as you say Southgate has introduced a number of new faces to the squad (and quickly binned the old boys' culture that had seen the likes of Rooney stick around for longer than he should have).

He's doing a lot of good things - best thing that could happen (and it won't) is that he gets space to try, and even fail, in Russia. I'd sooner take the likes of say, Maguire over Cahill (based on form) and we lose in the second round than take players on reputation and go out at the same stage. Fwiw I think Southgate is one of the only managers around with the strength of mind to do that.


My argument is he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place. He is dangerously under qualified, seriously lacks experience at club level and failed at club level.

That being said he is in charge now so there is no point in being negative about him or England at this stage. I think the quarter finals are very achieveable for England this summer.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 20 Mar 2018 11:12

Old Man Andrews wrote:My argument is he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place. He is dangerously under qualified, seriously lacks experience at club level and failed at club level.

That being said he is in charge now so there is no point in being negative about him or England at this stage. I think the quarter finals are very achieveable for England this summer.


The obvious counter to that is that club and international management are completely different and very few club managers have any experience of tournament football whereas Southgate has at least had some with the Under-21s. He's also been involved, at more of a distance admittedly, with some of the recent successes as I believe he's remained close to the age group teams throughout his time with The FA.

We've also had plenty of managers who have been successful in club football who have then failed with England and so perhaps trying something different makes sense. Conversely there have been a number of international managers who've done pretty well having taken their first steps into management with their national teams.

Having said all that, I'm not 100% convinced by Southgate. As I've said before, I agree with a lot of what he says and does but I don't have a great deal of faith in his final decision making, judgement or his x-factor in making teams work (be that motivational or tactical).

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 20 Mar 2018 11:37

Old Man Andrews wrote:
Sanguine wrote:Not sure Southgate has let himself down at all yet. Two defeats - one poor performance in Germany, but a draw or even a win in France wouldn't have been a disgrace. Outside of that we've conceded just 5 times in 11 games, got decent draws with Germany and Brazil in last November's friendlies, and as you say Southgate has introduced a number of new faces to the squad (and quickly binned the old boys' culture that had seen the likes of Rooney stick around for longer than he should have).

He's doing a lot of good things - best thing that could happen (and it won't) is that he gets space to try, and even fail, in Russia. I'd sooner take the likes of say, Maguire over Cahill (based on form) and we lose in the second round than take players on reputation and go out at the same stage. Fwiw I think Southgate is one of the only managers around with the strength of mind to do that.


My argument is he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place. He is dangerously under qualified, seriously lacks experience at club level and failed at club level.

That being said he is in charge now so there is no point in being negative about him or England at this stage. I think the quarter finals are very achieveable for England this summer.


So he failed at club level. He has done a very decent job with the u-21s, and perhaps has something other managers haven't had as a result, which is respect within the England setup as a coach, and the confidence of the younger players that he has their interests at heart. The likes of Jesse Lingard and Joe Gomez has been playing for Southgate for years - do you think they would choose to play for a different England manager?

As I said, I'm looking back over his 14 games so far, and the dull performance in Germany aside, I can't find anything to criticise.

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