England - the future....

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: England - the future....

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Sep 2018 21:41

The gap between the Championship and quite a lot of national sides also isn't that big, except when it is, like when the Championship is much better.

It's in the top 10 European leagues for sure.

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Sutekh
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Re: England - the future....

by Sutekh » 23 Sep 2018 07:45

Snowflake Royal The gap between the Championship and quite a lot of national sides also isn't that big, except when it is, like when the Championship is much better.

It's in the top 10 European leagues for sure.


Financially aren’t the PL, La Liga, Bundesleague and Serie A the only leagues ahead of it?

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: England - the future....

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Sep 2018 10:42

Sutekh
Snowflake Royal The gap between the Championship and quite a lot of national sides also isn't that big, except when it is, like when the Championship is much better.

It's in the top 10 European leagues for sure.


Financially aren’t the PL, La Liga, Bundesleague and Serie A the only leagues ahead of it?

Not sure these days, it was 8th a few years ago. Russia and France were ahead too at that time.

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Re: England - the future....

by Kulshaw72RFC » 25 Sep 2018 08:25

Snowflake Royal
Sutekh
Snowflake Royal The gap between the Championship and quite a lot of national sides also isn't that big, except when it is, like when the Championship is much better.

It's in the top 10 European leagues for sure.


Financially aren’t the PL, La Liga, Bundesleague and Serie A the only leagues ahead of it?

Not sure these days, it was 8th a few years ago. Russia and France were ahead too at that time.


In terms of audience at grounds I think the Championship is top 5?

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 04 Oct 2018 14:51

Hoop Blah
Sutekh Apparently Gareth Southgate was at the Derby v Blackburn game last night. Wonder if there might be a surprise in the next England squad - Mason Mount perhaps?


I doubt it, it's still a bit early for that. I'm sure Southgate is keeping tabs on a lot of the younger players coming through.


Well, Mason Mount has indeed made it into the squad for the Croatia and Spain games.

There's also first call ups for James Maddison (fresh out of the Championship of course) and Jadon Sancho. Ross Barkley and Harry Winks get recalls.

Interesting.


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Re: England - the future....

by Zammo » 04 Oct 2018 14:54

England squad to face Croatia & Spain

Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Ross Barkley (Chelsea), Marcus Bettinelli (Fulham), Jack Butland (Stoke City), Nathaniel Chalobah (Watford), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), James Maddison (Leicester City), Harry Maguire (Leicester City), Alex McCarthy (Southampton), Mason Mount (on loan at Derby County from Chelsea), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), John Stones (Manchester City), James Tarkowski (Burnley), Kieran Trippier (Tottenham Hotspur), Kyle Walker (Manchester City), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal), Harry Winks (Tottenham Hotspur)

:shock:

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 04 Oct 2018 15:00

I like Southgate. I'd much rather this - players getting picked on form and promise - than where we've been before with the same old faces all the time. He also understands the importance of integrating young players into the senior setup. It's unlikely Sancho or Mount will get many (or any) minutes, but just training with the squad and being around the England senior team is another step for them.

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Re: England - the future....

by Kulshaw72RFC » 04 Oct 2018 15:40

Zammo England squad to face Croatia & Spain

Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Ross Barkley (Chelsea), Marcus Bettinelli (Fulham), Jack Butland (Stoke City), Nathaniel Chalobah (Watford), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), James Maddison (Leicester City), Harry Maguire (Leicester City), Alex McCarthy (Southampton), Mason Mount (on loan at Derby County from Chelsea), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), John Stones (Manchester City), James Tarkowski (Burnley), Kieran Trippier (Tottenham Hotspur), Kyle Walker (Manchester City), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal), Harry Winks (Tottenham Hotspur)

:shock:


Marcus Bettinelli?

Good lord that team looks awful. Interesting he has gone for 4 keepers.... maybe will start to rotate them. Unsure why Harry Winks has merited a place, have not seen him too much for a while.

HOWEVER..........

I do agree with Sanguine. I prefer players that are young and hungry being picked (with an eye for Euro 202 or WC 2022) I assume, rather then being loyal to big name players.

