England - the future....

3565 posts
User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 20 Mar 2018 10:56

Sanguine As I said, I'm looking back over his 14 games so far, and the dull performance in Germany aside, I can't find anything to criticise.


I think, like most England teams, Southgate's team has done well through qualifying and a few decent friendlies. That bit is par for the course for any England side really. What I like about Southgate is that he now looks like he's building a side and a squad to move forward with as opposed to just throwing the obvious names into a side and hoping it works out.

He's putting his neck on the line a bit, and I respect that.

The only things I'd be critical of him for are some of his illogical call ups, or perhaps more accurately replacements. I've also wondered how much the shift to the 3 at the back was just him following the trend earlier in the season but I'll absolutely give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, especially as he would've played in a back 3 a fair bit back in the day.

That's splitting hairs a bit of course, and I'm generally pretty positive and optimistic about what he's doing.

Old Man Andrews

Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 20 Mar 2018 10:58

I think his current squad sends out a couple of more messages and helps cement the popular opinion of him being too nice. There is no way Joe Hart or Jake Livermore should be in the squad, it cannot be on form or current ability. Both have had extremely poor seasons and shoudln't be playing international football, Hart especially. The fact he could go to the World Cup over Nick Pope is very worrying and sends the wrong message.

Like I said earlier I don't agree with his appointment but I am prepared to give him the World Cup to prove himself. I don't think writing him off now helps anything and fortunately the expectatons of the public and press are reasonably low.

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 20 Mar 2018 11:12

I disagree on Hart, and agree with Southgate's stance on Livermore to be honest too.

This is a set of back to back friendlies and so taking 4 keepers isn't a problem and possibly helps with the training. Yes Hart has had a tough season but Southgate needs to assess him at close quarters and, perhaps more importantly, see how he is around the squad especially if he might be taking him to Russia, but not as number 1. So much of our success will be dependant upon the squad cohesion and team spirit and so there's a good chance he's weighing up how Hart will contribute to that either way.

Without Hart we'd have 3 keepers with less than 10 caps between them. Pickford and Butland have both good experience of tournaments with the age group teams, so that's a bonus, but that lack of experience would be an issue for a squad in my opinion.

Livermore is lucky to be in the squad but as Southgate has said, it was a reward for his commitment, attitude and performances for England previously, in stark contrast to some. That's a good thing for me. We need a squad and a togetherness and treating players well will help him build that.

You can't always just pick the most in form players either. You need to balance that with building a side that are familiar with each other. That's probably where the likes of Wales and Northen Ireland have it a bit easier with their smaller pool of talent as they can become a team more easily.

Old Man Andrews

Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 20 Mar 2018 11:26

Don't necessarily disagree with your view on it just cannot ever see Livermore or Hart again being at the required level for international football, hope I am proven wrong.

One thing is for sure we need to get the job done in the group against Panama and Tunisia before we play Belgium. Hope we go in to the first two games on the front foot and dominate. I think it would have been more useful for us to play a couple of less glamourous sides in the upcoming friendlies to get used to more defensive sides who want to keep things cagey and tight like I would imagine Tunisia and Panama will want to.

Sanguine
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 24785
Joined: 27 Feb 2013 14:36

Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 20 Mar 2018 11:30

That's a good point on Livermore - kind of the reverse of the situation we had with the likes of Rooney and Gerrard and Lampard where continued poor performances for England didn't affect their being picked. Now we have Livermore who hasnt had a great time of it domestically, but as I recall as done everything asked for him in his handful of caps.

Would agree with you OMA on our group in Russia - we shouldn't go into that game with Belgium needing a win to go through.


User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 20 Mar 2018 11:34

And Livermore performs a specific role in the side too. There aren't too many alternatives around at the moment, although that doesn't seem to be why he's in the squad this time around.

I'd fancy us against Belgium by the way, but totally agree that avoiding needing a win in that 3rd game is preferable.

Old Man Andrews

Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 20 Mar 2018 11:41

Hoop Blah And Livermore performs a specific role in the side too. There aren't too many alternatives around at the moment, although that doesn't seem to be why he's in the squad this time around.

I'd fancy us against Belgium by the way, but totally agree that avoiding needing a win in that 3rd game is preferable.


Just the thought of Kevin De Bruyne running at John Stones for 90 minutes makes me break out in a cold sweat.