Sancho tbf does deserve it.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 04 Oct 2018 16:14

As much as 'we didn't beat a big team' at the World Cup, that side that reached the SFs, who are all in the squad I think, is far from 'awful', it's a very good team. That's what I find exciting about these squads - that the likes of Winks and Sancho etc will be supplementing those players. I think I mentioned this once before, but of the team that started the World Cup semi-final, only Walker (32), Trippier (31) and Henderson (32) will be over 30 at the next World Cup. And we already have replacements at the back in Gomez and Alexander Arnold integrated in the squad.

Dare I say it, but it's all very.....German of us. They have built their success on an almost constant revolution of the fringes of their squad so that when players lose form or retire, there is someone with 20-30 caps already who can take their place.


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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Oct 2018 09:30

I like the squad, it is brave and progressive.

Bettinelli has no business being near it though. How he is keeping Sergio Rico out at Fulham is beyond me.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 05 Oct 2018 10:13

Old Man Andrews I like the squad, it is brave and progressive.

Bettinelli has no business being near it though. How he is keeping Sergio Rico out at Fulham is beyond me.


How much do you actually watch of Fulham? He is an excellent keeper. Their defensive problems this season have been first, having an entirely new back four, and second, that through injuries that new back four hasn't had a chance to bed in. Bettinelli has been keeping Fulham afloat.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Oct 2018 10:15

Sanguine
Old Man Andrews I like the squad, it is brave and progressive.

Bettinelli has no business being near it though. How he is keeping Sergio Rico out at Fulham is beyond me.


How much do you actually watch of Fulham? He is an excellent keeper. Their defensive problems this season have been first, having an entirely new back four, and second, that through injuries that new back four hasn't had a chance to bed in. Bettinelli has been keeping Fulham afloat.


I have seen him a lot and I am somewhat of a goalkeeping expert so I know exactly what I am talking about thanks. He is nowhere near good enough to be an international goalkeeper.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 05 Oct 2018 10:25

Old Man Andrews
I have seen him a lot and I am somewhat of a goalkeeping expert.


Well I can't possibly argue against that weight of evidence. :lol:


Old Man Andrews

Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Oct 2018 11:10

Sanguine
Old Man Andrews
I have seen him a lot and I am somewhat of a goalkeeping expert.


Well I can't possibly argue against that weight of evidence. :lol:


You asked how much I have seen Fulham, the answer is a lot. What more did you want from that question?

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 05 Oct 2018 11:17

Old Man Andrews
Sanguine
Old Man Andrews
I have seen him a lot and I am somewhat of a goalkeeping expert.


Well I can't possibly argue against that weight of evidence. :lol:


You asked how much I have seen Fulham, the answer is a lot. What more did you want from that question?


An explanation as to why (in your expert goalkeeping knowledge) Bettinelli should be 'nowhere near' the England squad. To the goalkeeping layman, he appears to be an excellent shot-stopper, commands his area and is good with his feet. You can count his major errors, ever, on one hand.

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Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Oct 2018 11:28

Sanguine
Old Man Andrews
Sanguine
Well I can't possibly argue against that weight of evidence. :lol:


You asked how much I have seen Fulham, the answer is a lot. What more did you want from that question?


An explanation as to why (in your expert goalkeeping knowledge) Bettinelli should be 'nowhere near' the England squad. To the goalkeeping layman, he appears to be an excellent shot-stopper, commands his area and is good with his feet. You can count his major errors, ever, on one hand.


I can count his lack of big match experience though. Maybe you are spot on and he does all of the things you say but it is far, far too early for a call up after 5 Premier League games. The third goalkeeper should have been Joe Hart who has really come back well from a poor season in 2017/18.

All I can say in terms of what my knowledge is that I played in goal for over 20 years at a reasonable level and have an FA level 2 qualification in goalkeeping. My son who I have coached from a very young age is with a Premier League academy side so I probably know what I am talking about to a degree.

I could go into naming coaches who I know that have worked with him but I won't. He was very nearly not offered a professional deal. His father Vic Bettinelli swung it for him as he is a coach at Fulham, it was more of a case of who you know rather than talent. I am not saying he is an awful goalkeeper, just saying he should be having to do way more to prove himself before getting the call up.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sanguine » 05 Oct 2018 11:31

Old Man Andrews
Sanguine
Old Man Andrews
You asked how much I have seen Fulham, the answer is a lot. What more did you want from that question?