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 20 Mar 2018 11:48

Old Man Andrews Just the thought of Kevin De Bruyne running at John Stones for 90 minutes makes me break out in a cold sweat.


It's still the same side that lost 3-1 to Wales though. For all the individual talent they possess their results aren't all that impressive and I'm not quacking in my boots at the thought of facing them.

Old Man Andrews

Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 20 Mar 2018 11:51

Hoop Blah
Old Man Andrews Just the thought of Kevin De Bruyne running at John Stones for 90 minutes makes me break out in a cold sweat.


It's still the same side that lost 3-1 to Wales though. For all the individual talent they possess their results aren't all that impressive and I'm not quacking in my boots at the thought of facing them.


Duck off!


User avatar
bcubed
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11435
Joined: 30 Oct 2004 18:16
Location: Would do better with a stick of rhubarb

Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 20 Mar 2018 23:52

Old Man Andrews
Hoop Blah And Livermore performs a specific role in the side too. There aren't too many alternatives around at the moment, although that doesn't seem to be why he's in the squad this time around.

I'd fancy us against Belgium by the way, but totally agree that avoiding needing a win in that 3rd game is preferable.


Just the thought of Kevin De Bruyne running at John Stones for 90 minutes makes me break out in a cold sweat.


Yep

I agree with HBs assessment of Southgate and the squad but in contrast with what others have said in another thread I still think we are vulnerable in defence

double d

Re: England - the future....

by double d » 21 Mar 2018 07:04

If you compare our squad against the top teams, it is very weak in comparison.

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 21 Mar 2018 21:17

I wouldn't necessarily disagree that our squad looks weak or lacking in defensive qualities etc, especially if judging on reputation and past achievement as opposed to potential, but you only have to look at how Dyche has got Burnley and the likes of Tarkowski (and Keane before him) playing to see how organisation and discipline can make a huge difference.

double d

Re: England - the future....

by double d » 21 Mar 2018 22:51

Hoop Blah I wouldn't necessarily disagree that our squad looks weak or lacking in defensive qualities etc, especially if judging on reputation and past achievement as opposed to potential, but you only have to look at how Dyche has got Burnley and the likes of Tarkowski (and Keane before him) playing to see how organisation and discipline can make a huge difference.


Very true but it will end up being the same thing. Eother we will start stones and cahill with hart in goal because they are the names and We will lose.

Or he will go with his own instinct and pick pope, tarkowski and livermore and the press will vilify him and make him a scapegoat.


User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 23 Mar 2018 09:08

Unfortunately it turns out Wilshire is injured and so isn't travelling to Amsterdam for tonight's game.

That's a bit of a blow, and bad timing, considering Southgate's reservations about him and Wilshire's much better fitness record this season. I hope it doesn't prevent him from playing and playing well on Tuesday night.

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 23 Mar 2018 19:20

A slightly odd looking team selection.

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Gomez
Trippier
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Rose
Sterling
Lingard
Rashford

All those centre backs and it looks like he's playing Walker as one of the 3 at the back.

double d

Re: England - the future....

by double d » 23 Mar 2018 19:28

Hoop Blah A slightly odd looking team selection.

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Gomez
Trippier
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Rose
Sterling
Lingard
Rashford

All those centre backs and it looks like he's playing Walker as one of the 3 at the back.


I think it is 352 with rose and walker at wb's.

I think.

After watching stams selections this season, this seems a mirror image to it.

User avatar
Hoop Blah
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 13937
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:00
Location: I told you so.....

Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 23 Mar 2018 20:19

Nope, Walker at centre half.

After the first half hour I like what they're doing and have to say the Stones/Henderson partnership at the centre of things is working really nicely, albeit without too much pressure on them so far.

double d

Re: England - the future....

by double d » 23 Mar 2018 20:29

I do like that Southgate seems to have balls and be unafraid to mix things up. I cannot remember a single manager for England who has done that.

User avatar
bcubed
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11435
Joined: 30 Oct 2004 18:16
Location: Would do better with a stick of rhubarb

Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 23 Mar 2018 21:17

Good confident performance. Deserved lead. Not sure why the penalty wasn't given either.

Lingard impressed me again. Never has a bad game for England

AthleticoSpizz
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23971
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 19:49
Location: A Hicks Hoof from Coley Park

Re: England - the future....

by AthleticoSpizz » 23 Mar 2018 21:53

90 minutes of ok-ish

3565 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bcubed and 74 guests

It is currently 28 Mar 2024 10:30