An explanation as to why (in your expert goalkeeping knowledge) Bettinelli should be 'nowhere near' the England squad. To the goalkeeping layman, he appears to be an excellent shot-stopper, commands his area and is good with his feet. You can count his major errors, ever, on one hand.


I can count his lack of big match experience though. Maybe you are spot on and he does all of the things you say but it is far, far too early for a call up after 5 Premier League games. The third goalkeeper should have been Joe Hart who has really come back well from a poor season in 2017/18.

All I can say in terms of what my knowledge is that I played in goal for over 20 years at a reasonable level and have an FA level 2 qualification in goalkeeping. My son who I have coached from a very young age is with a Premier League academy side so I probably know what I am talking about to a degree.

I could go into naming coaches who I know that have worked with him but I won't. He was very nearly not offered a professional deal. His father Vic Bettinelli swung it for him as he is a coach at Fulham, it was more of a case of who you know rather than talent. I am not saying he is an awful goalkeeper, just saying he should be having to do way more to prove himself before getting the call up.


Thanks. So, yes, lack of big match experience, but for all your goalkeeping knowledge you haven't actually explained why that means he shouldn't be near the England squad. You suggested he had a fundamental problem with technique or something. He's been at Fulham 8 years now, so I'd argue that the means by which he came by a contract are somewhat irrelevant.

Old Man Andrews

Re: England - the future....

by Old Man Andrews » 05 Oct 2018 11:40

Sanguine
Old Man Andrews
Sanguine
An explanation as to why (in your expert goalkeeping knowledge) Bettinelli should be 'nowhere near' the England squad. To the goalkeeping layman, he appears to be an excellent shot-stopper, commands his area and is good with his feet. You can count his major errors, ever, on one hand.


I can count his lack of big match experience though. Maybe you are spot on and he does all of the things you say but it is far, far too early for a call up after 5 Premier League games. The third goalkeeper should have been Joe Hart who has really come back well from a poor season in 2017/18.

All I can say in terms of what my knowledge is that I played in goal for over 20 years at a reasonable level and have an FA level 2 qualification in goalkeeping. My son who I have coached from a very young age is with a Premier League academy side so I probably know what I am talking about to a degree.

I could go into naming coaches who I know that have worked with him but I won't. He was very nearly not offered a professional deal. His father Vic Bettinelli swung it for him as he is a coach at Fulham, it was more of a case of who you know rather than talent. I am not saying he is an awful goalkeeper, just saying he should be having to do way more to prove himself before getting the call up.


Thanks. So, yes, lack of big match experience, but for all your goalkeeping knowledge you haven't actually explained why that means he shouldn't be near the England squad. You suggested he had a fundamental problem with technique or something. He's been at Fulham 8 years now, so I'd argue that the means by which he came by a contract are somewhat irrelevant.


That is the main reason he shouldn't be in the England squad at this time. 5 Premier League games are simply not enough at the highest level for a goalkeeper. Play it safe for now and put an in form Joe Hart in the squad whilst keeping an eye on Bettinelli. If he continues to keep Sergio Rico out until Christmas and is playing well then great, include him and even play him should he be in better form than Pickford.

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Re: England - the future....

by Hoop Blah » 05 Oct 2018 13:29

Old Man Andrews I can count his lack of big match experience though. Maybe you are spot on and he does all of the things you say but it is far, far too early for a call up after 5 Premier League games. The third goalkeeper should have been Joe Hart who has really come back well from a poor season in 2017/18.


That totally overlooks why he's in the squad and why Joe Hart isn't.

Southgate knows exactly what Hart can do and, like many other managers, has said it's not worth taking an experienced player like Hart along to be 3rd or 4th choice. For starters it's a bit of a waste of their time and, more importantly, you're not learning anything and not planning for the future.

By taking an inexperienced, yet up and coming keeper, you get a chance to suss them out and give them a sighter of what they'll require in order to push to be better whilst making up the numbers in training.

If, by some twist of fate, Pickford and Butland were unavailable for this squad I'd hazard a guess that Hart would've been picked as number one and not McCarthy or Bettinelli.

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Re: England - the future....

by John Smith » 05 Oct 2018 14:45

If he's taking 4 keepers then I'd have taken the Brighton keeper instead.

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